God is not supernatural

Author: Tradesecret ,

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  • Tradesecret
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    God is God. He is not supernatural and does nothing that is supernatural.  He is divine. This means that he does divine things. 

    To suggest that God is supernatural is to reveal something insightful about yourself - that your picture of God is not actually god, but human or something akin to it. It also reveals that your understanding of god is clearly flawed. 


  • Mopac
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    --> @Tradesecret
    I agree that God is divine and does divine things, but what do you mean by supernatural?



  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Prove it.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Tradesecret
    God is God. He is not supernatural and does nothing that is supernatural. 

    supernatural
    /ˌsuːpəˈnatʃ(ə)r(ə)l/
    Learn to pronounce

    adjective

    1. (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
      "a supernatural being"

     Are you suggesting then that the so called "miracles" performed by Jesus were not supernatural?  Well good for you if you are Reverend Tradesecrete, because I believe exactly the same. 




  • n8nrgmi
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    the vast majority of people would say miracles are supernatural. at this point tradesecret is just playing word games. 
  • Stephen
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    --> @n8nrgmi
     at this point tradesecret is just playing word games. 


     That will be Reverend Tradesecrete, n8nrgmi.

    And although s/he is absolutely clueless when it comes to the actual words in the actual scriptures themselves and what they actually state, s/he has a penchant for reinterpreting and redefining biblical words and everyday words in general to suit her/his narrative.
     A most recent example would be on another of your own threads I believe where the Reverend Tradesecrete tells us that to "Curse ones parents"Leviticus 20:9"
    actually means "to threaten to kill ones parents" #26



  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Stephen @Tradesecret



    Stephen, 

    But WAIT!  Tradesecret, aka, He/She, stipulated the term of "cursing" in the passage in question, as just that, cursing in its true meaning and NOT as He/She has now changed the term to murdering the parents in the link below 12 paragraphs down:


    Seriously, can you believe the people that can actually follow He/She's sermons, where their lack of Bible intellect has to be equal to He/She's lack of intellect regarding the scriptures to be able to "think" they are actually getting the TRUE word of the serial killer Jesus the Christ from He/She, Tradesecret!  


    He/She, aka, Tradesecret, certainly takes the position to Satanically REWRITING the Bible ad infinitum, but at He/She's expense upon Judgement Day, praise Jesus' revenge!




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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Tradesecret



    .
    TRADESECRET, a Bible 2nd class woman now, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery,

    YOUR DUMBFOUNDED BIBLE QUOTE ONCE AGAIN: "To suggest that God is supernatural is to reveal something insightful about yourself "

    When will your Devil Speak ever end? Therefore, to save you even more embarrassment, I will only bring forth one entity that you are now saying is WRONG relative to Christianity. That entity is the Trinity Doctrine!

    To the membership, as I have shown ad infinitum, Tradesecret, aka, "He/She" is a continued outright Biblical FOOL, where He/She now blatantly states that Matthew was wrong when he proffered the following within the scriptures, to wit: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 28:19)

    The Holy Spirit part of Jesus' modus operandi in the Triune Doctrine, is in fact, super natural, therefore once again when Tradesecret states that Jesus, as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, is NOT in any way supernatural, is just another slap towards Him and the JUDEO-Christian Bible New Testament!  

    Tradesecret acts as though He/She is a Hell bound Presbyterian, where even He/She is not that dumfounded to follow this Satanic faith! AGAIN, Tradesecrets biblical ignorance is without bounds, as Jesus watchers He/She blasphemes the Holy Bible!


    NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WILL BE ...?
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Mopac
    I agree that God is divine and does divine things, but what do you mean by supernatural?
    Great Question Mopac. 

    I mean as opposed to natural.  Superman is supernatural.  Aquaman is supernatural.  A human who does things that other humans cannot do. 

    But what is natural? Natural is what humans ordinarily do.  

    Birds fly. This is natural. Humans don't. That too is natural. But if a human did fly that would supernatural. 

    If a bird did not fly, that too is natural.  

