BLM must be stopped

Author: Dr.Franklin ,

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  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin

    they are legitimately trained marxists, they just admitted it!
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    they are legitimately trained marxists, they just admitted it!
    lol one person said something you don't like, so millions of people should be ignored. That sounds like a republican talking point. 

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    You say Marxist like it is a bad thing...
  • WaterPhoenix
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    ofc they should stopped, it shouldn't have existed in the first place.
  • oromagi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    we already did this one. 


    also not "they," she- Patrisse Cullors
    also not "just" - 5 years ago.  I'm sure the NY Post will keep "re-discover"ing  this claim some more in the future.
    also not "admitted" but declared.  An admission is a response, an acknowledgement. Saying "admitted" implies guilt where no guilt is warranted.  Cullors volunteered this uncontroversial biographical claim.  Anybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist.    A black lesbian saying she's taken an economics class should not be so terrifying to you, I wonder why it does?

    What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?

    What is your plan for stopping BLM? Must implies an imperative.   Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?



  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    that was a co founder OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT

    also does that logic apply to cops?
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Greyparrot
    well it is
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @oromagi
      Anybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist. 
    explain how that works exactly?

  • oromagi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    @oromagi
      Anybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist. 
    explain how that works exactly?

    I'll answer your question after you have answered mine.

    • What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
    • What is your plan for stopping BLM?
    • Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?



  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @oromagi
    What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
    Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change

    • What is your plan for stopping BLM?
    i dont know, I said it MUST be stopped, how about we start by exposing these things and then stop listening to them

    Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
    No
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    that was a co founder OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT
    your point is? It is a massive movement with millions and millions of supporters. You think that the opinions of one person automatically invalidates the views of millions of people?

    also does that logic apply to cops?
    groups should be questioned based on what they do as a group. One member of BLM said in an interview once she was a marxist. There is zero evidence that the movement is marxist. 

    Cops harass and attack people of color all the time. It is not a rare or isolated thing. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    the founder of a movement where millions donated to and millions support just admitted they were trained marxists

    that is plently of evidence the movement is marxist, she admitted they were trained marxists

    answer the quesiton: does that logic apply to cops

    . You think that the doings of one person automatically invalidates the jobs of millions of people?

  • oromagi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    MARXISM is "a method of socioeconomic analysis that uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as historical materialism, to understand class relations and social conflict as well as a dialectical perspective to view social transformation. It originates from the works of 19th-century German philosophers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. As Marxism has developed over time into various branches and schools of thought, there is currently no single definitive Marxist theory"

    So, for example, I am a trained Marxist.   I studied the use of the Marxist dialectic in artistic critical theory.  I am able to discuss The SImpsons as a Marxist critique of both the greedy bourgeoisie as represented by Mr. Burns as well as  the consumption-numbed proletariat as represented by Homer Simpson.  I've written essays decrying Newt Gingrich's patronizing perspective of the proletariat demonstrated by his praise of Forrest Gump as representative of what a good American should be (dumb, lucky, submissive, and uncurious).

    Marxism is a method, a tool.  It is not a political ideology.  It is not a religious ideology.  It doesn't mean anti-Capitalist, or anti-American, or anti-Christian.  It doesn't mean Socialist, or Communist, or Marxist-Leninist (which is what FOX News mostly thinks Marxism means).  Many, many people think Marxism is an ideology but that does not change the meaning of the word or the economic skill set it describes.

    If you are not a trained Marxist, then your education is missing some pretty fundamental economic and critical theory.


  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    If they are legitimately trained, then presumably they are legitimate?

    So what's the problem?

    Perhaps you have a conditioned fear of others that are somewhat dissimilar to you.
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change
    Uhh demanding change doesn't require any training whatsoever so... what you are describing just sounds like a Marxist... are you sure someone isn't using the phrase "trained Marxist" to make something sound scarier than it actually is?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    he founder of a movement where millions donated to and millions support just admitted they were trained marxists

    that is plently of evidence the movement is marxist, she admitted they were trained marxists
    again, one person out of millions said this. So clearly all of them must be this.... I'm quite certain there are some neo-nazi or KKK republicans. So by your logic, all republicans are neo-nazis and KKK. 

    answer the quesiton: does that logic apply to cops
    You found 1 person out of millions who said they were a marxist. So judging all of them by that is stupid. There are thousands upon thousands of racist/abusive cops. I mean we saw hundreds of videos of police abusing protesters recently. So judging them on a wider scale is certainly warranted because of larger scale of the issue.

    Also, police are hired and trained by the government. They need to be held to the highest standards. If some random person in a crowd does something stupid, that is a bad thing. But they do not represent the government. they do not have the power and authority of the government. If police do stupid shit, they do represent the government. They do have that power and authority. They therefore need to be held to a much higher standard of behavior. Which they are not upholding. 

