What do you guys think of the American election's candidates so far?

Author: DynamicSquid ,

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  • DynamicSquid
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    With the recent 5th debate airing a couple days ago, I formulated a new thought on the candidates...

    Joe Biden
    - seemed kinda dull this time
    - forgot what he was going to say at one point

    Cory Booker
    - seems like a cool guy
    - nothing special though

    Pete Buttigieg
    - He's actually pretty good
    - I like the way he spoke

    Tulsi Gabbard
    - She's actually doing pretty good
    - Still nothing special though...

    Kamala Harris
    - More of a emotional speaker
    - Nothing special here

    Amy Klobuchar
    - kinda forgot she existed...

    Bernie Sanders
    - His ideas about government reform are so good
    - Although he's a bit old...

    Tom Steyer
    - Climate change, cool
    - Still new to the debate, but made a good impression

    Elizabeth Warren
    - Doing pretty good
    - Although still nothing special

    Andrew Yang
    - Favourite candidate by far
    Hope he gets more media coverage though...


    What do you guys think?
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    The only people who have a snowball's chance are Warren, Sanders, Biden, and (a huge maybe) Buttigieg(but really really doubt it).

    Sanders, Warren, and Harris are utter psychopaths.

    Gabbard, Biden, Buttigieg, and maybe Klobuchar can sometimes make a lick of sense.

    The rest I don't really care to dignify with a response.
  • DynamicSquid
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Really? You think Sanders has a chance?

    His ideas are great, but his only downside is his health, and that's a major one (https://fortune.com/2016/09/14/hillary-clinton-health-poll-concerns/).

    I also think that Biden is dying down, and might not be the front runner soon.

    And what about Yang? Why don't you like him?

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    Sanders has the same base as Warren, so whichever takes the lead in the primary states will take over that radical base. 

    Yeah, Warren is the most likely in my opinion. Sanders' health isn't helping him.

    Biden is dying down, but he basically owns the moderate base.

    Yang is just kinda lame. "I'm an Asian, so I know math." Very cringy. Doesn't measure the opportunity cost of the UBI. When you redistribute wealth, how will it affect producers that have to pay for all of that? He keeps talking about automation, but I have yet to hear his plan on how to accommodate those changes. 

    UBI: $1,000  per adult per month, correct? We have 209,128,094 adults. So, that is $209,129,094,000/month. $2,509,537,128,000 (so $2.5 trillion per year). Seems rather expensive. How will the benefits exceed those costs and how will taxes rise to pay for this?
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    I'm still hoping Warren pulls through.
  • ethang5
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    The dems will not pick the person to most likely be able to beat Trump. They will fall from in party politics, just like in 2016.
  • disgusted
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    As a conservative it's not surprising that you can ignore the FACT that almost every developed country has universal health care. You won't find any fascist countries who do, telling ain't it?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Sanders has the same base as Warren, so whichever takes the lead in the primary states will take over that radical base. 
    Actually, they have very different bases. Sanders' base is mostly working class and multi ethnic. Warren's base is mostly upper middle class white people. Warren and Butigieg actually have very similar bases. This is why as Pete has risen lately, Warren has been falling. Sanders and Biden also have very similar bases. 

    Yeah, Warren is the most likely in my opinion. Sanders' health isn't helping him.
    At this particular moment, I would say the most likely is Biden if he can hold on, which is far from certain. He has been really low energy, he constantly loses his train of thought and often just says stuff that doesn't make sense. Sanders is 2nd most likely, he has actually passed warren in the polls. Her terrible healthcare plan(s) have really hurt her. Buttigieg is a seriously long shot because he has no appeal among black or latino people. 

    no one else has even a remote chance. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @disgusted
    There aren't currently any fascist nations in the world, so.... no?

    Plus, fascism isn't right-wing. It you actually knew what it was, you would understand that.

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    I meant that Warren and Sanders have similar platforms. Whoever drops out, the other will likely inherit that base. It may currently be divided socioeconomically and racially right now, but if they care about policy, the base will run to the other.

    Yeah, Buttigieg really has no chance. I have heard he is doing well in primary states and the first two are crucial. I heard Warren is falling behind because of her grossly unpopular tax plans to pay for healthcare and other programs. Biden has been falling in the polls, but people still like Obama and most centrist Democrats like him.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    I meant that Warren and Sanders have similar platforms. Whoever drops out, the other will likely inherit that base. It may currently be divided socioeconomically and racially right now, but if they care about policy, the base will run to the other.
    If you look at the 2nd choices of candidates in polls you will see this is not the case. The top 2nd choice for Biden supporters is Bernie. The top 2nd choice for Bernie supporters is Biden, not warren. The top 2nd choice for warren was Bernie though. If warren dropped out, that would probably help Sanders. If sanders dropped out, that wouldn't really help warren. 


