I Stand With Greece

Author: SupaDudz ,

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  • SupaDudz
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    Turkey is weaponizing refugees on the border of Turkey and Greece to over flood Greece and the country, removing their people. They are deporting them in ships and are attempting to manipulate the media by beating and burning these people and blaming it on the government. What they are doing is outrageous and terrible. The attempt of over-flooding will bring in huge economic problems, as Greece has one of the highest refugee asylum ratio countries in the EU, and yet Turkey seems to abuse them 

    I stand with Greece
  • skittlez09
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Do you have a source for this? Not arguing just genuinely curious. 
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Typically. All started by the U.S. and their Middle Eastern meddling's. (Ok, so the U.K's lick arse government has to stand shoulder to shoulder.)

    And Turkey is overburdened with refugees, so as the problem is effectively the U.S's, wouldn't it be right and proper to set up refugee camps somewhere in the South Eastern U.S.

    Not In My Back Yard, hey?



  • SupaDudz
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    --> @skittlez09
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @zedvictor4
    We take a lot of refugees, but these refugees are bad refugees from violent nations. They are being armed and cause harm. Turkey should keep them
  • Alec
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    --> @SupaDudz
    but these refugees are bad refugees from violent nations. 
    People are individuals.  In the rare event that they are violent, like if they are rapists or murderers, deportation is too good for them.  Jail sounds like a better and more effective punishment for the violent immigrants.

    If Greece won't take the immigrants, the United States can so there are metaphorically more players on the American team, leading this country to continue to be the best country in the world.

    E Pluribus Unum.  Out of many, one.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Alec
    What are you going on about? How does taking in refugees help us? I'm sure Sweden would disagree with your assessment.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @Alec
    Dumbest thing I’ve heard lately regarding this scenario
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @SupaDudz
    I aswell stand with Greece and am happy to see them stand up against the corrupt NATO that Trump promised to fix but didnt
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Refugees are refugees and you cannot blame them for being angry, considering how we fucked up their lives for them.

    And neither can we blame the Turks, considering how we fucked up their security.
  • Alec
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    How does taking in refugees help us?

    They get jobs and from this, they would be paying a sales tax under my plan.  If we are lucky and they invest too, when they sell the stock they would pay a capitol gains tax.

    I'm sure Sweden would disagree with your assessment.
    They have a rape epidemic there because they think it's racist to punish minority rapists.  I think this claim by the Swedish government is bullshit.  I think if someone rapes someone else, whether immigrant or non immigrant, the penalty should be life in jail with mandatory blood donations every 3 months to save more people.

    Lets say your from Egypt, you come to America and you rape someone.  You've completely destroyed that 1 life, and were partly responsible for the 2nd potential life destroyed in the form of an abortion.  So 2 lives destroyed in the rare event that a migrant is a rapist.  If this person gets jailed for life and has to give blood every 3 months for the rest of their lives when and if caught, assuming they live for 40 more years to where they can donate blood, they can save 320 lives.  If they destroy 2 lives, but end up saving 320 lives in the process, I'd say that's a net gain of life saved.  Also, the vast majority of migrants aren't rapists or murderers or terrorists.  I'd say there are more migrants fleeing terrorism than actual terrorists in the migrant mix.
  • Alec
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Refugees are refugees and you cannot blame them for being angry, considering how we fucked up their lives for them.
    How exactly?

    And neither can we blame the Turks, considering how we fucked up their security.
    How exactly?
  • SupaDudz
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    We literally have been taking in refugees for years now and have been extremely open in welcoming them in the country. I am telling you this from first hand experience. Are country is small and can not handle more, and Turkey is trying to purposely flood the borders by arming refugees and gassing the Greeks. They are abusing their children to paint Greece in a negative way. All of these refugees are bad refugees. They have vandalized and done malicious things. Sometimes enough is enough. We can not be a port for refugees for this extended period of time.

  • Seth
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    No Sweden wouldn't.Just a fact.
  • bmdrocks21
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    I'm sure they love their hand grenade attacks, don't they?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Alec
    Have you been in a Coma for the last decade.

