I despise everyone who voted for Donald Trump and further resent those who still support him now.

Author: RationalMadman

Posts

Total: 151
Topic's author
#121
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Vader
Twitter cries are what Trump does. Trump is a confirmed chronic liar. Try again. He almost declared War on Iran, forgrtting the Constitution doesn't let the President just do that on a whim unless it's defensive.

Biden's Twitter posts actually are accurate.

#122
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,869
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ethang5
It will be new to you, British politics being so serious and mature. ; )

I see what you did there.
#123
BiblicalChristian101
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 9
0
0
3
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
BiblicalChristian101
0
0
3
-->
@RationalMadman
I support Trump, want to debate? I find that if you are willing to listen and have a good conversation with a Trump supporter you will understand better why they support him. This is the reason why I enjoy trying to have conversations with people from other points of view so I can know where they are coming from.
#124
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 12,463
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Vader
Maybe a bit less. 50-55 maybe?
No way. People hate Joe. Easily 65-70. It’s gonna be worse than Tea Party. I promise you that. About half of Biden supports are voting for him just because they’re anti-Trump. They’re not coming out in 2022 if Joe wins.
#125
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 12,463
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@BiblicalChristian101
I support Trump, want to debate? I find that if you are willing to listen and have a good conversation with a Trump supporter you will understand better why they support him. This is the reason why I enjoy trying to have conversations with people from other points of view so I can know where they are coming from.
It’s not going to work. We’ve been trying for ages. Plus he’s British so it doesn’t even matter. 
Topic's author
#126
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Envisage
Please explain how, in the system you deem broken, one concludes that Trump is the lesser evil. 
Topic's author
#127
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@BiblicalChristian101
I'd rather discuss on PMs but sure, explain.
#128
BiblicalChristian101
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 9
0
0
3
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
BiblicalChristian101
0
0
3
-->
@ILikePie5
I know, just making sure he doesn't have an excuse.
#129
BiblicalChristian101
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 9
0
0
3
BiblicalChristian101's avatar
BiblicalChristian101
0
0
3
-->
@RationalMadman
We can PM if you want. Ask me what you want to know.
#130
Envisage
Envisage's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 48
0
0
2
Envisage's avatar
Envisage
0
0
2
-->
@RationalMadman
@Envisage
Please explain how, in the system you deem broken, one concludes that Trump is the lesser evil. 
Consider yourself a person with relatively conservative views.

This might be hard but you'll have to try to understand the point.

Consider yourself largely leaning in the conservative direction in most major issues. You don't think gays should be allowed to marry, you think reducing cooperate tax is genuinely the right move for the economy and jobs. You believe that the US's religious heritage is important to preserve, you are anti abortion etc. Etc.

You don't even need to hold extreme views on this, just that you generally agree with those statements.

Now you have a system that forces you to choose between Hillary and Trump. Hillary is pretty much the antithesis of everything you believe in, and even though you feel Trump is incompetent, or will do a poor job at supporting his party, it is still in your view more likely to give an outcome closer to what you value than what Hillary will give.

That's a large percentage of Trump voter's positions. 

Now if you had a system closer to for example Germany's, then you would have several candidates that will be represented in government. In Germany it's at least six parties. If Trump and Hillary ran in such a government then would be trump voter's would be far more likely to support a moderate candidate that closer represents their views and would not be forced to make a lesser of two evils choice.

While from your perspective Trump is the greater of two evils - someone with different values to you will "obviously" - in their view - disagree.





Topic's author
#131
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Envisage
What are Conservative views? You mean prejudice, bloodline elitism and tax evasion? What do you mean exactly?
Topic's author
#132
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Envisage
I fully agree with you on proportional representation.
#133
Envisage
Envisage's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 48
0
0
2
Envisage's avatar
Envisage
0
0
2
-->
@RationalMadman
What are Conservative views? You mean prejudice, bloodline elitism and tax evasion? What do you mean exactly?
I listed the examples in my post, worded closer to the way that conservatives will tend to believe them.

You can disagree with their stances on it but they are still stances they take, and thus they will vote for a candidate that will represent those stances more closely, and not vote for someone who will do the exact opposite of those stances.

The lack of any PR system means that no matter how retarded the republican candidate is, they will feel forced to vote for it. If we had 3 conservative parties with a. Range of views, then they would perhaps vote for a non retarded conservative candidate, even if they differ on their stances somewhat. E.g. they might support universal healthcare but agree on the rest of their stances.

Sadly you don't have that, so they are stuck with Trump.



Topic's author
#134
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Envisage
I agree with you on PR, the question is how to get it done.
#135
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
It isn't worshipping black people to realise that the white are privileged relative to other races, especially in US.