    The same applies to God. What is natural for God? And what is supernatural to man.  
  • Stephen
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Stephen, 
    But WAIT!  Tradesecret, aka, He/She, stipulated the term of "cursing" in the passage in question, as just that, cursing in its true meaning and NOT as He/She has now changed the term to murdering the parents in the link below 12 paragraphs down:

    Seriously, can you believe the people that can actually follow He/She's sermons, where their lack of Bible intellect has to be equal to He/She's lack of intellect regarding the scriptures to be able to "think" they are actually getting the TRUE word of the serial killer Jesus the Christ from He/She, Tradesecret!  
    He/She, aka, Tradesecret, certainly takes the position to Satanically REWRITING the Bible ad infinitum, but at He/She's expense upon Judgement Day, praise Jesus' revenge!


    What can one say Brother?   As shown in the case of the vile verse spoken by your Jesus /god (that loves us and forgives us our sins)  in Leviticus 20:9  the Reverend Tradesecrete  attempts to turn the "crime" of simply cursing ones parents into a crime that deserved of a capitol sentence by telling us that "curse" in this sense  means to   "to threaten to kill ones parents" #26 .  This is most certainly a classical rewrite of the scriptures by one attempting to justify the violence and intolerance of your god. It is a classic case of forcing the "crime" to fit such an unjust punishment. I do feel for her/his  theological "students".  

     I am still eagerly awaiting a reply to my question here .   #4




  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Stephen
    HI Stephen,

    thanks for the question. 

     Are you suggesting then that the so called "miracles" performed by Jesus were not supernatural?  Well good for you if you are Reverend Tradesecrete, because I believe exactly the
    same. 
    Glad you agree.  That is why I did not see it as a question from you.  But given that you have since then suggested you would like an answer. Here it is. 

    My opening post was this. God is not supernatural.  God can do whatever is in accord with his own natural order and that would be natural.  Jesus, however when he was on the this planet, appeared as man, as indeed I have said on numerous occasions. He did not come to prove he was God or divine.  Jesus did nothing of his own accord, all he said and all he did was empowered by both the Father and the Holy Spirit.  

    The miracles that occurred - healing the sick, raising the dead, miracles, were all works of the Holy Spirit.  Hence, if done by God the Spirit or the Father, natural for them. As humans we look at Jesus and think supernatural. But he denied that he did them himself.   

    But let us say that he admitted to the miracles, would it be supernatural or natural?  My view would be that humans - cannot be supernatural.  But Jesus was fully man and fully God. Although he never attempted to prove he was divine, does not mean that he could not have done things which were divine. If he did, then it was natural. 

    I see no inconsistency here - nor that Jesus was supernatural or that events or miracles he was observed to have been connected with were supernatural. But on the other hand I do not want to convey the impression that what Jesus was observed to do was so ordinary from a human perspective that people were not amazed.  This would be inaccurate. Clearly, miracles occurred that amazed and perhaps convinced some people.  They were certainly dealing with a special type of person in Jesus.  

    Yet, perceptions from others about what Jesus is doing - is again only perceptions. it does not add or take away from the meaning of God is not supernatural. 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Tradesecret
    My opening post was this. God is not supernatural.  God can do whatever is in accord with his own natural order and that would be natural.  Jesus, however when he was on the this planet, appeared as man, as indeed I have said on numerous occasions. He did not come to prove he was God or divine. 
    I love it how you can make Jesus not be  god when it suites you to do so. But even this doesn't fit the narrative does it. Because if, as only you claim, he was man, then he was a "man" that certainly did some "supernatural things, wasn't he?


    Jesus did nothing of his own accord, all he said and all he did was empowered by both the Father and the Holy Spirit.
      
     These would be "supernatural things performed by a "man"., and also the "father and the spirit", when it seem to suite you.


    [A] The miracles that occurred - healing the sick, raising the dead, miracles, were all works of the Holy Spirit. 

     And you can prove that can you?   


    As humans we look at Jesus and think supernatural.

