The Empty Tomb Enigma

Author: Stephen ,

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  • Stephen
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    Stephen
    Matthew 28:8-9 King James Version
    8 And they [the women] departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

    And Luke appears to be  supporting Matthew version ;

    Luke 24:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 And [the women] returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

    So good so far, until ,that is, we read Marks version of events.


    Mark 16:8 King James Version (KJV)8 
    8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

    It is also interesting to note here the massive contradiction from Matthew (28:9) above where he tells of the women holding Jesus' feet.  

    These Gospel writers just cannot seem to get it together , can they?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Stephen
    No enigma, just Chinese whispers.
  • disgusted
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    disgusted
    In a book of fiction you will always find fiction, why be surprised?
  • BrotherDThomas
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    BrotherDThomas
    --> @ethang5 @Stephen


    Stephen, the Hell Bound Atheist,

    Yes, the passages you have quoted upon Jesus' 3 day tomb nap are contradicting.  As a TRUE Christian, and not a fake one where the majority are held in this vein at DEBATEART, I accept biblical contradictions and easily move on because the "hook" of Christianity, is an eventful afterlife. 

    I am sure you will agree that the last one that needs to be within your revealing thread, is the ever so ignorant minion of Satan, Ethang5!  I have had to "Bible Slap" this FAKE Christian silly, and of which, he must in a deviant way like it because he continues to return with yet another runaway stance to my posts!  

    Furthermore, what always disturbed me relative to the main topic of your initial post, as a TRUE Christian, is the fact that Jesus never really died, because He arose on the 3rd day. Therefore, the logic that Jesus has given me, a 3 day "tomb nap" is not really an assumed "sacrifice!"  As you being an Atheist, I am sure you would agree that for a true sacrifice, one remains dead, therefore, Jesus truly didn't die to save the sins of the world because He continued to live!


    .





  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    Here are more questions you can run from Cletus.

    neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
    Does this mean they never spoke to anyone ever again, or that they said nothing to anyone at the grave site or on the way back home?

    You stupidly want it to be that they never spoke to anyone ever again. Where is your brain?

    Or do you think that when atheists who don't even know the bible agree with you, that means you're right?

    Your "contradictions" are lame, and only highlight your poor reading comprehension and low integrity.

    The account in Mark ends with them leaving the tomb having spoken to no one, the other accounts follow them to later when they tell the others after they get back home.

    Where is the contradiction? In your mind only, because you're too dull to read properly, and assume too much.

    OK. I'm done, you can dodge and repost your lame post now.
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Out of curiosity, are there any true Christians other than yourself? Are there any public figures who are true Christians?
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Deb-8-a-bull
    Make sure you guys don't accidentally rattle of what type of Christian you are. 

    No its all good , I've been around long enough to know what you lot mean When you say  " REAL CHRISTIAN "  it's one of them ( Latter-day saints ) right?

    Good game.
    Good game.


  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @SirAnonymous



    YOUR QUOTE THAT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS: "Out of curiosity, are there any true Christians other than yourself? Are there any public figures who are true Christians?"

    No.



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  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Oh boy i feel dumb .
    I meant ( Anglo-nubians ) 
    When you say,   " Real Christians "  you mean ( Anglo-nubians ) right ?
    I can't believe i said a 7th dayer. Sorry about that.
        
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Thanks for the answer. You're the only true Christian, then?
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5

    Ethang5,

    You continue to remove one foot to insert the other, WHY?

    YOUR WANTING QUOTE: "Does this mean they never spoke to anyone ever again, or that they said nothing to anyone at the grave site or on the way back home?"

    1. You made a claim, and to use your position towards others that you embarrassingly continue to run away from in other threads, prove your claim above, but this time, do it within the scriptures because your ungodly weak opinions are NOT to be counted, understood, bible ignorant fool?


    Furthermore, can you help me BIBLICALLY, and with no Satanic "opinions" once again, the seemingly blatant contradictions hereof?

    2.  There first came to the tomb on Sunday morning
         a. one woman (John 20:1)
         b. two women (Matt. 28:1)
         c. three women (Mark 16:1)
         d. more than three women (Luke 23:55-56; 24:1,10)


    You may begin on both propositions to the members of DEBATEART. (Psst, you have yet to address your other embarrassing statements that I have given you in the threads in question in your "Latest Activities" link. Hmmmmmm, wonder why?)



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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @SirAnonymous




    .
    SirAnonymous,

    YOUR QUOTE: "Thanks for the answer. You're the only true Christian, then?"

    Yes. You will look far and wide to find a TRUE Christian with my modus operandi relative to the JUDEO-Christian Bible.

    In turn, you don't have to look far for an UNTRUE Christian, because this is explicitly shown ad infinitum with the minion of Satan, ethang5!  