All privilege is individual. White people in trailer parks have no privilege.

Black kids in Beverly Hills do.

The only systemic racism is affirmative action/diversity hire programs.
#136
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,869
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
The only systemic racism is affirmative action/diversity hire programs.

Pretty much any government program that has a checkbox for your skin tone is systemic racism.
Topic's author
#137
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
While I agree, the trailer parkers self-destructively vote Republican and that's a fucking travesty.

Poverty is an issue and it's unfortunate that due to past enslavement and resultant lack of financial inheritance, the black race in particular is so far behind.

#138
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
Well, the trailer parks voted for Trump because he promised to bring back manufacturing jobs and stop bringing in immigrant laborers that undercut their wages.

Hasn't been too good on those. But that is what they wanted and what he said he would give them. Now, voting for a Romney or McCain type would have been self-destructive to them.
Topic's author
#139
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
A poor person voting for any Repuclican would be self-destructive. Thanks for agreeing.
#140
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
I clearly didn't agree. Trump has gotten rid of trade agreements, which had previously hurt our manufacturing base. He is taking on China in a trade war, as they steal our IP and use slave wages and dumping to kill our factories.

He has done well, but has a lot more to do. Bill Clinton abandoned unions and signed NAFTA. Democrat entitlement programs have killed the family by replacing fathers with a government check.

Voting for literally any establishment politician is self-destructive for a poor person. That is why they chose Trump over Hitlery.
Topic's author
#141
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
No it isn't. I will continue to repeat the very obvious fact that Trump is esablishment and has even funded Hillary and Romney in their campaigns against Obama as well as him having many 'friends in high places'. That aside, being 'establishment' isn't reason to denounce anyone, not even Trump. Establishment simply means that the person is influential and capable of making big moves if they want to, those who are not 'establishment' cannot do much good while in power because they don't have the right connections or experience to 'grease the wheels'.

When Democrats are in power they use their influence to generally even things out for the poor, albeit never close to a socialist level. When Republicans are in power they use their influence to help the rich get richer.
#142
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
We could argue whether or not Trump is indeed "establishment". That really is irrelevant, though. It was the fact that during the 2016 election, he was perceived as populist, which is against the establishment.

And "establishment" has a negative connotation in the country right now. It is synonymous with corruption. They believe the establishment over the past decades has abandoned them and hasn't fought for their interest.
Topic's author
#143
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
I agree to everything in your post because everything in your post supports it being deceptive and based on perception, not reality, that Trump garnered the support that he did.
#144
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
I'm not sure if he made the claims to be deceptive, but I agree that he didn't get many important things done that he said he would.

A lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle, as well as liberal judges, have blocked a lot of things, too.

But he is to blame for not getting things done through EOs when possible.

Seems to be too scared of losing reelection that he isn't acting like his 2016 self. Pandering for votes, trying not to upset the immigration lobby, etc.
Topic's author
#145
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
Since you're the only person defending Right-wing, in this thread, that has admitted the truth, I will like to ask you about the Central Park Five and Trump's rwfusal to apologise, let alone his public encouragement and sideline participation in the incident. 

Why do you think Trump funded Hillary and Romney? Is it to do with him truly being racist on a deep level? There's a pattern you cannot deny.

#146
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@RationalMadman
I’d have to do research on the “Central Park five”.

To be fair, I liked Trump based on what he ran on in 2016. I figured he may have changed, as I know he used to be a Democrat not too long ago. So that would explain donating to those people. 

There are two options: Trump is an opportunist who was good at reading the current political climate, or due to lack of political savvy, he has allowed himself to be surrounded by corrupt people who have no interest in his 2016 vision. We shall see moving forward which is more likely.
#147
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,203
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@ethang5
Too right.
Topic's author
#148
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 561
Posts: 19,888
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
It is not option 2. Lol
#149
Envisage
Envisage's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 48
0
0
2
Envisage's avatar
Envisage
0
0
2
-->
@RationalMadman
I don't know.

But what I stated is an explanation for how an otherwise reasonable conservative person would end up voting for Trump. Which is the topic here.

And everything I stayed here gets turned up to the extreme with media echo chambers, including partisan news networks and social media.

A person who is a moderate Christian who believes marriage really should only be the purposes of sustaining children will be inundated with content and articles with more extreme anti-gay stances.

A person who thinks that humans have a soul will be inundated with every article and video on how abortion is evil, murder and an atrocity.

If that's all you hear than I don't blame people for taking more extreme views than they otherwise would. Again leading for extreme actors such as Trump to get support where they otherwise would have lacked it.


#150
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,864
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@RationalMadman
Ya, what ever. The feeling is mutual. I put up with fuck boy Obama for 8 years. Now it's your turn.