would it be possible for blue and red states to separate?

Author: PaulVerliane ,

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  • PaulVerliane
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    Because i really want a divorce, i think without the subsidy from wealthy blue state red states would collapse and realize we had it right all along
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    You've got some things wrong here.

    To start with, wealth is always going to be concentrated in urban areas. Urban areas tend to vote for leftist parties. This is a correlative relationship, not a causative one. An area which was previously rural, conservative, and poor might very well become more liberal as it became richer and more urbanized.
    There are several reasons for this, but one is that richer people, especially those concentrated in cities who made their wealth in the service or administrative sectors, as opposed to resource extraction, have a greater desire to be a part of the "in crowd" which controls most of the levers of society and which in America has traditionally ascribed to a paternalistic, neoliberal, quasi-imperialistic ideology that is socially left wing.
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    Second:

    The less-urbanized "interior" provides big cities with something they desperately need to sustain growth.
    You see, talented and ambitious people migrate to cities from the interior because, as central commercial hubs, these places are best suited to provide them with the resources and connections to realize (or attempt to realize) their dreams.
    This brain drain fuels cities and more than makes up for however much they pay in subsidies through federal taxes.
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    Third:

    I am from the South. Not, say, Virginia. No. Virginians are carpetbaggers. When I say "South" I mean the deep South. The Gulf Coast region, to be more specific. This is one of the poorest regions in America.
    And yet, where I live the vast majority of people are decently well off by American standards. They have well-maintained homes and all the luxuries that Americans take for granted. In fact, there's only one "bad part of town" (that I know of) where people live in visibly shoddy homes, and it's a neighborhood predominantly inhabited by *ahem* ethnic minorities.

    That is to say, Red States, while perhaps not usually as well off, are clearly part of the First World. Hence, they would not "collapse" without subsidies.
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    Fourth:

    Speaking of ethnic minorities, a disproportionate sum of poverty is non-white. Or, more specifically, black and Hispanic. Both groups seem to be disproportionately concentrated in red states.
    Vermont, one of the most liberal states in the union, is overwhelmingly white.


    THIS right here greatly contributes to the "blue states are rich, red states are poor" narrative, though of course it doesn't completely explain it away.
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Swagnarok
    excuse me you do realize california and new york are very multi cultural right?
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Swagnarok
    your backward racist anti government mentality keeps you poor and unhealthy
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Swagnarok
    so you are basically from the third world?
  • Imabench
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    I dont think it would be possible. 

    If all the Blue states were in the east and all the red states were in the west then maybe it would be possible, could be divided along the Mississippi river if it aligned that way, but the reality is that the states are jumbled all over the place. The west coast is Blue, the east coast is blue but only in the northern part of the east, then there's a big patch of red in the 'old south' that extends into the midwest, but then New Mexico and Colorado are carved out of it and are now pretty blue, and then there's Illinois in the middle north that is unshakably blue as well.... On top of that there's also a lot of hugely important states that are right smack in between blue and red. Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Pennsylvania all come to mind, Ohio used to be one but now its leaning towards the Red..... Then when we get into shifting we have Georgia, Maine, Texas, and Arizona all showing shifts....

    There's just no way that a clean Red/Blue divide could be undertaken to have a Blue US and a Red US.... Maybe if a few states broke away on their own that could happen, but a clean Red/Blue split just wont go down. 
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Imabench
    alsaka and hawaii do okay
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    You're right about California. New York is 58% non-Hispanic white, which by blue state standards is pretty good. But how about the rest? Let's take a peak.

    Maine (2010): 94.4% non-Hispanic white
    New Hampshire (2010): 92.3%
    Vermont (2013): 94.3%
    Massachusetts (2014): 73.7%
    Rhode Island (2014): 76.4%
    Connecticut (2010): 71.2%
    New Jersey (2011): 58.9%
    New York (2010): 58.3℅
    Maryland (2017): 41.6%
    Delaware (2010): 65.3℅
    Washington D.C. (2017): 36.8℅
    Virginia (2018): 62℅
    Washington state (2017): 57.9℅
    Oregon (2012): 77.8%
    California (2016): 37.7℅
    Nevada (2016): 51.3℅
    Colorado (2010): 70%
    New Mexico (2017): 27.4℅
    Minnesota (2017): 79℅ or greater
    Illinois (2010): 63.7℅

    These are all places/districts Hillary won in 2016. All but four (and one of these four isn't even a state) have majority white populations, and mind you, I used a more strict definition of white to get these results. Of these 20 listed, 9 have a non-Hispanic white majority of 70℅ or greater.
  • Swagnarok
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    Whoops, forgot Hawaii, at 26.7% in 2015.
  • Swagnarok
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    Mississippi (2010): 58%
    Alabama (2010): 67℅
    Louisiana (2010): 59.3℅
    Florida (2010): 57.9℅
    Georgia (2010): 55.9℅
    Arkansas (2010): 74.2℅
    Tennessee (2010): 66.3℅
    South Carolina (2017): 63.8℅
    North Carolina (2010): 65.3℅
    Oklahoma (2010): 68.7℅
    Texas (2010): 45.3%

    Please note I haven't listed every state Trump won, only southern states Trump won. But the South is less white than the North, as only one southern state exceeded the 70℅ threshold.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    NO be united
  • PaulVerliane
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    i think if california got a hold of some nukes we could negotiate a way out of this mess
  • ethang5
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    The only way now would be civil war. And in America, civil war is possible only if our military fights itself.

    Like if the Army and the Navy were on different sides. The US actually has 3 full armies, so a coup or civil war is virtually impossible.

    But Sensible Americans will one day have to remove themselves from the America that wants to drown in illegal aliens and terrorists.

    Either divorce or die with them.

    If California wanted to go, I would let them. They would return begging to be let back into the union after they got tired of being a 3rd world hell hole.
  • PaulVerliane
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    the rich astates with all the people are going to have to put the red states under martial law if you wont allow secession, its up to you
  • PaulVerliane
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    then we will rule over you
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    IF a civil way happens, remember who owns the guns
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    i do losers n his letter, Washington wrote, “I am wearied to death all day with a variety of perplexing circumstances, disturbed at the conduct of the militia, whose behavior and want of discipline has done great injury to the other troops, who never had officers, except in a few instances, worth the bread they eat.” Washington added, “In confidence I tell you that I never was in such an unhappy, divided state since I was born.”  https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/washington-blames-militia-for-problems  https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/whiskey-rebellion/ the blue states have all the money goober we can buy an army of mercs
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    WHAT would happen to swing states Like Florida or Iowa
  • PaulVerliane
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    i think ideally every state would be allowed to do as it pleased once the usa is dissolved states would be free to form new confederations according to the wishes of their citizens un coerced
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    i think ideally every state would be allowed to do as it pleased once the usa is dissolved states would be free to form new confederations according to the wishes of their citizens un coerced
    but some states are democratic and republican. Are you proposing that New York city be different than Upstate NY because of political differences?

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    I think USA should be separated into mini kingdoms  of politics instead of states like this-https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/PVI_in_US_Congressional_Districts.png
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @PaulVerliane
    For example, all of Georgia would be Republican and its own kingdom but Atlanta and the three districts for that city would be a dem kingdom