When Do You Pick?

Author: Salixes ,

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  • Salixes
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    For me, it's usually at the traffic lights.

    However, for theists, it must be a daunting choice in selecting the right religion, i.e., the religion that is authentic, making the remaining 9,999 religions false and fraudulent.

    So, tell me guys, how do you do it? I mean I really do admire your sense of decision making and there surely is a point after which you have thoroughly researched and considered which religion is the real one.

    You would have to have a keen nose at sniffing out the religion that is genuine and rejecting all the other religions that are, well....snotty.


  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Going by the numbers. 
    Theists are great religious group pickers. 

    I've a feeling that you sal like i , would be poor religious group pickers. I'm thinking it would take me 35  to  40 picks before i get it. 

    I was thinking the theists should put on a class. 
    To teach the atheists. 

    So what comes first. Believe in a god or joining a religious group? 

    Anyway one thing is for certain. 
    IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD , YOU JOIN A RELIGIOUS GROUP...
    It makes total sense.
     
    But first comes...PICKING THEIR RELIGION. 
    or what i like to call it. 
    Deciding what holy book is the true holy book. 
    Same , same.



     

  • ethang5
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    Don't ask Deb how he picked a debate site. He won't answer. The "mystery" is only with religions that have singing groups. (Search me for how singing figures into it. It seems to make sense to him inside his head)

    Now if Dart should get a singing group, say, The Darting Stones, or the Dartles, old Deb might just go insane.

    ...errr...go more..errr.. figure of speech. You get my drift.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Salixes
    I think picking a religion would be something that is quite natural. After all, everyone is religious. It is never a matter of religion or no religion - but which religion. In Australia secular thinking or atheism is not considered a religion - yet in America it is.  Ironic really. 

    But funnily enough - religion as defined by the secularist is quite different when it is defined by the religious or the greater majority in the world. 

    Religion is effectively worldview. Yes, some religions have deity figures - and some don't. Some have really tight and nitpicking rules - and some have no rules. Some have doctrines and teachings which distinguish them - and others pretend they don't have doctrines or teachings. Yet, as soon as anyone starts to criticise these doctrines or teachings - then all hell breaks loose (pardon the pun). 

    Examples please. Which worldview religion gets all up fired up when creation is mentioned? Which religion or worldview gets all fired up when homosexuality is mentioned? Gee which worldview or religion gets all fired up when religion gets mentioned on a religious debate site? 

    It is a joke and a deserved point of ridicule when someone says they are not religious. 

    But someone might say - TS you are not telling us how you picked your particular religion. And the answer is: I didn't. In fact I ran from Christianity as fast as I could when I was younger. The point is God picked it for me. And that is the nuts and bolts of it. I would not have chosen it - especially since like most people who reject things - we don't go back to something we have rejected. In my secular - atheistic days, Christianity sickened me on almost every level. It was bigoted, racist, intolerant and foolish. It rejected science, good thinking and having fun or living life. There were rules and rules for this and for that. And most of the Christians I knew were white and middle class snobs. Its doctrines on prayer were weak, they always wanted money. They held to doctrines that included effectively cannibalism - drowning people in the water including babies. They were inconsistent hypocrites - and many in some churches were paedophiles. Liars and drunks. Following a book - a dead book written 2000 years at least by people on the other side of the world in a culture I could care two hoots about. 

    And they wanted people to believe that some dude died on a cross and that was supposed to save the world from something I did not even believe in. God the devil and sin. Hell???  A three headed god - laughable. Jesus - half man half god. died and rose from the dead. lives in heaven and is coming back again. Far out - the whole notion is a joke. 

    And yet here I am. I did not pick it. God chose it for me. 



  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Tradesecret
    In Australia secular thinking or atheism is not considered a religion - yet in America it is. 
    Mainly would like to talk about America, do they identify as it or are you projecting that onto them?
    secularist
    Do you dislike secularism? 
    But someone might say - TS you are not telling us how you picked your particular religion. And the answer is: I didn't. In fact I ran from Christianity as fast as I could when I was younger. The point is God picked it for me. And that is the nuts and bolts of it. I would not have chosen it - especially since like most people who reject things - we don't go back to something we have rejected. In my secular - atheistic days, Christianity sickened me on almost every level. It was bigoted, racist, intolerant and foolish. It rejected science, good thinking and having fun or living life. There were rules and rules for this and for that. And most of the Christians I knew were white and middle class snobs. Its doctrines on prayer were weak, they always wanted money. They held to doctrines that included effectively cannibalism - drowning people in the water including babies. They were inconsistent hypocrites - and many in some churches were paedophiles. Liars and drunks. Following a book - a dead book written 2000 years at least by people on the other side of the world in a culture I could care two hoots about. 
    Why did you type this?
    And yet here I am. I did not pick it. God chose it for me. 
    Do you believe in determinism? 
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Imagine being in a religion whos god didn't do a book ?
    Absolute Non sec.

