Coronavirus Relief Bill and College Students

Author: triangle.128k ,

Posts

Total: 18
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 403
1
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
1
2
6
So, after Democrats stalled a stimulus relief bill over the virus fiasco to blab about political topics irrelevant to the crisis, it appears a settlement has been reached to provide $1200 to every American below a certain income bracket along with $500 for each child under 17. However, adults within the age bracket of 18-24 (or was it 26?) are not eligble to receieve $1200 if they are listed as a dependency to an adult. Typically, this includes college students.

So roughly everybody in America except for college students (or those wealthy enough) are receiving TrumpBux. 

Thoughts? Could this be to increase the profits of usurous lenders over student loans?
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @triangle.128k
The whole damn thing is a mess. Companies that don't even need any help are getting billions. People who desperately need help are getting a fraction of what they need to stay alive. This bill is not intended to help americans. It is intended to help the rich and powerful. It will help the kind of people who write big checks to the democratic and republican party. They will make out like bandits while the poor suffer. 
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 403
1
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
1
2
6
--> @HistoryBuff
You're not wrong.
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,360
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
--> @triangle.128k
even though I qualify, I don't like it, it's more debt and b.s. spending that the democrats put in the bill, more government waste at out expense.  If we had or even had a hope of a balanced budget then maybe but the way things are now, this won't help imo but make our collective situations worse in the long run.  If this money was coming from cuts of b.s. and waste, that would be better, but again all the extra stuff should NOT be allowed.
Imabench
Imabench's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 933
3
4
9
Imabench's avatar
Imabench
3
4
9
Im more annoyed at the fact that Airlines and Cruise Ship companies are getting money when we should be fucking leaving them out to crash and burn. 

Airlines were already making good profit from lower fuel prices thanks to domestic fracking and the Saudi's trying to price-fuck Russia out of profitability, but rather then save some reserves the airlines spent damn near all of their money buying back their own stock at high prices before they ended up crashing anyways. The fact that they would fuck up this badly not even 2 decades after they had to be bailed out after 9/11 and almost had to be bailed out again when travel dropped in 2009 shows widespread industry incompetence.... 

Cruise ship industries meanwhile have deliberately established their Headquarters in other countries in the Caribbean to avoid US tax laws. Carnival Cruise lines are stationed out of Panama, the Bahamas, and Malta yet I think 80% of their income comes from the fuckin US. Why should companies that deliberately operate outside US tax law be able to obtain billions of US bailout funding? 




HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @Imabench
totally agree. They wasted huge sums of money on stock buy backs that are just designed to boost their stock price. Now they come begging and crying, pleading poverty when they burned their own cash reserves.

They have learned the lessons of the past. The corporatists in charge of both the republican and democratic parties will never let their businesses die. So they can do whatever they want and the government will just bail them out while leaving the poor to starve. 
Mharman
Mharman's avatar
Debates: 12
Posts: 2,303
2
4
9
Mharman's avatar
Mharman
2
4
9
--> @triangle.128k
So basically, aid for the poor except for college kids.
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @Mharman
So basically, aid for the poor except for college kids.
no, not really. It is aid for people who can jump through hoops of bureaucracy proving they are the right kind of poor. They will make poor people fight for $1,200 while they throw trillions at rich people and corporations no questions asked with no accountability at all. 
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 9,119
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
--> @Imabench
you make a good point
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,080
4
6
10
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
10
--> @Imabench
I find it odd that people of essentially every political persuasion can agree with what you just said, but this bill got passed essentially unopposed by both political parties. Perhaps this is why voter turnout is so shit- no matter who you vote for, it is the same corrupt bullshit of us getting taxed one way or another to pay for special interests.

Fuck cruiselines that don’t employ many Americans and (as you point out) do everything they can to avoid our taxes. Fuck incompetent airlines, and fuck globalism, which has shafted American workers and put our medical personnel at the mercy of China, who produces most of our medical gear.
Imabench
Imabench's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 933
3
4
9
Imabench's avatar
Imabench
3
4
9
--> @bmdrocks21
But this bill got passed essentially unopposed by both political parties. Perhaps this is why voter turnout is so shit- no matter who you vote for, it is the same corrupt bullshit of us getting taxed one way or another to pay for special interests.
<br>
I think both sides were just too chicken-shit to actually try to question whether or not an industry should get bailout money. This was a bill that arguably needed to be passed more than any in history, it would almost be career suicide if someone tried to hold it up because of an objection they had over singular provisions in it. 

Hopefully the next time one of these stimulus packages is passed the issue can be brought up, or maybe have an entire session sort it out on a side note entirely. 
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @Imabench
I think both sides were just too chicken-shit to actually try to question whether or not an industry should get bailout money. This was a bill that arguably needed to be passed more than any in history, it would almost be career suicide if someone tried to hold it up because of an objection they had over singular provisions in it. 
but the dems did oppose it. They forced the republicans to make concessions. The concessions they wanted were just stupid. They made no attempt to put any curbs on the blatant theft from taxpayers or put in stronger measures to help working people. The issue isn't that they couldn't have opposed those things, the issue is that they do not oppose those things. Both the democrats and republicans believe the same things. They're both corporatists. 

bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,080
4
6
10
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
10
--> @HistoryBuff
The real issue is how politics works. The Republicans made a really good political move that dicked the Democrats. They made a bill that had some good and some bad provisions. They publicized the easily-recognizable benefits, but the Democrats couldn’t pass the bill because of the complex “bad” things. They then looked terrible for blocking the good relief. The Democrats then tried to do the same thing, but their bill had very noticeably unrelated items in it. 