     That's correct. We do. For a "man" to walk on water would be /is ,supernatural. Please do not repeat   `possessed by  Father and the Holy Spirit until you have proven this to be the case'.

      The rest of you speculations and assumptions can only be addressed once you have proven [A] above.


  • Mopac
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Certainly, there is a divine nature. I would be careful though lest the impression is given that God is contingent on nature, or limited by His nature.


  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Stephen @Tradesecret


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    Stephen,

    As we can readily see, He/She Tradesecret changes their position all the time, and of course, we're not to see this happening as a fact! LOL I too am awaiting a cogent response this time to my post #8 within this thread, and many of my other posts to Him/Her in other threads, but ol' Tradesecret has turned into what the following link represents:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7ni7zL8qU


    Remember when Tradesecret went crying and whimpering to the moderators because I was easily making him the continued Biblical fool, and he begged me to stop because He/She couldn't refute my godly posts anymore and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath?

    HIS/HER TRADESECRET QUOTE ESSENTIALLY ADMITTING THAT MY BIBLICAL INTELLECT IS FAR TO SUPERIOR TO THEIRS: "Having said the above, I am now going to take the prudent step of politely asking you to not to respond to my posts or to mention me in your posts. I do not appreciate being harassed.  And I have copied the moderator in as well to ensure the date and time of my polite request."  

    In the above RUNNING AWAY statement by Tradesecret, He/She confuses "harassment" with his/her not being able to respond to my posts that continue to show Him/Her as the number 1 biblical fool within this forum!   LOL


    Therefore, instead of embarrassingly BEGGING ME once again to lay off of His/Her Bible ignorance, He/She is just not responding anymore to my posts directed to Him/Her.  Therefore, it is a simple biblical fact that Tradesecret is guilty and totally represents this inspired by Jesus passage, to wit: "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."  (Proverbs 18:2). ..... BINGO!

    Of course, we have to add a "she" along what the "he" to this particular passage above to make it totally true for Tradesecret because He/She has yet to address His/Her obvious and ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery to the membership as shown in the link below.  :(




    Stephen, Tradesecrets RUNAWAY SILENT STANCE to our posts to him/her is a blessing in disguise! Therefore, we'll continue to show Him/Her as the number 1 Bible fool on this forum, AND, we don't have to put up with He/She's child like candy-assed ungodly refutations anymore which will just make it easier for us.  Praise Jesus for turning Tradesecret into a BIGGER runaway wimpy pseudo-christian!



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  • Tradesecret
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    My position changes when it needs to.  I am not God so I do change.  I live and I learn and I adapt as I have my ideas tested. And when I am wrong I admit it. 

    Are you suggesting that you never have a need to adapt and learn or do you already know everything?
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    And as for wanting a response to your questions  - when you learn to stop with the drivel and lies and baseless allegations, then I might find the time to answer some of your questions. Until then - you can continue your journey in spam, like your master, Harikrish.  It did not do well for him - it just drove everyone away. But I suppose if your purpose is to drive me away - then who knows you might ultimately get your desire. 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Tradesecret
    My position changes when it needs to.

     Yes it has been have noticed.  Especially when on the backfoot.


     I am not God so I do change. 

    You were created in  your gods image and god does change his mind, depending on which unreliable biblical source you choose to accept as true.  


    Are you suggesting that you never have a need to adapt and learn

    Not when It comes to these scriptures I don't.   After all my initial beliefs about them,  I still stand by my over all opinion that - in the New Testament in particular-  these scriptures are telling another story of  a violent struggle for power among the many religious sects and factions.. I believe the story is there to be wheedled out from the many clues that betray the accepted story of man born of a virgin among straw and cows in a shed to became the messiah  of the Jews / saviour of Christendom . 


    or do you already know everything?

    If you are talking about the scriptures, I believe I know more about them than you ever will, because you are blinded by your faith which renders you incapable of learning anything about these scriptures that are contrary to your indoctrination. 


    Other than that, No, I don't know everything, have never claimed to know everything and am glad that I do not know everything. 

    What I believe know about the scriptures is frightening enough.
     
