which conservatives were right in the LGBT civil rights supreme court case?

Author: n8nrgmi ,

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 160
  • n8nrgmi
    n8nrgmi avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 752
    2
    2
    3
    n8nrgmi avatar
    n8nrgmi
    the civil rights act prohibits discriminating on the basis of sex. so you can't be fired if you are female. the liberals of the court and two conservatives, said that 'sex' is vague enough in the statute to include transexuals too, since they are defined based on 'sex'. and, the text of the law says you can't discriminate "because of sex", so the that wing of the court also said the rest of the LGBTQ gang, including gays, are also protected, i guess cause they have sex with who they choose. with all this said, the rest of the conservatives said that the court should have stuck with 'ordinary meaning' in interpreting the statute, not literal meaning. that's a compelling point, cause ordinary people write and read laws, and perhaps that should be the basis of interpretation. a policy point in favor of the progressives is that the law could have been more specific, and since most people think it's wrong to discriminate against gays, maybe we should afford them some protection too, give them the benefit of the doubt.  i know conservatives are willing to look at original meaning when the text is not clear.... so is the text not clear here? you could argue it is, or it isn't, and your policy preferences will surely color your choice. 

    what do you think and why? 
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @n8nrgmi
    Which case are you referring to?

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,963
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @n8nrgmi
    I kinda think they were both right. Gays should have the same protections as women, but the SCOTUS really needs to have Congress do these changes to the law.
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @Greyparrot @n8nrgmi
    Here’s a controversial statement for both sides of the aisle: 
    Gender and skin tone should not be used to consider one’s eligibility for a job.

  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @Greyparrot
    but the SCOTUS really needs to have Congress do these changes to the law.
    +1000
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    I personally don’t care if you’re gay bi or les. What you do in your house is on you. Trans on the other hand to me is a problem. Sex and gender should be the same think
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    I personally don’t care if you’re gay bi or les. What you do in your house is on you. Trans on the other hand to me is a problem.
    So...

    You don't care about who they sleep with, but you do care about what they think about themselves and/or what they do with their bodies. OK then...
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    Gender = Sociological
    Sex = Biological

    Change my mind
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    You don't care about who they sleep with, but you do care about what they think about themselves and/or what they do with their bodies.
    They can think what they want. Doesn’t make them that.
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    Gender = Sociological
    Sex = Biological

    Change my mind
    There are only 2 genders
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    They can think what they want. Doesn’t make them that.
    Does it affect you personally?

    There are only 2 genders
    Wrong.

    And if we go with your definition of gender:

  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    Does it affect you personally?
    Sure, I’m im forced to call you ma’am when you’re sir.

    Wrong.

    And if we go with your definition of gender:
    Still wrong
    an individual having reproductive organs or external sexual characteristics of both male and female.
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    Sure, I’m im forced to call you ma’am when you’re sir.
    How much does that affect you personally?

    an individual having reproductive organs or external sexual characteristics of both male and female.
    So according to your dichotomous view on sex/gender, are they male or female? 
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    How much does that affect you personally?
    Transgender people forcing me to say they’re dudes instead of gals.

    So according to your dichotomous view on sex/gender, are they male or female?
    Depends. Do they have XX or XY? Plus intersex people aren’t transgender.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,963
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @ILikePie5
    Gender Dysphoria is very closely related to schizophrenia.
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @Greyparrot
    Gender Dysphoria is very closely related to schizophrenia.
    I never said trans people aren’t people. I just think they need help 🤷‍♂️
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    Transgender people forcing me to say they’re dudes instead of gals.
    So calling others what they want to be called and acknowledging their self-identity affects you personally? Ok bimbo.

    Depends. Do they have XX or XY?
    What if they don't have either?

    Plus intersex people aren’t transgender.
    We're not talking about transgender now. We're talking about your claim that there are only 2 genders.

  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @Greyparrot @ILikePie5
    Gender Dysphoria is very closely related to schizophrenia.

    I never said trans people aren’t people. I just think they need help 🤷‍♂️
    Yup I guess we should lock them up into mental asylums ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @Greyparrot
    Gender Dysphoria is very closely related to schizophrenia.
    Got any scientific papers to back you up there bud?

  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    So calling others what they want to be called and acknowledging their self-identity affects you personally? Ok bimbo.
    Sure it does. If I get in trouble for my belief that sex is gender, then it does affect me and personally.

    What if they don't have either?
    Genetic mutations have nothing to do with gender dysphoria and transgenderism.

    We're not talking about transgender now. We're talking about your claim that there are only 2 genders.
    Then we digress from the topic. Transgender inherently means there are only two genders just like bisexual does.  I choose to believe that sex and gender are the same thing. I’m talking about trans people who are biologically male or female.
  • ILikePie5
    ILikePie5 avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,184
    3
    3
    8
    ILikePie5 avatar
    ILikePie5
    --> @PressF4Respect
    I’m not gonna argue this with you. We fundamentally differ in our beliefs.
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    Sure it does. If I get in trouble for my belief that sex is gender, then it does affect me and personally.
    If someone was born with the name Kelly, but then changed their name to Jordan, would you still insist on calling them Kelly?

    Genetic mutations have nothing to do with gender dysphoria and transgenderism.
    You said there are two genders, male and female. So how would you classify the people who don't have either XX or XY?

    Then we digress from the topic. I’m talking about trans people who are biologically male or female. Transgender inherently means there are only two genders just like bisexual does.
    In which definition of "transgender" does it say this?

    I choose to believe that sex and gender are the same thing.
    And some people choose to believe that vaccines cause autism. Your point is?

  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @ILikePie5
    I’m not gonna argue this with you. We fundamentally differ in our beliefs.
    Yup, I guess there's no middle ground whatsoever. Oh well...

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,963
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @PressF4Respect
    They are both identity disorders.

    Dysphoria isn't a healthy condition.
  • PressF4Respect
    PressF4Respect avatar
    Debates: 9
    Forum posts: 3,131
    3
    8
    11
    PressF4Respect avatar
    PressF4Respect
    --> @Greyparrot
    And how do you suppose we "cure" them of their "disorder"?