    Yours and unfortunately mine also, have been continuously fucking up the region, supposedly for the good of the people.

    And look what good it's actually done them.

    And now your trying to say...... Who? Us.....Nothing to do with Us.
  • Alec
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    If you were referring to the Iraq invasion, I can see that.  I thought you were referring to imperialism, which the US barely did compared to other European powers despite our size.

  • zedvictor4
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    If you considered Turkey and it's borders and the on the ground reality of the Syrian refugee crisis, you would realise how  the consequences of U.S. led meddling in Syria  was bound to have a huge impact on Turkish security and resources.

    Once again The U.S. creates the problem and then expects everyone else to pick up the pieces.
  • Alec
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    I would say that the military industrial complex needs to be contained.
  • Greyparrot
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    Turkish Meddling:

    The government of Turkey, a NATO member with the alliance's second largest army, had had a relatively friendly relationship with Syria over a decade prior to the start of the civil unrest in Syria in 2011; Turkey, while joining calls for the Syrian government to end the violence,[134] initially objected to the demand voiced in August 2011 by the US that Bashar Assad resign.[69] Turkey trained defectors from the Syrian Army on its territory, and in July 2011 a group of them announced the birth of the Free Syrian Army.[135] In October 2011, Turkey began sheltering the Free Syrian Army, offering the group a safe zone and a base of operation. Together with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Turkey has also provided the rebels with arms and other military equipment. Tensions between Syria and Turkey significantly worsened after Syrian forces shot down a Turkish fighter jet in June 2012 and border clashes in October 2012.[136] In early February 2016, Reuters referred to Turkey as "a major sponsor of the insurgency against President Bashar al-Assad".[137] Turkey provided refuge for Syrian dissidents from early days of the Syrian conflict. In early June 2011, Syrian opposition activists convened in Istanbul to discuss regime change,[138] and Turkey hosted the head of the Free Syrian Army, Colonel Riad al-Asaad.[139] Turkey became increasingly hostile to the Assad government's policies and came to encourage reconciliation among dissident factions. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has tried to "cultivate a favorable relationship with whatever government would take the place of Assad."[140] In May 2012, Syrian opposition forces started to receive arms and training from Turkey and the United States.[141][142] Turkey's subsequent arrangements with Russia and Iran (from early 2017) caused a rift in its relationship with the Syrian opposition, as the opposition leaders criticized Russia's plan to create safe zones in Syria as threatening the country's territorial integrity.[143]
    Turkey maintained a small enclave within Syria itself, the Tomb of Suleyman Shah on the right bank of the Euphrates in Aleppo Province near the village of Qarah Qawzak (Karakozak). The tomb is guarded by a small permanent garrison of Turkish soldiers, who rotate in from a battalion based at the Turkish border some 25 kilometres (16 mi) away—even as the civil war unfolded around them.[144] Up until Syrian forces shot down a Turkish warplane in June 2012, the garrison numbered 15 men in total. Following the incident, the Turkish government doubled the number of soldiers stationed at the tomb to 30, while Prime Minister Erdoğan warned that "the tomb of Suleyman Shah and the land that surrounds it are Turkish territory. Any act of aggression against it would be an attack on our territory and NATO territory." In February 2015, the army launched a raid into Syria in order to move the tomb closer to the border.
    Until September 2014, Turkey did not overtly participate in the international airstrikes against ISIL.[145] Turkey had repeatedly said it wanted the US to focus its air strikes in Syria as much on removing Assad as on fighting the ISIL; it had also demanded a "safe zone" in the area extending from the Syrian town of Kobanî on the Turkish border, westward to the town of Azaz, that would be protected by air power and that was purported to enable Turkey to transfer back to Syria some of an estimated 1.8 million displaced people camped on Turkish territory.[146]