    You won't forget this will you? >.#10



  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Tradesecret



    .
    TRADESECRET, a Bible 2nd class woman NOW, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO,  Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, an admitted sexual deviant, and had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, 


    YOUR EVER SO SAD AND PATHETIC QUOTE OF THROWING IN THE TOWEL OF DEFEAT ONCE AGAIN:  “And as for wanting a response to your questions  - when you learn to stop with the drivel and lies and baseless allegations, then I might find the time to answer some of your questions.

    Tradesecret, aka, He/She, you have used this non response ruse quoted above before when I have shown you to be so wrong in your biblical thinking, as explicitly shown in my post #7, 8, 10, and 14 within this thread, that you have to quickly find a way out to save what face you have left within this forum.  It is truly sad to always watch you in this position of being the #1 Bible fool of this forum. :(

    You see, your problem is the simple fact that you have been spewing forth your biblical ignorance for so long without it obviously being corrected, that you always thought you were correct as you lead people astray from what Jesus truly has said. That is, until you met myself and MANY others within this forum that have easily Bible Slapped you Silly®️ logically and biblically showing that what you thought you knew, you drastically didn’t, of which comes with your pseudo-christian modus operandi where you are a Christian in name only.

    Do you think that Jesus and I enjoy making you the continued Bible fool? NO, we do not!  We look at it as enlightening you to Jesus’ true words, and unfortunately this comes with our refutations that are strong in their nature. This is because when dealing with your totally inept of the Bible type of pseudo-christian, we have to quickly get through to them in a somewhat “in your face” manner to save time, understood?

    Jesus and I will continue to blatantly correct your outright Bible cluelessness so that you will not continue to preach LIES to your fellow pseudo-chritians, understood? Therefore, maybe you had the right idea in just remaining silent to my posts to save yourself from digging your hole deeper in trying in vain to answer them. Yes? 

    Seriously, and for your sake, have you thought about taking a break from this forum in being totally Bible stupid as I and others have shown you to be ad infinitum? How about while taking your drastically needed break,  maybe you could change your moniker’s name so as to save yourself from being known as the #1 Bible fool within this forum when you return. Yes?  Think about it.

    I have a great idea in your behalf while you take this break from DEBATEART adult Religion forum, and that is you simply visit a Christian Children’s Forum where you will be more comfortable with your ineptness to the Bible. BUT, your only problem in a Children's Christian Forum would be that if a child corrects your cluelessness of the JUDEO-Christian Bible, that would be devastating to what you have left in assumed pride. Oh my. :(

    To help you along, here are a few Christian Children’s Forums for you to peruse, whereas I suggest that you start with children that are preteens and work yourself up to high school teens just to give yourself good footing at the onset, agreed? Yes, you have to agree.




    As before, you can thank me later in helping you out of your Satanic predicament regarding your Bible ineptness and your pseudo-christian faith at this time, okay?  Stay in touch briefly through messaging only, and good luck to you!


    NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN WILL BE...?


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  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Stephen



    .
    Stephen,

    As you have blatantly shown to our number one Bible fool Tradesecret, in how utterly wrong they continue to be regarding the scriptures, do you think that He/She will ever be enlightened to their Satanic ways in the future?

    In showing us and the membership, Trade secret infers that He/She is not like god, where Jesus does not change His mind, but Tradesecret can change their mind. But, our Bible stupid Tradesecret has forgotten the biblical axiom of Jesus' inspired words in literally CHANGING His mind in this passage:  "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." ( 2 Corinthians 5:1)   Whoops. :(.

    Notwithstanding, Jesus' true words state that He does not CHANGE HIS mind, to wit: "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" (Numbers 23:19). 