    Buttigieg really has no chance. I have heard he is doing well in primary states and the first two are crucial.
    Pete is dumping huge amounts of money into the early states. They are kind of his wheelhouse, IE overwhelmingly white. He might be able to do well in the 1st few states. He will get destroyed on super tuesday though. And with Duval Patrick and Bloomberg jumping in, that might undermine pete and drop him back. 

    I heard Warren is falling behind because of her grossly unpopular tax plans to pay for healthcare and other programs.
    I would agree with that assessment. Her plan to pay for it was a cop out. It relied on savings from immigration reform and a head tax on companies that will obviously fall on workers. But it lets her say the magic words that she won't raise taxes on workers, at least directly. Her implementation plan is also really dumb. 

    Biden has been falling in the polls, but people still like Obama and most centrist Democrats like him.
    Biden's support is tricky. He is kind of the candidate for old people. If you look at his support, it is almost exclusively from people over 50. Basically, people who have already built up their life in the current system and are afraid of change. But there are very few people who are excited about him. If you go to a Sanders or Warren or even a Butigieg rally, you will see lots of people who are excited by their candidate. You see almost none of that from biden supporters. It will be interesting to see what kind of turnout he supporters will have. 
  • DynamicSquid
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Seems rather expensive. How will the benefits exceed those costs and how will taxes rise to pay for this?
    Hmm... It's no question that a UBI would help the society, but I hate to see when people talk about the cost of a UBI.

    It's cheaper than you think.

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    So, you don't think that higher taxes will have any negative impact?

    I showed the costs according to his math.

    Your source says we currently pay $500 to $600 billion every year. I showed how it would cost more. $2.5 trillion if every adult can get $1000. If this costs less, I would prefer it to regular welfare programs. But, poor people use drugs a lot. Could we be subsidizing drug addictions of poor people by giving them money?

    Supposedly a 10% VAT will cover it. I would have to look into how a VAT influences consumer spending.

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    If you look at the 2nd choices of candidates in polls you will see this is not the case. The top 2nd choice for Biden supporters is Bernie. The top 2nd choice for Bernie supporters is Biden, not warren. The top 2nd choice for warren was Bernie though. If warren dropped out, that would probably help Sanders. If sanders dropped out, that wouldn't really help warren. 
    Ok, that is interesting that Bernie supporters would go for Biden instead of Warren. Biden's policies are much different than Bernie's, while Warren is just a slightly more moderate version of Bernie. Doesn't make much sense to me, but if that is what the polls are saying, I guess that is how it is.

    Pete is dumping huge amounts of money into the early states. They are kind of his wheelhouse, IE overwhelmingly white. He might be able to do well in the 1st few states. He will get destroyed on super tuesday though. And with Duval Patrick and Bloomberg jumping in, that might undermine pete and drop him back. 

    I felt Pete might have a chance if he wins Iowa because historically, that is how it has gone with Democrat primaries. The only anomalies have been Bill Clinton and Howard Dean. I don't feel like the demographics are a big player because this is the trend and the demographics of those states haven't radically changed as they have in Texas, Arizona, and California.

    I would agree with that assessment. Her plan to pay for it was a cop out. It relied on savings from immigration reform and a head tax on companies that will obviously fall on workers. But it lets her say the magic words that she won't raise taxes on workers, at least directly. Her implementation plan is also really dumb. 

    Yeah, I read what you said about her implementation. Two-part plan? Seems really dumb to me because she will miss the initial push you get from the election. Based on the Senate, I don't know if any Democrat could push any plan they want, though. At least Bernie admits that he will raise taxes on the middle class.

    Biden's support is tricky. He is kind of the candidate for old people. If you look at his support, it is almost exclusively from people over 50. Basically, people who have already built up their life in the current system and are afraid of change. But there are very few people who are excited about him. If you go to a Sanders or Warren or even a Butigieg rally, you will see lots of people who are excited by their candidate. You see almost none of that from biden supporters. It will be interesting to see what kind of turnout he supporters will have. 


    Yeah, Obama was the "Change" man. Biden doesn't really act like he wants to deviate from the status quo, so I doubt that he will get Obama's turnout.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Ok, that is interesting that Bernie supporters would go for Biden instead of Warren. Biden's policies are much different than Bernie's, while Warren is just a slightly more moderate version of Bernie. Doesn't make much sense to me, but if that is what the polls are saying, I guess that is how it is.
    That isn't really true. Warren and Sanders are quite different. She has also been fairly inconsistent on issues. She was also a republican for most of her life. Many progressives don't trust her. 