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  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Thanks for answering!
  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    You continue to remove one foot....
    Don't you have any new material? Your silliness gets old fast. Stop telling us your opinion and post something sensible for a change dee dee.

    Does this mean they never spoke to anyone ever again, or that they said nothing to anyone at the grave site or on the way back home?"
    Answer the question great Christian who talks to Jesus. Just like the fake Stephen, you can post the question, but will run away from answering it.

    Hey genius, if you post the question, you look like a loser when you dodge it. If you're going to run away from answering, don't post the question. Yeesh.

    2.  There first came to the tomb on Sunday morning
         a. one woman (John 20:1)
         b. two women (Matt. 28:1)
         c. three women (Mark 16:1)
         d. more than three women (Luke 23:55-56; 24:1,10)
    Let me give you something you can run from too.

    Do you know the Gospels were written independently of each other?
    Did you know each one has a focuses on specific people?
    Did you know each gospel is the account of a specific person?

    Of course you don't. The internet allows basically ignorant bumpkins to have a voice. Consider this.

    From Union Jack to Stars and Stripes
    Pub: 1820. Page 39 - "...but how would 17 stars look on such a flag? To this author, anything more than 15 would be unseemly".

    The American Cauldron
    Pub: 1849. Page 126 - "...the american flag has 48 stars..."

    Was Alaska Worth It?
    Pub: 1984. Page 97 - "...at first rejected a flag with 50 stars, before being convinced by an actual flag..."

    How many stars are there on the flag?

    Ignorant bumpkins would call this a contradiction. Especially if I printed all 3 in one volume called "The Bible".

    Please, you say you speak to Jesus who was at that tomb. As Him instead of posting garbage that expose your ignorance.
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5


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    ethang5,

    You ran away once again from proposition #1 in my post #11, as usual, with another one of your child like ruses of: "answering a question by asking a question!  WOW, that took a lot of what brain cells you have left, huh?  As if we've never see that ruse before that only the totally inept of biblical knowledge use like you use on a continued basis. Therefore you have drastically failed once again!


    Since you RAN AWAY from who came to the tomb on Sunday morning, let's try this once again where before you gave really inept comparisons that DID NOT address the blatant contradictions, but only made you look like the biblical fool that you truly are!  This act of yours of totally evading the questions at hand is the reason why so many here on DEBATEART totally "OWN YOU!"  LOL!

    Answer, BY USING THE BIBLE, and not your sophomoric opinions, in why the following is NOT a contradiction this time and leave the comical and ambiguous flag analogies, etc, out of the equation this time to save further embarrassment, understood?  I told you that your inept opinions DO NOT take precedent over Jesus' true words, get it?

    There first came to the tomb on Sunday morning
         a. one woman (John 20:1)
         b. two women (Matt. 28:1)
         c. three women (Mark 16:1)
         d. more than three women (Luke 23:55-56; 24:1,10)

     The membership is watching, READY? BEGIN!



    .

  • Stephen
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Yes, the passages you have quoted upon Jesus' 3 day tomb nap are contradicting.
    I appreciate your candor.

    I accept biblical contradictions. 
    That is refreshing to hear. Although I will admit , I do get some enjoyment watching many believers stutter and stumble, lie and cheat, and attempt to completely re-write these scriptures in a vain attempt to explain away what are clear contradictions.

    Ethang5!  I have had to "Bible Slap" this FAKE Christian silly,
    Slap away brother. I do find your jousts with ethang amusing at times.


    Furthermore, what always disturbed me relative to the main topic of your initial post, as a TRUE Christian, is the fact that Jesus never really died,

    I agree completely. Jesus didn't die and neither did Lazarus. They were both a  death of initiation and not physical eternal  death. And in my opinion, the bible itself actually proves this to be the case.


      As you being an Atheist,
    In all honesty brother, I am not sure how someone such as yourself would describe  me. I happen to believe these scriptures and believe all these biblical characters existed. I look at them in an historical sense and don't have a 'religious' bone in my body. I believe these scriptures are trying to tell us something , I also believe they are also hiding something. I believe there is a truer story below the surface of these scriptures that,  for whatever reason simply couldn't be told openly at the time. For example, from my own research and understanding, I have good reason to believe the Baptist and Jesus were half brothers and serious rivals. I believe Jesus had a hand in the baptists death. 


     I am sure you would agree that for a true sacrifice, one remains dead, therefore, Jesus truly didn't die to save the sins of the world because He continued to live!

     You are correct. I do agree.
      

  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
    Does this mean they never spoke to anyone ever again,

    It doesn't say does it. And we cannot start arguing over what the scriptures DON'T say, can we. Or are you attempting another rewrite of these biblical documents by inserting something of your own in a pitiful attempt to explain away yet another blinding contradiction from the writers of these gospels?