    Do you see how hard it is for me to be a TRUE Christian in the 21st century, in having to accept the contradictions shown above, where Jesus does change His mind in 2 Corinthians 5:1, and where He does NOT change His mind in Numbers 232:19?   Whew, its a tough faith to follow at times. :(


    As usual to save what face Tradesecret has left within this prestigious forum, He/She has RAN AWAY from every godly post of mine that He/She could NOT address within this thread, whats new? Absolutely NOTHING!  LOL

    Stephen, subjectively speaking, it would behoove poor ol' Tradescret to take a break from this forum, as I have shown in my post #18 above, because truly, how much correction to their blatant Biblical cluelessness can he/she withstand?! .... Sad indeed. :(



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  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Stephen
    not when It comes to these scriptures I don't.   After all my initial beliefs about them,  I still stand by my over all opinion that - in the New Testament in particular-  these scriptures are telling another story of  a violent struggle for power among the many religious sects and factions.. I believe the story is there to be wheedled out from the many clues that betray the accepted story of man born of a virgin among straw and cows in a shed to became the messiah  of the Jews / saviour of Christendom . 
    LOL!

    So it does have an agenda?   I have been waiting for you to reveal even a tiny bit. You have been very careful. LOL! Well at least it explains somewhat the warped views you have. And also why you NEVER reveal your true sources. I would be embarrassed too. 

  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Stephen
    And also despite your replies to me specifically, my above which you replied to was directed at the Brother.  So your responses were actually just another interruption from yourself.  I don't mind that you respond to my words when I write to other people- but don't respond in such a way that you actually think I was writing to you.  All that does it demonstrate you don't read what you are responding to within the context.  

    Still, have a nice day. 
  • RationalMadman
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    If god is real, he/she/it/they is/are supernatural, 100%. I do not even understand how you can back up your claim and would be willing to formally debate you on this topic (with me as Con or even me as Pro to 'God is supernatural, if real'.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @RationalMadman
    If god is real, he/she/it/they is/are supernatural, 100%. I do not even understand how you can back up your claim and would be willing to formally debate you on this topic (with me as Con or even me as Pro to 'God is supernatural, if real'.
    Wow! Now that is a challenge.  Let me think about it for 24 hours.  Thanks for the opportunity to debate you on this question.  I quite like the idea. 
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Mopac
    Certainly, there is a divine nature. I would be careful though lest the impression is given that God is contingent on nature, or limited by His nature.
    Hi Mopac,  

    thanks for your warning. I am puzzled though. Are you warning me as a fellow believer or as a believer to a non-believer? If as a believer to a believer then thanks is welcome, but puzzling, since you have continued to dismiss me and my religion as a non-Christian religion.  If it is as a believer to a non-believer, then I am still puzzled as to why it would matter to you how I describe God? 

    But in relation to your post, I am merely making the point that God himself says "I am that I am". God is limited to his own character according to the Bible. Hence he cannot lie. He cannot sin. He cannot do absurd things. The perception unfortunately by people is that this limit in relation to his own character is judged by a human understanding of limitation. From a sinful human perspective limitation becomes a reducing or somehow an inferior thing. Yet, from a true perspective - limitations are indeed the most superior form of authority and power.  Take for instance the notion of freedom.  Who has superior and greater freedom? The person who has no boundaries or the person who has boundaries? The sinful human would automatically look towards "no boundaries".  Yet they would be mistaken. In fact, without boundaries the notion of freedom has no meaning - in fact it loses meaning.  Even the very word "freedom" itself only has meaning because of the boundary of definitions tied up in the shell of a "word". 

    The person without limitations is lawless.  God on the other hand is just and lawful.  His character is perfect and flawless.  HE is totally consistent. This is one of the meanings of holiness - which not only means separation - but is derived from the English word "whole". Meaning total and without flaw. 

    Yet, I hear your caution. We should not throw pearls before the swine lest they trample it - from their ignorance. 


  • Mopac
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Your seperation from the church isn't because you are intentionally anti-Christian. How would it be right to hold this against you? That said, I fully believe that there is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, and I believe that to be The Orthodox Catholic Church.

    You could say that God cannot be creation, yet God became creation for the sake of our salvation, in no way losing His divinity.

    I don't know, I have no problem calling God supernatural.

    The first definition of supernatural according to Merriam-Webster states "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe"

    Certainly, God exists beyond the universe even.