Why do progressives assume that the police system is broken and must be defunded?

Author: fauxlaw

Posts

Total: 13
Topic's author
#1
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
Why do progressives assume that the police system is broken and must be defunded? IN MN, the MPD is 800 offers. Four of them are bad apples. That's 0.05%. Is that a broken system, or a minor number of bad actors. You're going to eliminate the force for that??? Not only is that ill-advised, it must be news to the M-City Council that it also happens to be contrary to the City Charter. oops. 

What happened to working within the system already established. I'm talking abut the judicial system as established by the Constitution of the United States, and that of every State in the Union. You know, the system in which suspects are charge, the prosecution pleads its case, and the evidence either convicts bad actors, or defense successfully denies it. Tat's how it's done, folks, and it has worked for 230 years. What's change? A clock? Sorry, no clocks in the Constitution other than expecting results in a reasonable period of timer. If that's not immediate from care to conviction, that's too damn bad. It still works much more often than it doesn't.

Meanwhile, how many backs have been murdered by other blacks in our city streets since George Floyd was killed, and why is no one marching for them? Don't those black lives matter, too?



Nope and that's painfully obvious, isn't it?

#2
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,263
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@fauxlaw
Whether or not lives matter is a philosophical question, hijacked by a mob as an excuse for violence and rioting in the name of counter-racism.

As you rightly point out...Lives only matter when it suits.

And inherent racism is far from exclusive.


#3
Danielle
Danielle's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 2,049
3
3
4
Danielle's avatar
Danielle
3
3
4
-->
@fauxlaw
IN MN, the MPD is 800 offers. Four of them are bad apples.

The systemic problem of racism and corruption in law enforcement has been rampant for many years. Minnesota has a history of police misconduct, though the movement certainly isn't limited to that state.


What happened to working within the system already established. I'm talking abut the judicial system as established by the Constitution of the United States, and that of every State in the Union. You know, the system in which suspects are charge, the prosecution pleads its case, and the evidence either convicts bad actors, or defense successfully denies it. Tat's how it's done, folks, and it has worked for 230 years. What's change? A clock? Sorry, no clocks in the Constitution other than expecting results in a reasonable period of timer. If that's not immediate from care to conviction, that's too damn bad. It still works much more often than it doesn't.

Policing has gotten progressively more militant and the Supreme Court has had to curb over-policing through the years. So no, the methods of policing are certainly not concrete and they certainly have not remained the same for 230 years. 

Meanwhile, how many backs have been murdered by other blacks - Don't those black lives matter, too?
Yes. Black people are convicted when they are caught killing other black people.

White people (especially cops) often get away with little to no punishment for killing a black person - that's one of the issues being highlighted. Cops often kill black people because they automatically fear them - that's one of the issues being highlighted. Black neighborhoods are overpoliced leading to higher crime rates (and the cyclical nature of poverty and crime once you have a criminal record) which is another issue being highlighted. 

I'm not sure why you would focus on black on black crime as if that undermines the problematic nature of the issues being highlighted. Do you? 

#4
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,263
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Danielle
Sociologically, crime is it's own problem, irrespective of skin tone.

And as I stated.... Racism is not exclusive.....Though some people prefer to think that it is.
#5
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
United Negro college fund, Miss Black America etc etc  We assume someone is from Africa because of their skin color?  What if they are from Jamaica, Hati, Dominican republic, Australian aborigines?  Are they still "African Americans"?    
anyone find it ironic we classify an entire group by their skin color no matter where they came from?  We identify one group by their skin color and really nothing else, that IS their identity apparently.
this does not sound like people who want to be treated equally, integrate but rather their only identity and characteristic is the color of their skin seemingly.  There seems to be a real lack of comprehension about this is staggering imo.

they don't even "police" their own communities which is painfully obvious with places like Chicago, but NOW they are going to do that???????  The violent crime is disproportionately committed by black men and nothing has been done to address that or it can't be addressed.  So the answer is to defund the police and go to more community based systems?  I'm not sure how they are trying to square that circle.
Topic's author
#6
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
I am intrigued that not a single response has yet noted either by rebuttal or support that it is progressives who are rattling the sabres of systemic change of police forces. Why is it that only progressives want fundamental [i.e. constitutional] change in America as advocated by Barack Obama in 2004 in his keynote address at the DNC, four years before his Presidential campaign, and two years before his Senate campaign? Destabilizing the Constitution is progress? Since when and by what logic? Progressivism is retrograde, at best.
#7
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@fauxlaw
I just heard something rather disturbing but can't remember the exact details as I was in the car.  the gist of it, someone was questioning why police have to respond to domestic disturbances carrying guns and some other insane situations that I, personally, would not go to without a gun.  Progressives want power and control, so while in certain instances they are anarchanist still others tolleterian.  They want the freedom to commit crimes and kill their own so long as no one else does.  Like protecting your favorite hunting or fishing spot.
Black lives do matter as do all, except in places like Chicago, Baltimore, D.C. etc  places the democrats have ran and controlled for many decades and have done what exactly to preserve those black lives, if they believe they mattered.  
let's not forget in 2016 the guy the cops killed by kneeling on him, remember those riots?  oh I forgot he was white, my bad.
#8
Christen
Christen's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 332
1
4
7
Christen's avatar
Christen
1
4
7
-->
@fauxlaw
There was a debate last year about the infamous Black Lives Matter group, if you're interested in seeing ideas about that group from different perspectives.
Topic's author
#9
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@Christen
thx I'll look it up. I wasn't here, then
#10
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,263
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Just talk your own rhetoric through in your head (#5)….Can you not see the obvious flaw in your reasoning (bias)….The problem is always the other sort.

This is not a criticism...I'm just pointing out how the reality of the human condition and human conditioning (in relation to perceivable difference), is clearly emphasised in your post.

If we don't teach our kids that we are all from Planet Earth and therefore all basically the same, then you will never end up with an adult population that is integrated...lighter skin tone or darker skin tone, makes no difference to the shared problem.
#11
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
If we don't teach our kids that we are all from Planet Earth and therefore all basically the same, then you will never end up with an adult population that is integrated...lighter skin tone or darker skin tone, makes no difference to the shared problem.
I totally agree, but can that happen when there are special services, organizations etc which basically all you need to do to qualify for is have the correct about of melanin in your skin?  There are dark skinned people from places other than Africa as well.  Do you think they are willing to give those things up that only they can qualify for or belong to because of the color of their skin?  How do you teach our kids that we are all basically the same when these programs, special clubs and organizations obviously do NOT show we are the same?  how about hate crime laws?  some are punished more which makes them more valuable?  If someone is murdered but determined it's a "hate crime" of a protected group they are sentenced more harshly.  If the punishment for murder did not deter this person from murdering you think this additional hate crime charge will?

so much pandering which does not treat everyone equal so how could children be taught that we are?
#12
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,263
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Exactly.

Q. How do you change the human world.

A. It slowly changes itself. (Evolution)

There has been an appreciable change in both British and U.S. societies in the past 60 years since I was born....That didn't happen overnight just because a light skinned cop killed a dark skinned guy and people violently protested...Though these sort of events are nonetheless all part of the slow process of change.



#13
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@zedvictor4
it's illogical in my mind to want equality by having special things only available to certain people, somehow making inequalities makes people equal.  Everyone is the same, except for "African Americans" the rest of the people are just Americans.  Why these obvious difference can't be seen is beyond me.  Either accept and stop trying to fight the differences or don't and stop this bs of equality, one people etc.