    Joe Biden accused Turkey of supporting jihadis in a speech at Harvard's Kennedy School on October 2, 2014
    In October 2014, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden stated that TurkeySaudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates had "poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Al-Assad, except that the people who were being supplied were al-Nusra, and al Qaeda, and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world."[147]
    On 22 July 2015, Turkey agreed to let the US use the Incirlik Air Base in southern Turkey to launch air attacks against the ISIL, a deal that was seen as a major shift in policy on the part of the once-reluctant American ally[146] (in March 2003, the Turkish parliament voted against allowing Turkey to be a base of operations for the U.S. invasion of Iraq[148]).
    At the end of July 2015, American and Turkish media outlets reported that the US government and Turkey had agreed on the outlines of a de facto "safe zone" along the Turkey-Syria border under the terms of a deal that was purported to increase the scope and pace of the U.S.-led air missions against the ISIL in northern Syria; the plan provided for driving ISIL, the al-Nusra Front, and other radical groups out of a 68-mile-long area west of the Euphrates River and reaching into the province of Aleppo that would then come under the control of the Syrian opposition.[149][150] The operational status of the envisioned area was to stop short of meeting Turkish demands for a full-scale, declared no-fly zone.[149] In August 2015, the US announced it would withdraw two Patriot missile-defense batteries from southern Turkey in the autumn that year;[151] also withdrawn were the German Patriots stationed in Turkey,[152] amidst concerns in the NATO military establishment that Turkey was intent on dragging NATO into the Syrian conflict.[153]
    In late July 2015, the outlawed PKK, designated as a terrorist organization by UN, EU and many countries including USA as well as Turkey, resumed fighting against the government in the Kurdish-dominated southeastern parts of Turkey. On 29 June 2015, Turkey′s National Security Council made a decision and released a statement that said that Turkey would consider any incursion west of the Euphrates in northern Syria along the Turkish border (the area between Jarablus in the east and the AzazMare' region in the west) by Kurdish YPG militia, backed by the Democratic Union Party (PYD), as well as any attack north of Idlib by Syrian government forces to be a violation of the “red line.”[154] (The PYD is deemed by Turkey to be the Syrian affiliate of PKK, but it is actively aided by the U.S.[154]) At the end of October 2015, Turkish prime minister Ahmet Davutoğlu claimed that Turkey had struck Kurdish YPG militia fighters in Syria twice for the alleged breach of the "red line"; the YPG′s statements said that the Turkish army had twice attacked its positions near the border towns of Tell Abyad and Kobanî.[155] In mid-November 2015, president Recep Erdoğan reaffirmed this threat not to allow Kurdish YPG militia to cross over to the western side of the Euphrates along the Turkish border.[156]


    Turkish-occupied territory (red) and SDF-controlled territory (green) in December 2018
    On 24 November 2015, speaking shortly after the shootdown of a Russian Su-24 by Turkey, Russian president Vladimir Putin characterised the role played by Turkey in the Syrian conflict as that of "the accomplices of terrorists."[157][158] Russia′s foreign minister Sergey Lavrov claimed that the Turkish plan to create a buffer zone in the area where Syrian Turkmen lived in northern Syria stemmed from Ankara's wish "to protect local terrorist infrastructure." [159][160] Many Turkish and Western analysts as well as officials questioned that ISIL oil was being imported into Turkey, argued that Moscow′s accusations of the Turkish government in this regard were unfounded.[161][162]
    In late November 2015, following Russian President Putin directly accusing Turkey of aiding ISIL and al-Qaeda, Turkey came under pressure from the US to close the remaining crossing point for ISIL militants on a 60-mile stretch of the border with Syria where ISIL had control of the Syrian side.[163]
    On 2 December 2015, Russia′s military officials presented what they referred to as "only part of the available facts" that proved that Turkey′s president Recep Erdogan and his family were personally involved in a multimillion-dollar oil smuggling operation that funded ISIL terrorists.[164][165][166][167] The accusations were seen as further drastic escalation of tensions between Turkey and Russia that has its military personnel and advanced weapons openly deployed in Syria.[165] Both the Turkish government and the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government (KRG) denied this.[168][169] Commenting on the allegations, John R. Bass, the US Ambassador to Turkey, told the press that the claims about the Turkish government's involvement in ISIL oil trade were unfounded, citing the official apology issued by the CIA with regards to the allegations in 2014.[170][171]
    On 24 February 2015, president Erdogan speaking on television of the tentative plan for a cessation of hostilities in Syria announced by Russia and the US two days prior, accused the UN, the West, Russia and Iran of seeking to further their own interests in Syria and said he feared a U.S.-Russian ceasefire plan would do little more than benefit Syria′s president Bashar Assad.[172]
    In late December 2015, in an interview for Al Arabiya Turkey′s president Recep Erdogan said, "Syria, Iran, Iraq and Russia have formed a quartet alliance in Baghdad and asked Turkey to join, but I told President [Vladimir] Putin that I cannot sit alongside a president whose legitimacy is distrustful."[173]
    After Syria′s Kurdish YPG militia captured Syria′s Menagh Airbase and several settlements north of Aleppo near the border with Turkey, Turkey on 13 February 2016 began a sustained campaign of shelling the YPG positions in the area of Azaz from its territory.[174][175][176] In response to this action qualified by Syria as a violation of its sovereignty as well as the alleged infiltration into Syria of "Turkish soldiers or Turkish mercenaries", the Syrian government requested that the UN Security Council take action.[177] The attempt by Russia on 19 February 2016 to have an appropriate resolution adopted by the UN Security Council was undermined by Western powers, including the US, the UK, and France.[178][179]
    Since August 2016, the Turkish military have conducted a series of cross-border operations in Syria, mainly fighting against the Kurdish YPG militia forces, supported by the U.S., that controlled the northern parts of Syria.

