Open carry

Author: TheUnderdog ,

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  • TheUnderdog
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    The 2nd amendment states, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep AND BEAR arms shall not be infringed".  Bearing arms is open carry.  It therefore should be legal in all 50 states.  Make America armed again.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    The 2nd amendment states, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep AND BEAR arms shall not be infringed".  Bearing arms is open carry.  It therefore should be legal in all 50 states.  Make America armed again.
    Bear arms under what circumstances? If we took that entirely at face value, then any citizen has the right to walk into the white house with an grenade launcher. Which, for obvious reasons, we should not allow. I disagree that the 2nd amendment should allow just anyone to own a weapon since it clearly says that it is for being in a "well regulated militia", which most gun owners aren't. But even if we assume that that is what is meant, there still need to be reasonable restrictions on people's rights for the sake of public safety.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Bear arms means the right to carry arms.

    If we took that entirely at face value, then any citizen has the right to walk into the white house with an grenade launcher.
    Grenade launchers aren't arms and the white house isin't public property.  Every safe person should be allowed to carry an AK 47 while on the street.  That's freedom.

     I disagree that the 2nd amendment should allow just anyone to own a weapon since it clearly says that it is for being in a "well regulated militia", which most gun owners aren't.
    The masses are the militia.

    But even if we assume that that is what is meant, there still need to be reasonable restrictions on people's rights for the sake of public safety.
    There should be some restrictions, but open carry should not be one of them.  The constitution protects open carry.
  • Conway
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    A man has got to know his limitations. 
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Conway
    A man has got to know his limitations. 
    What do you mean?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Bear arms means the right to carry arms.
    did i ever say it wasn't?

    Grenade launchers aren't arms
    arms just means a weapon. a grenade launcher is a weapon. so yes, arms would include a grenade launcher.

    and the white house isin't public property.
    it is owned by the US government. IE it is owned by the public. 

    Every safe person should be allowed to carry an AK 47 while on the street.  That's freedom.
    lol, no it isn't. I could easily say "every person should be allowed to carry a nuclear weapon on the street. That's freedom". It would be just as silly. 

    The masses are the militia.
    no. It specifically says "well regulated militia". "the masses" are, by definition, not well regulated. Therefore the 2nd amendment does not apply to anyone not in a well regulated militia.

    There should be some restrictions, but open carry should not be one of them.  The constitution protects open carry.
    As stated, i disagree the constitution protects open carry for people not in a well regulated militia. but even if it did, there need to be reasonable limits on all rights. You can have the right to drive, but not down a bike path. You have the right to freely walk down the street, but if you are covered in blood the police are definitely going to stop you and question you. In a society, all rights need have limits to protect others. That absolutely includes the "right to bear arms".
  • Conway
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Bearing arms is open carry.  It therefore should be legal in all 50 states.  Make America armed again.
    It was once customary that a man who who walks up to an establishment hiding a pocket pistol would be viewed with suspicion.  In certain settings, a man holding a rifle would be seen as honest and accustomed to carrying himself as a trustworthy individual.

    Today, the opposite is the case in many jurisdictions.  People who carry concealed handguns are among the most trustworthy, and if you walk up to an establishment holding an uncased rifle you would be viewed with suspicion.

    The main thing in terms of the constitutional principle is that people have a legal means of bearing common arms.  There is no universal formula.
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    you are incorrect. in the founder's era, 'bear arms' meant have a gun for a militia. 


  • Conway
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    --> @n8nrgmi
      In the context of firearms "bearing" means to burden yourself with a loaded weapon and accoutrements.  
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Conway
    you are incorrect. read the damn links and educate yourself. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    I am all for the right to bear arms, and even open carry.

    However, concealed carry is a grear deal more diplomatic. Some people feal nervous around those who are armed, and that is just a reality. In many situations, it is a matter of practicality to conceal your firearm.

    Coming from Texas here.

    Most bars say no to open carry. Drunks get stupid around openly displayed firearms. Someone who is unreasonably liquored up can't grab for a concealed firearm.
    Not that I frequent bars, but I do get the reasoning.





  • Death23
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    I think it something like they got to let you carry one way or the other, and it's up to them if it is open or concealed. At least, for 2nd amendment compliance. I don't recall the source.
  • Conway
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    Ten years or so after the Articles of Confederation were ratified, the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution under president George Washington if I recall correctly.  He had to lead a militia himself to subdue a riot induced by the introduction of a whiskey tax.  The federal government did not meddle in affairs of the individual back then, and for the first 90 years the bill of rights was only applied against Congress.   There was no income tax, no IRS, no entitlements, no bureau of Indian affairs, no environmental protections, no secret service.  Politicians dueled against one another.  They didn't filibuster like they do now.  The notion that Congress would mainly concern itself with arms in the context of a militia shouldn't really come as a surprise, since that was one of the few things they had business in.  

    Section. 8.
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    To provide and maintain a Navy;
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And
    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.



  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    arms just means a weapon
    It means gun.

    and the white house isin't public property.
    it is owned by the US government. IE it is owned by the public. 
    The white house isn't public property in that you can't just walk onto the white house.  Only certain people are allowed in the white house.

    lol, no it isn't. I could easily say "every person should be allowed to carry a nuclear weapon on the street. That's freedom". It would be just as silly. 
    Nuclear weapons aren't useful for defense against tyranny.  AK 47s are.