    What is does do though is CONTRADICT both Mark & Luke. Matthew 28:8-9 King James Version
    8 And they [the women] departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

    And Luke appears to be  supporting Matthew version ;

    Luke 24:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 And [the women] returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto t
    Keep trying sunshine. 
  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    You ran away once again from proposition #1 in my post #11,
    Hey dee dee, as I told you, you're just some dweeb on the net who claims to speak to God. Your propositions mean nothing. I can blow them off.

    Don't just call my rebuttal an "inept comparison" without explaining. No one is here for your opinions.

    Just as my posting different numbers of stars on our flag does not mean a contradiction, neither does you posting different numbers of women at the tomb mean a contradiction.

    Why is it a contradiction dee dee? No one here is going to take you on faith. Say something intelligent.

    let's try this once again 
    No sir. You can play stupid on your own time. Address my rebuttal and answer my questions. If you cannot, say so.

    I told you that your inept opinions DO NOT take precedent over Jesus' true words, get it?
    Jesus saw no contradiction, and He was there. I gave no opinion, I posted fact and asked you a question. You dodged.

    Did you think you wouldn't have to answer any questions about your post? Did you believe simply posting a verse was enough? Buy a clue dee dee.

    The membership is watching
    So is Jesus, to whom you claim to speak.
  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
    Does this mean they never spoke to anyone ever again?

    It doesn't say does it.
    I'm asking you what the verse you offered means. Do you know?

    And we cannot start arguing over what the scriptures DON'T say, can we.
    No one asked you what scripture doesn't say. I'm asking what what the verse you offered means. Surely the verse means something. How can you call it a contradiction if you don't know what it means?

    Or are you attempting another rewrite of these biblical documents by inserting something of your own..
    All I've done is ask you what what the verse you offered means. Stop running and tell us what the verse means.

    You seem to be stupidly saying that the women never spoke to anyone ever again. Could you be that dense?

    What is does do though is CONTRADICT both Mark & Luke. Matthew 28:8-9 King James Version
    How? You can't even say what the verse means. I've given you a resolution, you pretend you don't see it. I ask you a question, you dodge it. Why?

    You want your claim accepted without question?

    If you won't answer questions about your claim of a contradiction, and cannot tell us what the verses you offered mean, I can blow off your claim as the babbling of a moron.

    Stop telling us your opinion and post something sensible for a change, instead of reposting your already debunked claim.
  • Stephen
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    I'm asking what what the verse you offered means.

    I offered three verses. Where one gospel writer contradicts the  another two regardless of what it means to me. It is what they say and how they contradict one another  that concerns me, and not what I believe they say or imagine what they are saying. Stop trying to divert by asking my thoughts. I have told you clearly that they DO contradict one another. THAT IS WHAT THEY MEAN TO ME!
  • ethang5
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    I offered three verses. Where one gospel writer contradicts the  another two regardless of what it means to me.
    How can you know there is a contradiction unless you know what the verses mean? Is your claim not that the contradiction is in the meaning?


    It is what they say and how they contradict one another  that concerns me,
    So tell us what they say.

    ..and not what I believe they say or imagine what they are saying.
    You seem to believe Mark says the women never spoke to anyone ever again. That is the only way you could stupidly think it contradicts Matthew and Luke.

    You're asking us to just accept your claim that there is a contradiction. What IS that contradiction? Why can't you spell it out?

    Because you know there is no contradiction. That's why I've had to shame you into this convo. That's why you dodge.

    Stop trying to divert by asking my thoughts.
    You THINK the verses contradict. It is your poor thinking that makes you believe the verses contradict. I must show you your thoughts are illogical.

    I have told you clearly that they DO contradict one another. 
    And I have told you that they don't. What I've also done is shown you why they do not contradict. You have not shown us why they contradict. You seem to think just your saying they do, means they do.

    Any idiot can say anything. Show the contradiction. If you cannot, say so.

    THAT IS WHAT THEY MEAN TO ME
    Atheist with article. To what does the word "that" in your comment above refer?

    What it means to the author is the important thing. You thinking it is a contradiction means nothing to reality.

    Show us what the author meant in Mark, and then tell us how that contradicts what is meant in Matthew or Luke.

    Or you can run away and repost your debunked spam again. Your choice.
  • Stephen
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    How can you know there is a contradiction unless you know what the verses mean? 

    Words sunshine, that's how. One verse says different words to the other words written in the other two verses. Or are you yet again going to put your own words and interpretations into the mouths of these Gospel writers in a vain attempt  to prove that they do not contradict one another.