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Alec
    Wikipedia lists 14 countries by name that meddled in the Syrian Civil war along with numerous non-state actors and companies.

    That's plenty of blame to spread these refugees around.
  • Alec
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    That's plenty of blame to spread these refugees around.
    The thing is though, why reject refugees to begin with?  Immigration is a good thing because it does wonders for the economy.  Look at what it did to the UAE.  They are much richer than Saudi Arabia in terms of GDP per capita and standard of living and the UAE allows for immigration whereas the Saudis don't I think.

    Open borders is small government.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Unfortunately, if you assume a position at the top of the tree. Then that is where ultimately the responsibility should end up too. 
    Though I'm certainly not saying that lick arse administrations such as here in the U.K. shouldn't also shoulder a certain amount of the responsibility too.

    I think that it's fair to say that Turkey has always been caught between a rock and a hard place, both strategically and culturally and I think that it is also fair to say that up until now Turkey has done it's utmost to contain and alleviate the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis.

    The regime that held Syria together as a Nation was comparatively hard line and imperfect in the eyes of the West, but the West's misunderstanding, dissociated intolerance and therefore inaccurate understanding of cultural comparisons was always inevitably going to result in chaos once that the Assad regime was weakened. Lessons from the Iraq debacle we never learned or perhaps more likely were ignored. Why?

    And so the chaos moves on and now Greece is caught between the rock and a hard place, exacerbated by regional history and ongoing tensions with it's neighbour and rival.

    Western cultural bias tends to be as ever and that bias, will as ever creep westward as the problem also does so. 
    And the U.S in it's position of relative isolation, as ever will sit and point the finger and blame every one else and comfortably say Not In My Back Yard thank you.

    And Russia also knows which side it's bread is buttered, thank you.
  • Greyparrot
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    Can't disagree with any of that.
  • SupaDudz
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    You are demanding to enter my ancient homeland. Many have demanded to entry Ellas. If you look to our eastern borders the word OXI has been written in blood on mountains of Pindou. Please read your own ancient history about Persian who said let us pass. Ask the Nazis how they did in Greece during world war II. The Hellenic government said that all asylum cases have been stopped for one month. This is not an unreasonable request. You need to wait and be processed, it's basic government. If you want to go to other European countries as you say, go enter their ports of entry. Your welcome to fly to Germany, Spain, Italy, Neitherland, Sweden, France, and demand entry. Why are you going through Greece? Maybe the reason is that most of you are illegal immigrants and not refugees and have conned by Turkey to enter, seeing as they are our rivals. Let's face the truth we don't want you and can't take care of you.