Can You Name a President Who's Done More For the Black Community Than Trump Since Abraham Lincoln?

Author: Our_Boat_is_Right ,

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  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    People always brush it off when Trump says it as "absurd" among other things, but can you name a president who has done more?  Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president.  The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.
  • zedvictor4
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    There's doing things and then there's doing things.

    And it's no good judging the past by todays standards.

    Obviously in terms of inspiration, Obama will have done more than Trump....Though that's forgotten, and move on.

    And what Trump might have achieved so far, is forgotten and move on.

    Whether or not the "Black Community" ( Interesting segregationist reference) or the wider community are still suitably impressed by Trump, remains to be seen.
  • SirAnonymous
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    Ulysses Grant. He did a pretty good job of shutting down the KKK for a while.
  • Danielle
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    --> @Our_Boat_is_Right
    People always brush it off when Trump says it as "absurd" among other things, but can you name a president who has done more?  Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president.  The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.

    Someone could just as easily bring up Trump's racist remarks and incidents (like the Central Park 5) pre presidency, or suggest he "only" did certain things to garner political favor from the black community, so I don't think focusing on a president's personal morality is useful for this convo. You asked which president did the most for blacks aside from Abraham Lincoln. In that case I might suggest President JFK since the Civil Rights Act  went forward because of him. He gave the Report to the American People about civil rights in a TV speech and got the CRA up and running. And LJB even said the country should pass the Civil Rights Act to honor the memory and legacy of JFK. 
  • ILikePie5
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    A President William Jennings Bryan would’ve been interesting
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @Danielle @SirAnonymous @zedvictor4
    Interesting answers, obviously this is all subjective and up to interpretation in terms of you would measure success. 

    You make an interesting point about forgetting zed, I believe your point is that we have to wait and see what blacks think of it.  Although I don't think whether they believe it or not measures how actually successful it was.  You mention people were inspired by Obama, I see how you can think of that as something being done, but I'm gearing this more policy wise.

    Danielle, you make a good point about JFK and how his speech could have changed the course of history.

    SirAnonymous, your right about that policy, but bearing down on the KKK seemed more of an anti-violence thing and this is what white people are doing thing, than a policy specifically focused on the black community.  I agree it helped, but I just wouldn't put him at the top of the list. 
  • skittlez09
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    aye nice to see u back bro 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Our_Boat_is_Right
    Nixon
  • SirAnonymous
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    but bearing down on the KKK seemed more of an anti-violence thing and this is what white people are doing thing
    Yes and no. The KKK was preventing blacks from voting through intimidation, not to mention the lynches. While it was anti-violence, it was also very much pro-black and was specifically intended to be pro-black.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Obviously in terms of inspiration, Obama will have done more than Trump.

    You're just explaining why Obama would have been a better preacher or a life coach than a president. Presidents are remembered by how the country changed, and it wasn't that great under his 8 years. Especially the economy. BLM was created under Obama's administration which also helped to give rise to the terror group Antifa. Obama supported the radical anti-police groups by publicly shaming the police multiple times. Obama did nothing to create economic opportunity zones in Black Communities. Obama ignored the Blacks competing for the low wage jobs monopolized by illegal immigrants in inner sanctuary cities. Obama offered no actual solutions for Black unemployment, Black fatherlessness, and Black violence. 

    That's how Obama is remembered. He sowed the seeds for a race war that would have happened no matter who was elected in 2016.

    Could Trump do better? Absolutely, but Obama set that bar pretty low.
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Can you explain what Nixon did for blacks, and how it was better than what Trump has done?
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    But you think that warrants the title of best president for blacks since Lincoln?
  • oromagi
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    --> @Our_Boat_is_Right
    People always brush it off when Trump says it,
    Trump is the most prolific liar  in human history.  The Washington Post has tracked 22,247 lies told in his official capacity as President (that is, lies told while representing us Americans) by Aug 27th. (At more than 50 lies per day, the fact checkers are weeks behind on verification).  That's not hyperbole, that is history.  Even before Trump is remembered as President or television personality, history will not him as the greatest liar of all time.

    When Trump cites any statistic "brushing it off" is the only appropriate response.   The odds that there is any truth to a Trump fact are less than any other source possible.  You are more likely to get an accurate representation from a  kindergartener. 

    Fact checks of this specific claim (even before 2020) universally attribute no truth to the claim.  For example, the Washington Post gives the claim 4 Pinocchio's- no truth whatsoever.

