Hong Kong

Author: Alec ,

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  • Alec
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    Should Hong Kong be independent from China?  I think they should.  It's what the locals want.

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Alec
    Should Hong Kong be independent from China?  I think they should.  It's what the locals want.
    Never going to happen. China would rather kill every single one of them than give up Hong Kong. 


  • Alec
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    China would rather kill every single one of them than give up Hong Kong. 

    I doubt it.  The whole world is watching.  If POTUS, I'd sanction China entirely until they give Hong Kong and Macau independence.  We can get stuff from Europe and Africa instead of China.  I'd rather build ties with Africa and Europe than with China.  I hate China and building ties with Africa helps to weaken China.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Alec
     If POTUS, I'd sanction China entirely until they give Hong Kong and Macau independence.  We can get stuff from Europe and Africa instead of China.  I'd rather build ties with Africa and Europe than with China.  I hate China and building ties with Africa helps to weaken China.
    Why do you assume those countries would prefer to deal with the US instead of China? China is much less likely to fuck with them than the US is. China is building solid ties throughout asia and africa.


  • Alec
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Why do you assume those countries would prefer to deal with the US instead of China?

    Europe and the US are in NATO.  We got an alliance.

    China is building solid ties throughout asia and africa.
    Africa, your right, but this can change.  Not in much of the rest of Asia.  India is still our ally.  Many Asian countries are our ally.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Never going to happen. China would rather kill every single one of them than give up Hong Kong. 
    agreed, I don't see anyway this could ever happen without a war.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Alec
    Europe and the US are in NATO.  We got an alliance.
    Trump regularly trashes NATO. Several of the biggest NATO partners were in the Iran deal and trump burned it without giving a shit what they think. If you think that alliance is still solid, you haven't been paying attention to what trump is doing. 


    Africa, your right, but this can change.  Not in much of the rest of Asia.  India is still our ally.  Many Asian countries are our ally.
    Are you kidding? China is pouring huge amounts of money into asia, including India.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Alec
     If POTUS, I'd sanction China entirely until they give Hong Kong and Macau independence.
    After we just signed a trade deal? That would work wonders for our economy.....

  • TheRealNihilist
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    Should Hong Kong be independent from China?  I think they should.  It's what the locals want.
    Why use the word "locals"?

  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Alec
    Hong Kong should be independent, but I've got to agree with HistoryBuff and TheDredPirateRoberts here. China will never give them up, and no one will stop them because it would start WWIII.
  • Dynasty
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    --> @Alec
    I think they should be independent.
  • Swagnarok
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    Don't apply to Hong Kong and Macau a standard that you wouldn't apply to California and Texas.
  • WaterPhoenix
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    --> @Alec
    I'm rather indifferent on hong kong, as long as all the protests stop then I'm down for anything.
  • Alec
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    I still think Europe would side with us over China, even with Trump damaging relations.  In Asia, China's trying to get some influence, but I don't think it's working: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/03/12/us/china-dominance-promo-1520871419436/china-dominance-promo-1520871419436-facebookJumbo.png
  • Alec
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    --> @bmdrocks21
     That would work wonders for our economy.....
    Why can't we trade with western countries more instead of China?

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Alec
    I still think Europe would side with us over China, even with Trump damaging relations.
    Why? The American government has proven it doesn't care about it's allies. It will do whatever it wants, whenever it wants and they can all go to hell. It proved that with the Iran deal, it proved that when they murdered Solemani.

    If Trump escalates a war/trade war with China, why would you think Europe would back the US?
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Alec
    Why can't we trade with western countries more instead of China?

    Well, we trade so much with China because we can get stuff cheaper there. Cost of living would rise when most of our products increase in price. We are then less competitive economically.
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Why use the word "locals"?

    Easier to spell than "Hong Kongians".
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Alec
    Did you read his mind, did he tell you or something else?

  • Alec
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    If Trump escalates a war/trade war with China, why would you think Europe would back the US?

    They wouldn't back us, just like I don't back up everything Trump does.  I certainly don't back him up on damaging relations with the EU, although I do agree with him that the EU needs to pay up or modify the 2% clause of the NATO treaty.  However, just as I would pick Trump over Hillary, the EU would pick the US over China I think.
  • Alec
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Well, we trade so much with China because we can get stuff cheaper there. Cost of living would rise when most of our products increase in price. We are then less competitive economically.

    If we abolished the minimum wage, then we would be able to sell things cheaper than China.  The workers find better jobs that aren't tied to a minimum wage that only require a HS degree if that's all they have, and the companies from this labor shortage, automate their workers, improving their competition ability and the worker benefits by finding a better paying job that attainable for them.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Alec
    although I do agree with him that the EU needs to pay up or modify the 2% clause of the NATO treaty. 
    Fair enough. they need to modify the treaty to lower the 2% clause. But if they tried to do that, trump would throw a fit. 

    However, just as I would pick Trump over Hillary, the EU would pick the US over China I think.
    why?
  • Alec
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    --> @HistoryBuff
     But if they tried to do that, trump would throw a fit. 
    If Trump throwed a fit over the EU lowering the NATO requirements, I'd critisize him for that.

    However, just as I would pick Trump over Hillary, the EU would pick the US over China I think.
    why?
    Historical biases come into play.  As a right winger, I'm inherently more likely to vote for a right winger than a left winger.  Europe, being democratic nations are more likely to support other democratic nations like America than a nation like China, which is communist.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Alec
    I don’t see abolishing the minimum wage helping our manufacturing sector for two reasons: very few people actually work for minimum wage in the US already and not a lot of people would be willing to do a factory job for minimum wage. I don’t see how these people would find better jobs because you get rid of minimum wage. Wouldn’t they have applied for these jobs already?