Nobody wanted to get stuck with the blame for not getting aid to the Americans that needed it, so a very imperfect bill was passed.
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @bmdrocks21
The real issue is how politics works. The Republicans made a really good political move that dicked the Democrats. They made a bill that had some good and some bad provisions.
so you recognize that the republicans intentionally created a terrible bill during a national emergency to try to screw over political rivals? They are literally letting americans die and be financially ruined for political points. I'm guessing that doesn't make you reconsider your support for them for even a second. 
<br>

bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,080
4
6
10
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
10
--> @HistoryBuff
Well, I believe it was a bill more tenable than the ones that Democrats offered, with solar and wind tax credits of all things..... Also trying to eliminate voter ID. Republicans' bill was an easy fix. Democrats did the same exact thing- holding Americans hostage to push a stupid agenda. Republicans just wanted a lot of money with no supervision, not attempting to make huge changes to the way our country operates.

And btw, I don't like the Republicans, but unfortunately because of our two party system, I have to vote for them because I hate them less than the Democrats.
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @bmdrocks21
Well, I believe it was a bill more tenable than the ones that Democrats offered, with solar and wind tax credits of all things.....
because investing in future technologies is bad.... for some reason.

Also trying to eliminate voter ID.
because in a democracy, people being able to vote without having to jump through hoops is bad.... for some reason....

Republicans' bill was an easy fix.
yeah, shovel as much taxpayer money as possible to billionaires as fast as possible. Super easy. Doesn't fix anything though. 

Democrats did the same exact thing- holding Americans hostage to push a stupid agenda.
democracy and investing in new technology.... how evil. 

Republicans just wanted a lot of money with no supervision, not attempting to make huge changes to the way our country operates.
they wanted to bleed taxpayers of trillions of dollars so they can funnel it to the richest people in america. That is a horrible plan. 


bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,080
4
6
10
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
10
--> @HistoryBuff
because investing in future technologies is bad.... for some reason.


Personally, I have no issue with the tax credits. But that is something that should be pushed in a separate bill. It has nothing to do with helping out Americans affected by this crisis, and its intention was to cause a partisan divide. 

because in a democracy, people being able to vote without having to jump through hoops is bad.... for some reason....

Voter fraud is bad for democracy.

You're missing the point. You can disagree or agree with a lot of what they tried to put in the bill. The point is that a crisis is no time to attempt to slip pork barrel BS into a bill to further your ideology. The bill's sole purpose should be to help Americans as quickly as possible. If the American people want these unrelated things, they will elect you in the future so you can pass them. 

For instance, I would agree with a third-trimester abortion ban. However, if Republicans put that provision in a bill meant to aid workers put out of a job because of Coronavirus, I would be pissed that they are taking advantage of a crisis to sneakily push an agenda.

yeah, shovel as much taxpayer money as possible to billionaires as fast as possible. Super easy. Doesn't fix anything though. 

It was easy to fix to make it accepted by the other side. Simply add oversight and then they have no problem passing it. Other items like voter ID need to be taken out entirely. There is no fixing that part of the bill. It doesn't belong there.

democracy and investing in new technology.... how evil. 

Nice framing. Holding Americans hostage to push tax credits and hoping to increase voter fraud. See? I can frame things too. Doesn't contribute much to the discussion, though.

they wanted to bleed taxpayers of trillions of dollars so they can funnel it to the richest people in america. That is a horrible plan. 

And the Democrats are complicit in it. Don't try to make this all about Republicans. I'm angry about it, too. Every day the news is making me much more populist.

HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,272
3
3
2
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
2
--> @bmdrocks21
Personally, I have no issue with the tax credits. But that is something that should be pushed in a separate bill. It has nothing to do with helping out Americans affected by this crisis, and its intention was to cause a partisan divide. 
It was something that is objectively good for america that republicans refuse to enact due to partisan and corrupt reasons. Why is it a bad thing to try to pass an objectively good thing?

Voter fraud is bad for democracy.
There is no evidence there has ever been significant amounts of voter fraud. 

You're missing the point. You can disagree or agree with a lot of what they tried to put in the bill. The point is that a crisis is no time to attempt to slip pork barrel BS into a bill to further your ideology. The bill's sole purpose should be to help Americans as quickly as possible. If the American people want these unrelated things, they will elect you in the future so you can pass them. 
you appear to be missing the point. This was extremely relevant to the crisis. Having people go into cramped election booths is a surefire way to spread corona virus. Having people vote by mail is a way to have elections, but not spread deadly diseases. Trump was pretty clear, if you passed a law where everyone could vote easily would destroy the republicans because the only reason they are able to win is by suppressing the vote. Their concern is not voter fraud, it is that people would actually vote. 

It was easy to fix to make it accepted by the other side. Simply add oversight and then they have no problem passing it.
Just because both sides are extremely corrupt does not make it acceptable. It makes them both reprehensible that they chose a crisis to try to make their donors richer. 

Other items like voter ID need to be taken out entirely. There is no fixing that part of the bill. It doesn't belong there.
of course it does, we need remote voting in order to have safe elections. We need to start implementing this stuff now to have it ready for the next presidential election.

Nice framing. Holding Americans hostage to push tax credits and hoping to increase voter fraud. See? I can frame things too. Doesn't contribute much to the discussion, though.
it doesn't hold americans hostage. It is called negotiating. Trump wants to dump billions into companies that don't need any help. The democrats wanted to invest in technology that would help america's future. But for some reason the democrats are the problem?

And the Democrats are complicit in it. Don't try to make this all about Republicans. I'm angry about it, too. Every day the news is making me much more populist.
agreed. The corporatist dems are fundamentally republicans. Their economic policies are extremely similar (corrupt and corporatist). The only difference between the 2 parties is social policy.