Foreign Policy is so fucking bad

Author: Dr.Franklin ,

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  • Dr.Franklin
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    I am endorsing Hezbollah,Syria and Russia now because American foreign policy sucks

    Peace between Israel and Palestine? How delusional are you?
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    And Israel wants us to go to war with Iran, just like they did with Iraq. We have been in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost two decades. We are illegally in Syria. I agree, our foreign policy sucks
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    totally agree, in syria we had the kurds fighting ISIS backed by us, the Assad government backed by Russia, the jihadists and Turkish-backed rebels, with all sides supported by a foreign power, a compromise could happen

    But no, just dip in the middle of a war after 5 years of fighting for Turkey to invade and to lose a key alliance in BOTH Iraq AND Syria, we weren't even fighting in syria, just supporting the kurds defeating ISIS.

    It's pissing me off.

  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    We are illegally in Syria.
    Why would legality matter to the US who controls most of the military power in the west?

  • triangle.128k
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    Out of every opportunity we get, we literally barely do anything right in the middle east.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    It may deter allies from helping us in future projects. Also, the president should really need the approval of Congress to do something like that.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    It may deter allies from helping us in future projects.
    Why would they since they rely on the US' military? I still haven't heard back from the European military meme.
    Also, the president should really need the approval of Congress to do something like that.
    Where does that need come from? 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Well, we have a system of checks and balances. We don't want one branch of the government to have too much power, which is why Congress should be in charge of military intervention. You need a majority consensus from over 500 different people to go to war vs just one man.

    Military isn't everything with foreign policy. There is also diplomacy, which they aren't reliant on us to conduct. 
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Well, we have a system of checks and balances. We don't want one branch of the government to have too much power, which is why Congress should be in charge of military intervention. You need a majority consensus from over 500 different people to go to war vs just one man.
    Is this supposed to be how it works or what you would hope it to be?
    Military isn't everything with foreign policy. There is also diplomacy, which they aren't reliant on us to conduct. 
    Without a military diplomacy can't occur because other countries won't take you seriously. Saying diplomacy isn't reliant on the US is not true, without the US military the diplomacy of other countries would be based on how much military power they have on their own. 
  • Imabench
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    The only way at this point that any sort of peace plan involving a two-state solution is reached is if the US grants heavy concessions to Palestine over Israel. 

    A lot of western Europe supports the peace plans the US puts forwards mainly because they dont want to damage their relations with the US. Any plan that has even a remote amount of sense to it will be agreed upon by Germany, France, UK, etc if the US backs it. This is not the case for many Arab nations, Russia and China, or basically any other part of the world that actually recognizes Palestine's existence (Which the US does not). Those nations not in western Europe can look at proposed peace plans and vote however they feel without having to worry about repercussions of damaged relations with the US, and since most proposals have been ass-backwards theyve more often then not opposed them. 

    If the US proposed a pretty pro-palestine deal though, western european nations would back it once more, but then so would Russia and China and the entire Arab world. Even if Israel didnt like the proposal, they would literally be the only ones in the world that would oppose it, so the pressure to make concessions for the sake of not being hated worldwide could push them to accept the deal. 

    It wouldnt even have to be 100% in favor of Palestine either. Letting Israel keep the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights (which they rightfully won since Egypt and Syria shit the bed trying to go against Israel in the 6 day war), in addition to putting blame for the outbreak of the war on Egypt could be enough concessions to Israel to not view the plan as a total reversal and convince them to accept the plan even if they have to make territorial concessions back to Palestine. 





  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Imabench
    What conditions would exist for Hamas to give up a full and unlimited right of return?
  • Stephen
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Peace between Israel and Palestine? How delusional are you?

    There will never be peace in that part of the world while that mosque sits right on top of  Temple of Solomon .

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Stephen
    EXACTLY now Palestine is Pro-Ran and we LOSE another territory, Iran has created a wall of countries that support them

    We are losing so incredibly bad, and killing solemmni didn't change anything, we didn't back it up with trying to get Iraq on our side, we and the stupid american public was worried about a WW3 THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN

  • Stephen
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    EXACTLY now Palestine is Pro-Ran and we LOSE another territory,

    "we"? They should be left to sort it all out for themselves. but you can't please all the people all of the time. Some will agree with me and others will say opposite. 


    Iran has created a wall of countries that support them

    Yes Iran has. So what are you saying?

    We are losing so incredibly bad,

    "we"?   what is it that you believe you are losing?



    and killing solemmni didn't change anything,

    That's debatable.



    we didn't back it up with trying to get Iraq on our side,


    "we"? Why would they want to support and be on the "side" of the USA after the USA and GB waged an illegal war on them. And they want us both out altogether. 


    we and the stupid american public was worried about a WW3 

    I am not sure you are correct on that. The only people I heard screaming WW 3 every two fkn minutes was the MS left wing media.


    THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN

    See!  even you knew "that would never happen".

     
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Iran has created a wall of countries that support them

    Perhaps if we didn't  occupy countries like Iraq against their will and didn’t go to war with half of them, they might support us....
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Is this supposed to be how it works or what you would hope it to be?

    How it is supposed to be and how I hope it to be.

    Without a military diplomacy can't occur because other countries won't take you seriously. Saying diplomacy isn't reliant on the US is not true, without the US military the diplomacy of other countries would be based on how much military power they have on their own. 
    European countries still have decent militaries, they just pale in comparison to ours. Compared to Middle Eastern and African countries, European countries are very strong militarily-speaking. We are definitely a boon to a diplomatic deal, but we need to quit walking back on promises before everyone loses faith in us.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    How it is supposed to be and how I hope it to be.
    How does it work?
    European countries still have decent militaries, they just pale in comparison to ours. Compared to Middle Eastern and African countries, European countries are very strong militarily-speaking. We are definitely a boon to a diplomatic deal, but we need to quit walking back on promises before everyone loses faith in us.
    Are you saying Europe can still be as diplomatic as they are now without the US?
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Are you saying Europe can still be as diplomatic as they are now without the US?

    That's a loaded question considering France and Germany have polar opposite foreign policy goals.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Greyparrot
    That's a loaded question considering France and Germany have polar opposite foreign policy goals.
    Europe is just an event. I don't want that questioned. I wanted if US wasn't around to help them would they be as effective. You can put in Israel if you want. 

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    How does it work?


    Bush, Obama, and Trump have been sending troops to the Middle East, many of them engaging in conflicts. Congress has the right to declare war, and presidents have been working around that.

    Are you saying Europe can still be as diplomatic as they are now without the US?

    Not entirely. China has the second most military spending, then Saudi Arabia. Russia is 8th. A lot of European countries are also at the top, though. African countries spend a few hundred million vs the billions spent by the UK. So, in terms of dealing with Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia, there could be difficulties. But for most countries, this wouldn't be an issue with us out of the picture. 

    Some countries like Iran and areas like Palestine have a strong bias against us, so it would probably aid diplomacy if we weren't involved in those.


  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Bush, Obama, and Trump have been sending troops to the Middle East, many of them engaging in conflicts. Congress has the right to declare war, and presidents have been working around that.
    Has any major updates happened or has very little changed between Bush to Trump?
    Some countries like Iran and areas like Palestine have a strong bias against us, so it would probably aid diplomacy if we weren't involved in those.
    Okay. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Has any major updates happened or has very little changed between Bush to Trump?

    "On January 9, 2020, the House of Representatives voted 224–194 to pass a non-binding War Powers Resolution to limit the president's ability to pursue military actions against Iran without congressional consent"

    Technically this has changed, but it is "non-binding", so not really.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    yeah, stupid mistakes