  • WaterPhoenix
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    your point is? It is a massive movement with millions and millions of supporters. You think that the opinions of one person automatically invalidates the views of millions of people?
    there were also millions of nazis, commies, and socialists who though they were doing the right thing. having more people doesn't automatically validate your side.

  • WaterPhoenix
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    oh wait you were talking about the person who admitted she was a marxist, yeah no she was just slightly more idiotic than all the other people in the movement.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @WaterPhoenix
    there were also millions of nazis, commies, and socialists who though they were doing the right thing. having more people doesn't automatically validate your side.
    no one is claiming it does. But having one person say they have a specific ideology, does not in any way diminish the beliefs of millions of people. Especially considering virtually none of them have said they have that same ideology. BLM is about the rights of black people.  

    oh wait you were talking about the person who admitted she was a marxist, yeah no she was just slightly more idiotic than all the other people in the movement.
    this kind of thinking is deeply problematic. Instinctually saying that everyone in a group is an idiot because you disagree with parts of what they say or believe is a terrible idea. This same kind of thinking helped get trump elected (ie powerful people rejected that he could win cause he's a racist dick and ignored the economic populism that was actually quite popular). 

    writing off millions and millions of people is stupid. The much better idea, is to try to show people why your plan will accomplish more than than the plan you think is stupid. So if you think BLM is dumb, then show why your ideology/plan can do more to help black people. 
  • WaterPhoenix
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    you disagree with parts of what they say or believe is a terrible idea.
    oh no, i disagree with all of it.
    So if you think BLM is dumb, then show why your ideology/plan can do more to help black people. 
    make everyone have an equal starting ground, if they're retarded don't give them anything to help them. college admissions are based on intelligence and intelligence alone, equity can go suck a dick. no reparations for anyone of any race or culture, reparations are the stupidest thing ever and the very word is a waste of space in the english language. don't defund the police, in fact, give them more funding. if someone breaks one of the rules then suspend them, if they don't then no one cares. arrest anyone who rioted or was involved with the riots and make them pay for all of the private property they destroyed. and that's basically it. this blm thing has gotten to a point where all lives matter is considered racist, we need to stop it. honestly, this looks like it's heading more towards anarchy than communism, either way, if any of those things happen, you can bet that i'm fleeing america.
    writing off millions and millions of people is stupid.
    this is not how logic works.

  • oromagi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    -> @oromagi
    What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
    Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change
    • That's like defining a trained parrot as a parrot who is trained to parrot.   You aren't adding any context to the word Marxist which suggests that you don't have a ready understanding of the concept. 
    • What is your plan for stopping BLM?
    i dont know
    • So you lack any plan for action, which tells us that us that you haven't considered or else are heedless of the consequences of your call to action.
    I said it MUST be stopped, how about we start by exposing these things
    • Exposing what?  As I've pointed out a couple of times before, Cullors freely offered this biographical insight five years ago, at the advent of BLM.  This narrative of "exposing" and "admission" is a falsehood you are contributing- fake news.
    and then stop listening to them
    Well, we are all already free to stop listening to BLM right now.  Look, I think people should stop watching The Bachelor but if I posted a forum titled  "The Bachelor Must be Stopped" readers would rationally understand that to mean something rather more than "stop watching the Bachelor," right?

    BLM's mission is fairly straightforward:

    • to eradicate white supremacy and
    • build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.
    Personally, I'm fine with this mission.  white supremacist are  responsible for the majority of domestic terrorism since 9/11 and the mission of white supremacist is diametrically opposed to the mission of America as defined in the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, BIll of Right, Gettysburg Address, etc, etc, etc. 
    BLM has made a compelling case that the state and vigilantes regularly violate the civil rights of US Citizens based on skin color in clear contravention of 4th and 14th Amendment protections, at least.

    Do I find much of the rhetoric and posturing of BLM overblown, irrational, and contrary to the stated mission?  Yes, but that is true of every grass roots movement I've ever participated in or paid attention to.   In the land of free speech, every word of wisdom comes encapsulated by nine idiocies.

    Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
    I'm glad to hear it.  Short of  mass  state & vigilante violence, I think your call to stop BLM is doomed to fail. 

    I find your argument 100% unconvincing.


