Should Pot be legalized?

Author: Pinkfreud08 ,

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  • Pinkfreud08
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    Just trying to see both sides of the issue that's all 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Pinkfreud08
    Yes. And all the arguments that I have heard not to legalize  it  don't hold up for the best part. IMO.

    I am willing to change my mind should someone present a good case.
  • bmdrocks21
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    Medicinally, sure.

    Recreationally? I wouldn’t say legalize, but perhaps decriminalize. Maybe forced rehab for users? Legalization has led to an increase in the use of pot in Colorado, and that is not an optimal outcome
  • Pinkfreud08
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    What's bad with the recreational use of pot? Assuming the person only does it every once in awhile? 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Pinkfreud08
    Well, before age 25 it can seriously damage their brain development (alcohol should probably be age 25 as well). But weed is addictive, and it may start as every once in a while but turn into a really bad addiction and cause memory loss until use it stopped. As every addiction goes, it is hard to quit, so I’d deter weed use outside of any proven medical application.
  • Pinkfreud08
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Fair enough, by chance do you have articles or any studies for said claims? ( Not arguing just genuinely curious )
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Pinkfreud08
    Absolutely.

    Just found this one on the adolescent brain changes:



  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Pinkfreud08
    About 30% of people who have used weed have some type of addiction
    You are 4 to 7 times more likely if used before 18

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Many chemicals can affect a developing brain. That includes caffeine, alcohol, nicotine etc. 

    If you want to blanket ban any chemical that can do that, I would oppose that stance, but I could respect the argument. Saying that we should make it illegal to use one substance (pot) but legal to use a more damaging one (alcohol) is hypocritical though. 

    Canada has fully legalized marijuana and there is no drug epidemic. I'd say full legalization is a good plan. Also, that decriminalizing the use of most other drugs would also be a good idea. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Yeah, there are lots of good arguments for legalizing all of them as well.

    Not sure that caffeine harms the developing mind, like weed does
  • Greyparrot
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    yes.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    I think the entire question needs to have it's frame of reference changed. For decades we have looked at it as a criminal issue. IE don't do that or we will punish you. This created the war on drugs. But it has been a massive failure. 

    We need to look at it as a health issue instead. Don't throw addicts in prison, help them get clean and actually fix their life. It is a lot cheaper than locking them up and it won't ruin millions of lives. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    I completely agree that it is a health issue rather than a criminal one. That is why I said it should be decriminalized- no prison. There is no good coming out of paying for them to go to prison and then the felony charge can make it hard to find jobs afterwards
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Medical Marijuana Poisoning in Kids

    Both decriminalization and legalized recreational use have been associated with increased unintentional pediatric ingestions

    you just have to be willing to accept the unintended consequences

    decriminalized- no prison, I also agree with that.

    After woman's death, overdoses, Minn. officials raise alarm over marijuana wax

    Can Marijuana Kill You?


  • oromagi
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    I am a resident of Downtown Denver & an occasional  recreational consumer of marijuana.  I once considered most of the medicinal claims around marijuana bullshit but I was impressed by the effectiveness of CBD at maintaining my father's appetite during the last two years of his struggle against cancer. 

    I'm not one to argue that marijuana is particularly good for you but I am well convinced that marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco- so long as those two drugs are legally available than I think the Govt. has a responsibility to offer marijuana as a non-adictive, far less harmful alternative to more dangerous drugs.

    Now beginning our seventh year since legalization, Denver has enjoyed a nearly 20% increase in population since legalization, attracted by legalization - and that wave of new migrants has proved remarkably beneficial- avg age late 20's, avg income 80,000, very tech savvy, very trendy.  There are so many good jobs in Denver right now that fast food restaurants and the post office and public transportation are collapsing from the lack of applicants.  So far, Denver has seen almost no increase in marijuana consumption by the under 21 set but a remarkable tripling of consumption by the over 60s.  Drug related crimes have predictably fallen off 15% but everybody is surprised that DUIs have gone down 25% at a time when Denver is making a genuine play for beer capitol of the world.

    There's a lot of pro-marijuana folks that will argue that even recreational marijuana is good for you.  I'm not one of those though there are some practical medical applications. 

    Mainly, I'd argue that marijuana is far less toxic than nicotine or alcohol.  If you are going to allow those substances and accept all their manifest harms then

    1. It's hypocritical to oppose use of a less toxic substance, and
    2.  There's a real advantage to offering marijuana as a less addictive, less harmful alternative to those chemicals.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @oromagi
    The main problem that I have with your statement is:
    non-adictive
    You spelled "addictive" wrong and I just couldn't pass it by.

    Just kidding, but I am pretty sure it is addictive. Darn near everything is. Salt and sugar are addictive, so I'm pretty sure an herb that produces pleasurable results is also addictive.
  • oromagi
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    You're right. It is wrong to say "non-addictive," particularly if we are calling salt and sugar addictive.  Let's withdraw that faulty adjective and instead insert this closer-to-the-point excerpt from Wikipedia:

    Cannabis dependence develops in about 9% of users, significantly less than that of heroin, cocaine, alcohol, and prescribed anxiolytics,[17] but slightly higher than that for psilocybin, mescaline, or LSD.[18] Of those who use cannabis daily, 10–20% develop dependence.

    To that I will add personal anecdote: as somebody who was very addicted to nicotine for a long time I sense little of the physical dependency/urge that drug (nicotine) stimulates in the consumption of marijuana. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    Ok, fair enough. It may be "less addictive" than other drugs on the market, which is a good thing. 

    I might have to take a look at your source to determine how they got that information and what they would define as "dependence".

    The National Institute of Health states that 30% of people who use marijuana have some sort of marijuana use disorder. I'm not sure how use disorder is defined versus dependence, but I still think that having nearly 1/3 of people with a disorder is fairly significant.

    The rate of acquiring this disorder is 4 to 7 times more likely if it is used before 18. Fortunately, I haven't seen any data suggesting that its use has become more common in teens since legalization (at least in Colorado), and there are obviously no pushes for legalization at that age.   
  • oromagi
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Did you see that both sides cite JAMA?  The 30 percenters cite JAMApsychiatry and the 9 percenters are JAMAoncology.  We may be looking at the difference between psychiatric and oncological definitions of disorder or perhaps oncologists are better pre-disposed (or biased) to mmj by practical experience.
  • Pinkfreud08
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    100 % agree man, actually surprised you live in denver tho
  • oromagi
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    why surprised?
  • Pinkfreud08
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    You seem like an east coast person tbh 

  • oromagi
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    I was born in Alexandria, VA.  I lived in Crofton, Md until 6th grade so yeah, there is probably plenty of east coast in my language.  But I've been in Denver a long time now, the city has changed utterly several times since I've lived downtown.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @oromagi
    Ok, so I took a short gander at the difference. An abuse disorder is a more mild form of addiction while dependence is a moderate to severe addiction.

    Abuse disorders are essentially "people who continue to use a substance despite negative consequences resulting from the use of said substance". 

    Dependence is where people are essentially unable to stop using despite the desire to and they have withdrawal symptoms.

    That 30% abuse rate is still quite concerning. 
  • oromagi
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    That 30% abuse rate is still quite concerning. 
    Let's agree to be concerned.  My point is that I'd rather see marijuana abuse replace liquor and cigarette abuse. It's not about the absence of negative consequences so much as reduction in negative consequences.