Should Justin Trudeau seek revenge on Iran?

Author: DynamicSquid ,

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  • DynamicSquid
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    A couple weeks ago, Iran shot down a plane and killed like 57 Canadians. So should Trudeau have taken military action?
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    He should wait for America to fight their war, just like every other country does.

    -_-
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    He should wait for America to fight their war, just like every other country does.
    maybe america should stop assuming it has the right or the authority to go to war with everyone.


  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    maybe america should stop assuming it has the right or the authority to go to war with everyone.
    Probably. Although I don't really care about the "right" or "authority". I care that it is a waste of resources and soldier lives.
  • dustryder
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    --> @DynamicSquid
    Uhhh no? Taking military action is in neither country's best interests. The downing of the plane was a tragic accident and should be settled with reparations towards the families of the deceased.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Probably. Although I don't really care about the "right" or "authority". I care that it is a waste of resources and soldier lives.
    Right and authority are important when you want allies and co-operation. If america want other countries to assist it in advancing it's goals, they have to feel like america is their their ally. When america acts like a giant asshole and tries to dictate policy to other countries, that only undermines foreign policy objectives. 

    And without allies and co-operation, things get alot more expensive. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    I mean, that sounds fine and all, but it really boils down to this: either you need to do something or you don’t. If it is absolutely necessary, you have to do something regardless and you can try to get as much help as possible. If you don’t need to do something, you shouldn’t. It is the responsibility of our government to keep our citizens safe and honor treaties. Anything outside of that shouldn’t be engaged in at all, I would say
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    He should wait for America to fight their war, just like every other country does.
    this is exactly what the soy boy will do, that and pay a ton of money to get the bodies back and reimburse them for their missiles, but seriously what country has ever been intimidated or afraid of Canada?  No one take this "guy" seriously or is intimidated by "him"

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    It's obvious that Iran doesn't care about what Canada would do, or they would have continued to deny any responsibility in launching the missile once they realized the USA was not going to do anything.
  • Alec
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    --> @Greyparrot
    I think Iran should restitute the families of those who lost their lives a mutually agreed rate.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Have the Iranians said how they would ensure this wouldn't happen in the future, you know things that civilized nations would do.  They will have no problems in sacrificing some scapegoats for this "accident"
    Anything, any gesture would appease the soy boy, he is a spineless coward imo, either that or the news has failed to adequately cover his harsh criticism and condemnation on this "accident"
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    I mean, that sounds fine and all, but it really boils down to this: either you need to do something or you don’t. If it is absolutely necessary, you have to do something regardless and you can try to get as much help as possible. If you don’t need to do something, you shouldn’t. 
    America doesn't "need" to do anything in most of the world. By that metric, america should just stop doing anything. I think the far better way of looking at it is to look at the world as a community that you need to get along with. When america just gives it's allies the middle finger and does what it wants, it's "allies" realize they aren't really allies. Then america finds itself increasingly ignored and ostracized as decisions are made by others. 

    For example, right now most of america's allies are just sort of planning around the US. There is no point talking to the US about things because trump will just throw a fit or break his word at the drop of a hat anyway. Germany has largely become the leader of the free world in america's absence.  
  • Greyparrot
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    Germany has largely become the leader of the free world in america's absence.  

    That's scary considering how much fossil fuel Germany buys from Russia.

    EU buys 20% of Iranian oil which is then used to pay for missiles to shoot Canadians.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    EU buys 20% of Iranian oil which is then used to pay for missiles to shoot Canadians.
    If trump hadn't torched the Iran deal and then murdered their 2nd most powerful political leader, then no missiles would have been fired. Don't pretend like america didn't have a big part to play in this tragedy. 


  • Greyparrot
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    You are right. Those missiles would have gone to Hezbollah and Hamas. Those bastions of world peace.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    You are right. Those missiles would have gone to Hezbollah and Hamas. Those bastions of world peace.
    As opposed to america which arms different terrorists and mass murderers? American weapons are killing civilians all over the world. Why do you feel that Iran is evil for taking plays right out of the american playbook?


  • Greyparrot
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    Germany had the right idea. If you want world peace, surrender to Russia.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Germany had the right idea. If you want world peace, surrender to Russia.
    Buying things from a country is surrendering to them? So america has surrendered to half the world?


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Under Hillary, we did when we gave Uranium to the Russians. No shame in surrender for the sake of world peace.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Under Hillary, we did when we gave Uranium to the Russians. No shame in surrender for the sake of world peace.
    trade is not surrender, it is trade. Everyone trades with other countries. It is how the modern economy works. To think that trading with a country is "surrendering" is extremely isolationist. 


  • Greyparrot
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    Exactly! Tribute as a means to world peace is not shameful.

    Hamas has a gofundme page up if you want to contribute to world peace.

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Exactly! Tribute as a means to world peace is not shameful.
    Trade is not tribute. it is trade. You give something to them, they give something to you. That is the cornerstone of civilization. 


  • Greyparrot
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    Like I said, the cornerstone of civilization, Hezbollah, is accepting tribute on its gofundme page.

    See you there soon for the sake of world peace.

    You don't need 2 billion in unmarked bills on pallets, any amount will help.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    By that metric, america should just stop doing anything.
    We should stop a lot of what we are doing, yes.

     When america just gives it's allies the middle finger and does what it wants, it's "allies" realize they aren't really allies.
    Generally, outside of trade, the relationship is rather parasitic. Most NATO countries can't even contribute the minimum % of GDP to their own defense. They expect us to bail them out. Most countries aren't very good allies to us, either. Terrorism like ISIS is a much bigger threat to Europe than the US, but what did they do to stop them? Very little.

     I think the far better way of looking at it is to look at the world as a community that you need to get along with
    To a limited extent. I don't want a bunch of impoverished developing nations telling Americans how to live. There are times for cooperation, though, like stopping genocides. The UN, not the US, should get involved in that.

    For example, right now most of america's allies are just sort of planning around the US. There is no point talking to the US about things because trump will just throw a fit or break his word at the drop of a hat anyway. Germany has largely become the leader of the free world in america's absence.  

    How do you figure that Germany is somehow the leader of the free world? They are slowing down economically and are dealing with a gigantic refugee crisis. Not doing too great.

    And what is getting planned around us?

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Generally, outside of trade, the relationship is rather parasitic. Most NATO countries can't even contribute the minimum % of GDP to their own defense.
    because it is unnecessary. Cuts to military spending started to be made because there was no real threat that required that level of spending. As an alliance, NATO's military spending massively dwarfs anyone they could theoretically fight. Don't blame other countries because the US is addicted to massive, runaway military spending. 

    They expect us to bail them out. Most countries aren't very good allies to us, either.
    How? What are those other countries doing that undermines america? 

    Terrorism like ISIS is a much bigger threat to Europe than the US, but what did they do to stop them? Very little.
    The US created ISIS. The power vacuum that was created by the american actions in the middle east created the problem. Then republicans whine that other countries wont spend billions of dollars to help clean up the US's mess. 

    How do you figure that Germany is somehow the leader of the free world? They are slowing down economically and are dealing with a gigantic refugee crisis. Not doing too great.
    In order to be a leader, people have to be willing to follow you. America has decided that it doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks. It will invade anyone, murder anyone, sanction anyone they want at any time no matter what anyone (even their allies) have to say about it. At least under Obama or even bush, the US government pretended like they cared what their allies think. Trump has dropped the game entirely and is just trying to dictate orders. The only "allies" he listens to are the Saudi's and the russians.