    Trump hinges his claim on 7 mostly false claims:

    • Black poverty was at an all time low in 2019, dropping 3 points after the Obama admin's 7 point drop.  However, 2020 has erased all of Trump's gains and black poverty is back up to post-2008 crash numbers.
    • Black unemployment last month was 16.7, highest official rate since Jan 1984.
    • Criminal Justice reform was highly truncated version of  a more expansive bill written by the Obama admin and rejected by McConnell & Co.  Trump made no contribution beyond his signature to the popular bipartisan bill.
    • Violent crime has decreased for all races fairly steadily since 1991 with some leveling out since 2014.  Early reports are that COVID has resulted in significant decreases in crime generally, with some remarkable spikes in commercial break-ins, assault, etc during the Floyd riots of this summer.
    • School choice accelerates educational white flight and mostly promotes home schooling which is not an option for families without one stay at home parent. 83% of home schooled kids are white, less than 5% are black.
    • Opportunity Zones legislation has mostly just created massive tax breaks for the wealthiest real estate interests.  Few blacks benefit from accelerated gentrification.
    • HBCU funding is in the Congressional budget.  HBCU funding during Trump's term is substantially less than either of Obama's terms.
    In short, Trump's claims for Black improvement are mostly taking credit for other people's work and ignoring the devastation caused by his pandemic response.  Against this weak record  we need to consider

    • 60% drop in civil rights investigations
      • Virtually no investigations of any govt civil rights violations
    • Massive new impediments and restrictions targeting black voters
    • Substantial reductions in black nominations and appointments by Trump admin
    • Trump's passive endorsement of white supremacy and personal history of racism
    • Increased health risks to blacks caused by Trump's failed pandemic response
    but can you name a president who has done more? 
    Of course, it is difficult to judge presidential racial policies of president's appointed to represent some of the most racist generations of people in history.  Republican dominance in the later 19th century was substantially hindered in every attempt towards racial improvement  by the racist Democrat voting block in the South and the overambitious radical Republicans in the North. The best measure I can think to apply is whether any President was ahead, with, or behind his time in terms of civil rights and protections for black people.   By this standard, I'd place Trump on the lowest rung of presidents dealing with racial issues, alongside the self-defeating Andrew Johnson, the segregationist Woodrow Wilson, and the Southern strategist Ronald Reagan as presidents lagging farthest behind the slow expansion of the American franchise.

    Most people only say LBJ because he passed the civil rights act; however, he was a proud racist who frequently used the N-word and voted against any civil rights legislation in the senate before he was president.  The only reason he signed it into law was because he was pressured by everyone to do so, and it would have been very bad politically if he hadn't.
    Personally, I admire Presidents who overcome individual prejudice when they accept the responsibility of representing all Americans.  Obama, for example, was clearly personally uncomfortable with the notion of gay marriage but embraced the change in the face of a more accepting majority he led.   Let's remember that the whole Democratic party recognized that they were sacrificing the Southern vote for a generation to support that civl rights bill 100 years after it had first been tabled in Congress but accepted that political price for a righteous cause.
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @oromagi
    I'm sorry, but that post just reads as an "I hate Trump" op-ed.  You can have your personal opinions of whether Trump's policies have helped the black community and be entitled to trust a leftist fact-checking website, I'm just asking for a fair assessment of what different president's have done for blacks.  I don't think you answered the question, you kinda mentioned Obama, this was just a rant against Trump and conflating different political issues and opinions into a simple question.
  • oromagi
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    I'm sorry, but that post just reads as an "I hate Trump" op-ed.  You can have your personal opinions of whether Trump's policies have helped the black community and be entitled to trust a leftist fact-checking website, I'm just asking for a fair assessment of what different president's have done for blacks.  I don't think you answered the question, you kinda mentioned Obama, this was just a rant against Trump and conflating different political issues and opinions into a simple question.
    Disagree.  The only totally personal opinion I gave you was my admiration for presidents who overcome personal prejudice, which I preceded with a "personally."

    The rankings of presidents is necessarily subjective but I think my assessment of Trump as significantly behind the times racially speaking, alongside Johnson, Wilson & Reagan is highly defensible and corroborated by substantial presidential history.

    The rest of it - Trump's lies, claims, and failings relies on objective data taken from Trump's own tweets, FBI UCR, Wikipedia, WashPo mostly.

  • SirAnonymous
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    But you think that warrants the title of best president for blacks since Lincoln?
    It definitely puts Grant up there. LBJ, despite his personal flaws, is also a contender because of the Civil Rights Act. I think his Great Society programs have been a disaster for poor people, which, sadly, includes a lot of blacks. I think the Civil Rights Acts outweighs that rather significantly, though. I would put either of them ahead of Trump. Trump has been pretty decent on the economy which has helped everyone, blacks included. Well, he was pretty decent until covid came along and ruined everything. I think the claims that Trump had the best economy ever are greatly inflated and are mostly attributable to partisanship and Trump sycophancy. As for how good Trump has been for race relations, I think his contributions, whether positive or negative, have been largely overshadowed by the contribution of the monster who kneeled on George Floyd's neck. That being said, I don't think Trump has exactly been a smashing success for race relations. Racist or not, he definitely isn't helping things on that front.