    I felt Pete might have a chance if he wins Iowa because historically, that is how it has gone with Democrat primaries. The only anomalies have been Bill Clinton and Howard Dean. I don't feel like the demographics are a big player because this is the trend and the demographics of those states haven't radically changed as they have in Texas, Arizona, and California.
    Recent polls have put butigieg at less than 1% support among black people. He recently put out a plan for how he would help black people, then sent out a letter showing all the black people who supported the plan. The problem was that half the people on the list were white. And of the 4 headline people they were touting, literally none of them endorsed Pete, 1 had already endorsed Sanders. Only 1 even supported his plan. He outright lied about having black support, to make it look like he had black support. With numbers like that, he has no chance at all. 

    Yeah, Obama was the "Change" man. Biden doesn't really act like he wants to deviate from the status quo, so I doubt that he will get Obama's turnout.
    It's also a little weird that so many black people like him. Obama picked him because he was as white as they come. He is also pretty right wing in the democratic party. I mean he pushed Reagan further right in the war on drugs, which was catastrophic for black people. But the media basically wont say a bad word about him. Biden pushed policies for decades that cracked down on black people. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    That isn't really true. Warren and Sanders are quite different. She has also been fairly inconsistent on issues. She was also a republican for most of her life. Many progressives don't trust her. 

    They both want a wealth tax, higher taxes on the rich, higher corporate taxes, and ultimately, universal healthcare, loan forgiveness of some sort(Bernie wants all forgiven), and free college. I don't think Warren was ever a Republican. I personally hate both, but I like Bernie a little better. He seems genuine, and I think that he would actually do some good attacking special interests. It is just that I hate about 9/10 of his other policies and therefore couldn't see myself ever supporting him.

    Recent polls have put butigieg at less than 1% support among black people. He recently put out a plan for how he would help black people, then sent out a letter showing all the black people who supported the plan. The problem was that half the people on the list were white. And of the 4 headline people they were touting, literally none of them endorsed Pete, 1 had already endorsed Sanders. Only 1 even supported his plan. He outright lied about having black support, to make it look like he had black support. With numbers like that, he has no chance at all. 

    I mean, if Pete wins the primary, he gets de facto support because of voting demographics. African Americans vote over 90% Democrat since the 1960s. Maybe turnout would be lower, but they wouldn't vote for Trump.

    It's also a little weird that so many black people like him. Obama picked him because he was as white as they come. He is also pretty right wing in the democratic party. I mean he pushed Reagan further right in the war on drugs, which was catastrophic for black people. But the media basically wont say a bad word about him. Biden pushed policies for decades that cracked down on black people. 

    Yeah, he has a really good record on women's rights, I have heard and choppy on supposedly "racist" policies. Why does making drugs illegal necessarily have to be anti-black? Do black people use drugs more often?
  • disgusted
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Still ignoring the FACT that almost every developed country has universal health care.

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @disgusted
    Just the ones that tax the poor at 40%.

    This is why I support Warren, because she will mirror the tax codes of the EU.
  • disgusted
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    @pollywanna
    Try to find some education.
    I'm not about to converse with someone who is proud of ignorance and continually displays that pride.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @disgusted
    Are you ignoring the FACT that we have a more competitive economy than most of those countries? The only ones that are more competitive have lower corporate tax rates than us, Hong Kong and Singapore. And your loony lefty Bernie Sanders is intent on raising that. 
  • disgusted
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Your economy is crap if it supports the plutocracy rampant in your country.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @disgusted
    Well, we have the strongest economy in the world. If ours is crap, I shudder to think of what yours is.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    It's an economy where the poor are taxed at 40% rates so the government can provide mandatory services.

    That will never happen in the land of the free. Taxes are still optional for the poor in the USA through Lottery games and Powerball, and none of the services are mandatory.

    Socialism died with the Obama-lie about keeping existing choices for services.
    Americans are way too hooked on choices.
  • disgusted
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Plus, fascism isn't right-wing. It you actually knew what it was, you would understand that.


  • disgusted
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    It's an economy where the poor are taxed at 40% rates so the government can provide mandatory services.
    Do present the figures in support of this.

    That will never happen in the land of the free. Taxes are still optional for the poor in the USA through Lottery games and Powerball, and none of the services are mandatory.
    Fairy tale land.

    Socialism died with the Obama-lie about keeping existing choices for services.
    Americans are way too hooked on choices.
    Americans don't understand the words used by the rest of the world, Americans have been indoctrinated into paranoia for 70yrs. Americans are hooked on the ignorance your leaders have been feeding you for decades.