Objective morality, free will, existence of God, purpose in the universe

Author: Fallaneze ,

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  • Fallaneze
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    Objective morality is the view that statements like "punishing an innocent person is morally wrong" are FACTS rather than opinions. Through rational intuition we know this to be a fact. So unless shown otherwise, objective morality is the status quo.

    Free will means that you could've chosen otherwise. We believe that we can take alternative courses of action, so unless shown otherwise, free will is the status quo.

    God, in the most basic sense, is a fundamental consciousness. Many philosophical arguments favor the existence of God. These include:

    Kalam Cosmological argument
    Argument from fine-tuning 
    Prime mover
    Natural telos (ends/purpose in the universe)
    Moral realism
    Etc.

    Scientific evidence, from quantum mechanics, has also emerged showing that reality is indeterminate unless consciousness is observing/participating in it.

    Purpose in the universe, or natural telos, is evident. Ask yourself if your heart has a purpose. Of course it does. The purpose of the heart is to pump oxygenated blood throughout the body. The only way a body structure like that could have purpose is if it has an intelligent designer (goals, like pumping oxygenated blood throughout the body, require intent -- to reach the goal, and knowledge -- of the goal itself).






  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Fallaneze
    Intelligent designer....reasonable hypothesis. 

    But who or what designed the intelligent designer?.....Reasonably unreasonable downside to the hypothesis.

    All hypotheses start at 1 and conveniently avoid the issue of 0.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    All hypotheses start at 1 and conveniently avoid the issue of 0.
    Not "all." The hypothesis of eternity does not start at 1, because eternity is not a ray, it is an infinite line in both directions, including +1, -1, and, +n, -n, conveniently, 0, and, perhaps, -0
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @fauxlaw @zedvictor4

     because eternity is not a ray, it is an infinite line in both directions,

    Without arguing over definitions I would not debate the obvious concept that God is eternal, however I would argue the majority assumption that eternity suggests an infinite past. Don't get me wrong, I know it is assumed to mean that but as usual I challenge mainstream thought in ways that bring more clarity within concepts.
    My thought or argument rests on the proposition that God actually exists in a fixed state of existence, a static Reality not an infinite amount of passing time. Without me knowing it at the moment I realized this, it actually addresses the infinite regression paradox in that there never was any infinite past rather eternity doesn't "move" in either direction for it is not linear, if anything cyclical but more accurately it is a fixed Reality.

    Time then, would basically be an illusion and only relevant to the created universe which is nothing more than a moving picture play on top of a static unified constant state of Being. And that state of Being is not time, rather it is non located awareness or consciousness that permeates boundlessly like still water, then only the movement of the waves (created objects) on the surface of that water (awareness/energy) present the illusion of time as movement. 
    Since our perception of existence rests solely on the misconception or illusion of time we naively assume then that eternity is an infinite amount of time, a never-ending stretch of linear past and future.
    Time is associated with matter, matter is associated with form and forms are associated with birth and death (beginning and ending)....in others words forms within creation exist linear due to the fact they have a starting point and then dissipate, so time then is only relative to the expiration of matter and form. But awareness (or God) exists independent of matter and form, and so also exists independent of time as we experience it within the universe.

    If time as we observe it is only relevant in creation then time as we know it ceases to exist transcendent (outside) of creation. If time ceases to exist then there can't be an infinite past, existence then would inherently be more like a foundation not a linear experience.
    Forms are objects that are brought into existence through the manipulation and isolation of energy, so forms are created things which exist simultaneous with decay (time) and God (awareness) precedes created objects, and exists independent of form and also time (decay). In other words God exists, then forms exist.....God exists and then creation appears. 

    Interestingly though the implication stays the same, God was never created and eternity has no need of an origin (it's fixed). Therefore it is erroneously implied that God is in need of a designer as Zed puts it. Either way he seems ignorant of what "eternal" insinuates.  

  • zedvictor4
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    --> @EtrnlVw @fauxlaw
    Well I would suggest that eternity can be eternally 0....No cause necessary....Though stuff that we are pretty certain of (matter) eternal and without cause is somewhat imponderable....That really does seem like blind faith, which is a poor basis for understanding.

    Though if we concede to the notion of eternally 1 and also  take on board the eternity of an evolutionary process, then eternity negates the need for any cause, including GODS.

    Eternity itself becomes the cause and a recurring material evolutionary process is the GOD principle.....Certainly no deity requiring worship required.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    There's a fly in your soup: God has a Father, and so does that Father, etc, into the eternal past and into the eternal future, because we, mortal humans, are destined for eternal progression in which we, too, taking appropriate steps along the way, ultimatery are gods, ourselves, begetting children who will become gods, etc. It's a much easier concept to swallow than time, forms and beginnings and endings.
    However, I do not view the form as linear, I imagine eternal lines in all coordinates of no form whatsoever.