  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @WaterPhoenix
    oh no, i disagree with all of it.
    you disagree that black people should be treated as equals? I mean that is the core of their argument, so if you disagree with everything they believe, then you are a massive racist. 

    make everyone have an equal starting ground, if they're retarded don't give them anything to help them. college admissions are based on intelligence and intelligence alone, equity can go suck a dick.
    oh god no. you can be very smart, but if you have no money to pay for university, then you are screwed. And the people who get the top jobs, usually come from only a handful of the most exclusive and expensive schools. So if you don't have the right connections and the right socio-economic background, you can forget about alot of upward mobility. 

    don't defund the police, in fact, give them more funding.
    this is the problem though. politicians have been doing this for decades. They cut funding for other services and shovel that money onto police so they can have tanks and assault weapons. Now if there is any kind of problem, your only option is to call the police when in many cases they are not the right service for the job. So instead of helping homeless people get back on their feet, we send cops to harass them or arrest them. 

    this blm thing has gotten to a point where all lives matter is considered racist, we need to stop it. 
    all lives matter is the refrain of racists. If your house is on fire and you try to get people to come and help and they respond "well my house needs painting, all houses matter", that person is a dick. Your house is the one that is on fire. You obviously have an issue that requires attention. So every time you say "all lives matter" in response to someone saying black lives matter, you are the asshole refusing to help someone whose house is on fire because your house needs paint. 

    writing off millions and millions of people is stupid.
    this is not how logic works.
    you didn't make any sense. millions and millions of people in america believe that racism is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. You, and people like you, write all of them off as idiots and ignore them. That is stupid. they have a legitimate concern. You can disagree with how to address that concern, but ignoring them and the issue means you are proving to them that your ideology doesn't give a shit about them or the issues that concern them, guaranteeing they will never support your ideology/party. 


  • WaterPhoenix
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    you disagree that black people should be treated as equals? I mean that is the core of their argument, so if you disagree with everything they believe, then you are a massive racist. 
    sure buddy
    oh god no. you can be very smart, but if you have no money to pay for university, then you are screwed. And the people who get the top jobs, usually come from only a handful of the most exclusive and expensive schools. So if you don't have the right connections and the right socio-economic background, you can forget about alot of upward mobility. 
    did you even read what i said, i said to not give any special priveliges for anyone, be it reparations or the compulsive need for equity democrats seem to have. i'm not against letting more people get into universities, i believe what determines a persons worth is how much they can contribute to society.
    this is the problem though. politicians have been doing this for decades. They cut funding for other services and shovel that money onto police so they can have tanks and assault weapons. Now if there is any kind of problem, your only option is to call the police when in many cases they are not the right service for the job. So instead of helping homeless people get back on their feet, we send cops to harass them or arrest them. 
    this is such blatant media propaganda, do you really think anytime police are told to get rid of a homeless person begging in a place where they're not supposed to, the police harass them? of course they would arrest them, if someone's breaking the law, arrest them. also, police don't have tanks, at least, my county police department sure as hell doesn't. lastly, can i see some of the super important services politicians have cut in favor of funding the police?
    all lives matter is the refrain of racists. If your house is on fire and you try to get people to come and help and they respond "well my house needs painting, all houses matter", that person is a dick. Your house is the one that is on fire. You obviously have an issue that requires attention. So every time you say "all lives matter" in response to someone saying black lives matter, you are the asshole refusing to help someone whose house is on fire because your house needs paint. 
    this is the most idiotic analogy i have ever heard. all lives matter means all races get equal treatment, keep in mind not equal outcome, equal starting ground. and also keep in mind this equal starting ground doesn't mean one side has an advantage equal, by equal i mean equal equal.
    you didn't make any sense. millions and millions of people in america believe that racism is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. You, and people like you, write all of them off as idiots and ignore them. That is stupid. they have a legitimate concern. You can disagree with how to address that concern, but ignoring them and the issue means you are proving to them that your ideology doesn't give a shit about them or the issues that concern them, guaranteeing they will never support your ideology/party. 
    i don't need people to support my ideology. i can believe what i want, why would i ever need them to support my ideology. "then don't bother them" you say. i didn't bother them, not before they started rioting and destroying property at least. i can deal with the media shoving "we support all races" up my ass all day. but when people are rioting WITHOUT MASKS and destroying private property, i get extremely, extremely, ticked. these guys are causing the death and destruction of innocent people's wellbeing and property, as well as costing millions maybe billions worth of damages. i'm not ignoring them, in fact, i am very concerned about them.

  • SupaDudz
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Stereotyping Republicans because one person said something, sounds like something a typical Liberal would do.

    Is what I would say if I was stereotyping people. But it's only you.
  • SupaDudz
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    Let's also make something clear. The statement itself to me, I have no issue with. I believe ALM supporters are deluded. BLM is ALM, but they believe in fighting to improve the quality of Black Lives. I have no problem getting behind the saying and the goal for BLM. There not black supremacists. I do have an issue with the organization overall