    They CLEARLY contradict one another.   One gospeller writes that the women didn't tell anyone what it was they had witnessed at the empty tome  and gives a reason why they didn't. yet two other gospellers claim that they did speak of their experience. Why are you denying this fact. 

    Stop trying to bury these contradictory verses with stalling and filibustering and either explain them or simply admit that they are indeed what they are and always will remain: CONTRADICTIONS!

    You THINK the verses contradict. 

    No. I know they do contradict one another , REGARDLESS of what I may or may not think.


    Matthew 28:8-9 King James Version
    8 And they [the women] departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

    And Luke appears to be  supporting Matthew version ;

    Luke 24:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 And [the women] returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

    So good so far, until ,that is, we read Marks version of events.


    Mark 16:8 King James Version (KJV)8 
    8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

    It is also interesting to note here the massive contradiction from Matthew (28:9) above where he tells of the women holding Jesus' feet.  

    These Gospel writers just cannot seem to get it together , can they?
     



  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    How can you know there is a contradiction unless you know what the verses mean? 

    Words sunshine, that's how.
    The meaning is in how the words are used and the order in which they are placed Shemp, not just in the words alone. Here, I'll show you.

    My mother's car business ran over my bag and cracked the glass driver Wednesday taught all last summer how to buy.

    Wednesday my last driver taught mother's glass how to buy the cracked summer car bag and ran my business over all.

    Same words, different meaning.

    One verse says different words to the other words written in the other two verses. 
    It's supposed to be different words genius! They are written by different authors, at different times, from different perspectives. Buy a clue man!

    Or are you yet again going to put your own words and interpretations into...
    Oh stop the petty lies. No one has put their own words and interpretations, much less for you to say "again". All I've done is ask you a question, and you're still dodging.

    It is still not clear whether you know what the verses mean.

    One gospeller writes that the women didn't tell anyone what it was they had witnessed at the empty tome  and gives a reason why they didn't.
    Until when? Did they never tell anyone? Did the author say? When did the story in Mark end? Did the author say?

    yet two other gospellers claim that they did speak of their experience. Why are you denying this fact. 
    I haven't. I've denied the assumptions you're placing over the stories.

    In Mark, the story ends right as the women leave the tomb. In Matthew and Luke, the story follows them to after they arrived home. So if they told others after they arrived home, only Matthew and Luke would have that account of them telling others. Easy.

    Stop trying to bury these contradictory verses with stalling and filibustering and either explain them or simply admit that they are indeed what they are and always will remain: CONTRADICTIONS!
    I just explained them again. Will you stupidly pretend again I didn't?

    neither said they any thing to any man;
    Until they arrived home Cletus! Jesus was considered a criminal against the state. The disciples were in hiding. Of course they would not say anything except to trusted friends.

    Here are a few questions that will embarrass you even if you dodge them.

    Q: Who did the women tell in Matthew and Luke?
    A: The disciples

    Q: Where were these disciples?
    A: At the house.

    Q: So then, when did the women tell them?
    A: After they arrived at the house.

    But Marks story ends before they arrive at the house! So Mark mentions that they spoke to no one running away from the tomb. You want it to mean they spoke to no one EVER AGAIN. Stupid.

    It is also interesting to note here the massive contradiction from Matthew (28:9) above where he tells of the women holding Jesus' feet.  
    You are confused. First, more than one group of women set out to the tomb that morning. You have confused those 2 groups. Second, the WOMEN do not touch Jesus, He even tells them not to touch Him.

    So in Matthew and Luke, the women rush home and tell no one until they reach home. How does that contradict Mark? The only way is for you to say Mark means they NEVER tell anyone EVER. But that isn't what the text says. That is just the lie you push.

    But that is an idiots assumption. No reason for it.

    These Gospel writers just cannot seem to get it together , can they?
    The thing that tickles me is that these goobers actually think everyone, billions of people, missed this for hundreds of years, till they came along.

    Now, watch the genius dodge the questions.... Again.
  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    Same words, different meaning.

    Yes. You are doing exactly what I predicted you would do and as all believers do. That is; YOU  put YOUR OWN   words and meaning by rearranging and  re writing the whole scripture.  It is all you can do when trying to explain away these dreamily obvious biblical contradictions.

    MUST DO BETTER!!!!
  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    Yes. You are doing exactly what I predicted you would do...
    You did exactly what I predicted you'd do. You dodged my questions.

    rearranging and  re writing the whole scripture.
    I rearranged and rewrote nothing. You're just confused because my questions show you to be a fake and a fraud.

    Both Matthew, Luke, and Mark all say the same thing, the women told the others only AFTER they arrived back at home.

    MUST DO BETTER!!!!
    Why? I'm beating you already. You're dodging like a scared little girl.