    No but You ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL knew somehow, and picked one holy book from the dozen.
    You didn't just eeny meeny miny moe it. 
    Thought went into it. 
    You ummmm'd and  arrrrrrr'd.
    I reckon the real book from God is,,,,, THAT ONE........  you chose the bible is going to be the only real true God inspired book.  
    CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'RE A ( CHRISTIAN )   
    All righty then...  lets get you into  a group.  ok what group do you go with.  
    I'm going withhhhhhhhhhh, 
    THAT ONE. 
    The Seventh dayers. don't. (pick a different one. ) 
    The churches around you are.

    Imagine picking the Koran as the one true holy book. 
    and then joining the Catholics
    It doesn't happen. 

    P.s REMEMBER: IF YOU SEE GOD ,
    Keep asking him over and over , real quickly
    WHAT RELIGIOUS GROUP DO I JOIN. 
    WHAT RELIGIOUS GROUP DO I JOIN. 
    WHAT RELIGIOUS GROUP DO I JOIN. 
    That is all you need to know. 

    Until then , ummmmmmm, nice pick.  

    Good game.


  • ethang5
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    Wow. And walking down a street, could be this guy, feet away from you. Goosebumps.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    In Australia secular thinking or atheism is not considered a religion - yet in America it is. 
    Mainly would like to talk about America, do they identify as it or are you projecting that onto them?
    In America, as might be expected, organisations declaring themselves receive a tax free status so far as it is not profit making. This includes secular and atheistic groups. In Australia this is not the case. 


    secularist
    Do you dislike secularism? 
    It depends what it is supposed to mean. Originally secular simply meant non-church type things. It did not relate to all so called non-religious thing. Its meaning has changed. Like Humanism for instance, how it was presented within the enlightenment clearly included the religious - just ask Erasmus, the pre-eminent humanist in his time - or Michelangelo or Da Vinci. None of these persons considered humanism something which was anti-religious which secular humanism has come to be about. 

    In respect to secularism itself, it as I understand is a creature of Protestantism. Its evolution was due to the fact that it believed States should be separate from church and vica versa. This was to enable the freedom of religions to co-exist without fear of being ostracised from the community. Ironically, in our 21st century, secularism now seeks to intentionally ostracise particular political and religious views from the community. Funny how the world works. 

    But someone might say - TS you are not telling us how you picked your particular religion. And the answer is: I didn't. In fact I ran from Christianity as fast as I could when I was younger. The point is God picked it for me. And that is the nuts and bolts of it. I would not have chosen it - especially since like most people who reject things - we don't go back to something we have rejected. In my secular - atheistic days, Christianity sickened me on almost every level. It was bigoted, racist, intolerant and foolish. It rejected science, good thinking and having fun or living life. There were rules and rules for this and for that. And most of the Christians I knew were white and middle class snobs. Its doctrines on prayer were weak, they always wanted money. They held to doctrines that included effectively cannibalism - drowning people in the water including babies. They were inconsistent hypocrites - and many in some churches were paedophiles. Liars and drunks. Following a book - a dead book written 2000 years at least by people on the other side of the world in a culture I could care two hoots about. 
    Why did you type this?
    And yet here I am. I did not pick it. God chose it for me. 
    Do you believe in determinism? 

    I believe in predestination or God's providence. This although clearly in the same realm as determinism is not the same thing. If Determinism was to be defined as God determines all things - then yes I could agree with it. If it means as the fatalists believe that all things are determined and cannot be changed, then no I do not agree with it. 

    Christianity holds to a personal God who personal cares for his creation. He does good and not in a whimsical fashion. He does things that bring himself glory, not out of arrogance, but righteousness. However what is good for his purposes may well be seem evil for those who feel his wrath. Like a judge who sentences a criminal to prison does good for the community by sentencing the criminal, the criminal does not perceive the good, only the wrath and hence the evil. Would it be right to call the judge's sentence good or evil? Right or Wrong? The community would suggest that it is good, no matter what the criminal said. The criminal would not even call it just, despite it being just. Who determines what is good then? Is it the lawmakers, the community, or the criminal? I take the view that God determines what is good as he is the creator and the law maker and the judge. It matters little really whether the sinner or the criminal disagrees with the judge and thinks it is evil. 

    The discussion over freedom and determinism is rife throughout all of the philosophy. Christianity holds to a third view - covenantalism. Hence, the God of the covenant, has a people of the covenant, who are saved by covenant. It is both freedom and determinism. Freedom for instance has no real meaning without boundaries. Why have boundaries if there is no freedom? covenant thinking requires both the individual and the corporate. The one and the many. Or if you can engage with this thinking, the Trinity - ONE GOD three persons. Not just ONE GOD and not just many gods. Not just black and white in absolutes - and not just a tapestry of many colours as in relativism. Freedom within boundaries - for example - "eat from any tree in the garden except". Freedom and yet boundary.