    And, quite frankly, I find comparing Trump to Lincoln to be grossly insulting to Lincoln.
  • oromagi
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    This article didn't much figure into my opinion above but I thought the order was fascinating.  Particularly,
    • Obama's 5th place
    • Teddy's 2nd place- I always thought of Teddy as a big disappointment in civil rights....
    • Eisenhower before Johnson.  wow.
    • KKK thrived under Coolidge, how did Coolidge get so high?
    Its a very interesting way to measure.  I wonder how Trump would rank here?

    My prediction is last.
  • Greyparrot
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    The sheer number of black Obama voters that now vote for Trump is enough evidence for me.

    Oro can whitesplain all he wants to about what it means to be black, just like Biden did.

    The proof is in the ballot box.
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @oromagi
    lol, pretty amazing you can't even see your own bias.  "objective data" in which it wasn't even objective in the first place, and furthermore you interpret it to fit your narrative.  Don't lie to yourself and say the washington post is "objective."  Give me a break.
  • oromagi
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    --> @Our_Boat_is_Right
    Name three sources that you consider more reliable than the Washington Post
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @oromagi
    There are almost no mainstream moderate news sources, but every media bias checker has the Washington post at least left-center(I prefer mediabiasfactcheck.com, because all the the other supposed bias checkers are biased in themselves, lol).  If we're going for fair reporting but still a slight bias to the left, I'd say The Hill.  If we're going for the same thing but to the right, I'd say the New York Post(keep in mind i'm talking only about news, not any editorials for all of these).  If we're trying to go for closest to the center on either side, I'd say the Wall Street Journal(and I'd definitely consider The Hill).  Media sources who are pretty much completely neutral and pretty much just says what happens and let's the people decide how to interpret it are Real Clear Politics and C-Span.

    Edit:  I'd actually say the Hill is neutral as well, just as much as the Wall Street Journal.

    So The Hill, The Wall Street Journal, Real Clear Politics, and C-Span.  There's 4 for you.
  • oromagi
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    @oromagi
    There are almost no mainstream moderate news sources, but every media bias checker has the Washington post at least left-center(I prefer mediabiasfactcheck.com, because all the the other supposed bias checkers are biased in themselves, lol).  If we're going for fair reporting but still a slight bias to the left, I'd say The Hill.  If we're going for the same thing but to the right, I'd say the New York Post(keep in mind i'm talking only about news, not any editorials for all of these).  If we're trying to go for closest to the center on either side, I'd say the Wall Street Journal(and I'd definitely consider The Hill).  Media sources who are pretty much completely neutral and pretty much just says what happens and let's the people decide how to interpret it are Real Clear Politics and C-Span.

    Edit:  I'd actually say the Hill is neutral as well, just as much as the Wall Street Journal.

    So The Hill, The Wall Street Journal, Real Clear Politics, and C-Span.  There's 4 for you.
    C-SPAN is mostly a camera pointed at Congress.  While cameras seldom lie, the politicians standing in front do so all the time.  If you are looking for an exact quote from a hearing or debate, C-SPAN is quite useful but there's no real journalism to evaluate.

    According to your preferred fact-checker,  all four of the remaining sources are ranked lower than the Washington post for reliable reporting.

    WashPo is rated HIGH
    The Hill, WSJ, and RCP are all rated as less reliable MOSTLY FACTUAL
    The NY POST is another rung down at MIXED.  (That's before reporters refused to put their name on a story last week because they could not verify most of what it said, so publishers just slapped some FOX flunky's name on and ran it).

    I'm less concerned about bias than reliability.  If a fire broke out in a crowded theatre and one friend who always gets his facts right but does not share your politics told you the exit was at the front while a second friend who shares your politics but sometimes get  his facts wrong insisted the exit was to the back, which way would you head?

    ( In this analogy, the NY Post is the friend with the 5-gallon can of gas.)

    Using your standard, we should be agreeing that WashPo is a more reliable reporter of objective data regarding the Trump admin than any of the sources you name (excepting C-SPAN which does no reporting).
  • Our_Boat_is_Right
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    --> @oromagi
    You know just as well as I do that The Washington Post's "fact checker" is bias.  They interpret quotes in a way that fits their narrative, it's not straight reporting.  Have they done these constant "fact checks" with democrats?  You know they would be much more lenient with Biden's quotes than they would with Trump's.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they are "reliable" and report factually, but the way in which they interpret those facts, twist it with their own political opinions, and present it to the public is clearly anti-Trump.
  • RationalMadman
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    Yeah, Obama and every single Democrat since Lincoln freed the slaves and left things terribly segregated.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Greyparrot
    The question specifically asked who had done what for the "Black Community".  Not, who had done what for the U.S.A.

    You've hijacked the issue somewhat. Seemingly for purposes other than what was intended.