  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Tradesecret
    In America, as might be expected, organisations declaring themselves receive a tax free status so far as it is not profit making. This includes secular and atheistic groups.
    Do you have a link to atheist groups that are tax exempt in the US?
    Ironically, in our 21st century, secularism now seeks to intentionally ostracise particular political and religious views from the community.
    Links would be helpful.
    If Determinism was to be defined as God determines all things - then yes I could agree with it.
    So believe in determinism with God? 
    Christianity holds to a personal God who personal cares for his creation
    Can you explain this? 
  • Salixes
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    --> @Tradesecret
    And yet here I am. I did not pick it. God chose it for me. 

    It is never a matter of religion or no religion - but which religion. 
    Would you say then that God chose you and a few others then relegated everyone else into believing false Gods or no Gods?

    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."



  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Salixes
    making the remaining 9,999 religions false and fraudulent.

    All religions have a measure of truth; some more than others. It is a wide spectrum, even if, relative to TRUTH, there is but TRuth in them. Your premise as quoted does not allow for that spectrum. Religion, as defined by man relative to deity, is not an all-or-nothing proposition, just as, for example, pink is still a percentage of red even if not 100%. Looked at another way, even pink has in it a small measure of 100% red, and a greater degree of less than 100%, and white as well. Politics is no different. Nor, for that matter, is Science.
  • Salixes
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    --> @fauxlaw
    Come on.
    There is not one religion that has even a single ounce of truth about it.

    The reason is that all religions are founded on false premises. 

    Therefore there is nothing truthful about any religion.

    Unless you want to mess with semantics and say something like,  "because religion exists, it is true"
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Salixes
    There is not one religion that has even a single ounce of truth about it.

    The reason is that all religions are founded on false premises. 

    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them" [Matt 7: 12, KJV] This single phrase is duplicated in thought and purpose in at least 20 separate and distinct religions, even by dissimilar use of words in whatever language. Christianity as a whole, not separated into its numerous factions, is but one of them and uses a standard that expresses this exact thought. It is a truth recognized around the world in numerous cultures of separate roots. People just want to get long with themselves, and numerous versions of this phrase exemplify that basic desire. To claim it is not true is to deny so many separate cultures, you end up standing alone in your conviction, but for the few who actually agree with you. It is true by any repeatable and reproducible empiric test you wish to apply.

    That so many cultural religions share this concept is evidence that the claim of nothing truthful about religion is defeated out of hand. In fact, it is so true, it does not depend on religion to prop it up. It does not even mention religion, nor God in its construct. It stands as ethical, lawful truth, without any consideration of religion behind it. It does not mess with semantics. It is the very basis of civilization. It is the first step on the path of trust in one another. We can say with certainty, "Because this concept exists, civilization exists."

  • ethang5
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    --> @fauxlaw
    Very good post Fauxlaw.

    +1

  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    You guys are incredibly ummm,  " lucky "  God got a bunch of guys to write shlt down for him and make a book up out of it so he can leave it behind for you.

  • Manuel_Layba
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    --> @fauxlaw
    It is the very basis of civilization. It is the first step on the path of trust in one another. We can say with certainty, "Because this concept exists, civilization exists."
    How come the Muzlims are reelly religious and they do things like chopping of heads and stuff like the woman arent allowed to go out and they push all the homos of roofs their not civilized.

  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Manuel_Layba
    Really? And Christians had nothing to do with the Crusades, did they? Come on, the list of religions causing havoc with one another would fill a bible. And that's Muslims. Have a care to at least use a proper description, Your bias slip is showing, sweetie.
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    --> @fauxlaw
    The Christians god back then that had them going from door to door killing the " other " types."
    Is he the EXACT same god that the Christians  have now ?



  • fauxlaw
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    Seeing as how "God" is a title, and not a name, who knows? Just as "Allah" is a title, not a name. Or "Christ" is a title, not a name.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @ethang5
    thank you
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @ethang5
    thank you
  • Manuel_Layba
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    --> @fauxlaw

    Really? And Christians had nothing to do with the Crusades, did they? Come on, the list of religions causing havoc with one another would fill a bible. And that's Muslims. Have a care to at least use a proper description, Your bias slip is showing, sweetie.
    Thats a bit dum becuase im not a girl and the christans dont run the counrtys like the muzlims do and any way they dont push the homos of the roofs. And the woman can go to all different shops and niting classes.
  • ethang5
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    --> @Manuel_Layba
    It's no secret and certainly no surprise that it is very easy for DART members to respond to questions since DART actually tells them how to respond.
    Did Dart tell you how to spell too loser? Lol!