The Corona con. Empty Hospital and arrest for Filming.

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  • Stephen
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    This brave woman walked freely around and empty Gloucester hospital here in the U.K  filming as she went. This is supposed to be one of those hospitals that are overwhelmed, understaffed and has a shortage of beds.

    Empty Hospital.  Certainly no overwhelmed and rushed off their feet staff here.



    Her arrest by what can only be described as Nazis " only carrying out their orders ".



  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    Of course, that is what hospitals look like during a pandemic.  Stripped of all non-essential  visitors and administrators and staff Gloucester Royal is down to 700 patients in beds and 3 or 400 people treating them, almost exclusively in the 11 story patient care building on the campus, where Ms. Hicks never entered. You aren't likely to find many patients or nurses wandering around the lobby, which has been closed to the public since early November.  We do see 15 or 20 people waiting at Accidents & Emergencies which seems pretty normal.

    Let's note that the lady filming is named Debbi Hicks and this is hardly her first rodeo when it comes to conspiracy theories or publicity stunts.  Hicks is a well-known leftist activist and was Vice-Chairperson for the Labour Party in Stroud before she made national news for implying that Theresa May was involved in the 2017 Manchester bombing.

    She was arrested at the beginning of the first lockdown in Gloucester for organizing maskless rallies and again at the beginning of the second lockdown in November.  She was ejected from Gloucester City Council this Spring for disrupting the meeting by claiming censorship after she arrived more than an hour late to her own scheduled presentation. 

    Her arrest by what can only be described as Nazis " only carrying out their orders ".
    I can't say I've read many reports of Nazi storm-troopers saying please and thank you quite so often or waiting politely on the stairs while arrestees closed the door and got dressed.  I also don't remember the stormtroopers releasing arrestees on bail so they could flood the media with film of their arrest.

    I would not call this woman brave for trespassing at a large hosptial during a pandemic while flouting basic hygeine and inventing paranoid fantasies- dangerously cracked is more the description that occurs.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @oromagi
    How can one trespass in a public facility.

    Control by the State BIG BRO.
  • oromagi
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    --> @zedvictor4
    --> @oromagi
    How can one trespass in a public facility.

    Control by the State BIG BRO.
    Schools and prisons are public facilities.  Are you saying it is impossible to trespass in those places?  The White House is a public facility- is all Secret Service protection therefore unjust state control?  Army bases and  nuclear missile silos are public facilities, is it big brotherish of me to hope those facilities are secure?  I think it is quite sensible and ordinary governing for the public to create cordons sanitaire in a time of plague and restrict mentally ill ex-politicians from exploiting the suffering of the infected for only reasons of self-promotion.
  • Stephen
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    Of course, that is what hospitals look like during a pandemic. 

     No they don't.  Other hospitals are claiming to be so overwhelmed and bursting at the seems and short of beds that they are said to be begging other hospital to take patient from other counties. And those makeshift nightingale hospital aren't being used but dismantled.

    "public order offence" in a public building? 

    Does your information come from the local Gloucester rag or the local constabulary? 


  • zedvictor4
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    --> @oromagi
    Yep.

    It's an interesting social, almost natural separation of State and people and all that goes with it.

    Q. When is a member of the public not a member of a public.

    A. When they wear the special outfit and are given the appropriate badge.
  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    Of course, that is what hospitals look like during a pandemic. 

     No they don't.  Other hospitals are claiming to be so overwhelmed and bursting at the seems and short of beds that they are said to be begging other hospital to take patient from other counties.
    They are overwhelmed and bursting at the seams.  That is why large portions of many hospitals have been dark and quiet for much of the past year.  I experienced this personally when my mother die this spring.  A hospital I have known well for all my life and have visited hundreds of time  seemed practically empty.  All the buildings devoted to doctor's offices and therapy and research have stood empty this year along with the thousands of health professionals, patients, and employees who occupied those buildings.  All the many entrances are closed and locked because all traffic is diverted to one secure entrance where only heathcare workers are permitted to pass.  The big parking lots surrounding the campus are empty.

    My mother would call me in the middle of night because her oxygen mask had fallen to the floor or her urine bag was overflowing and nobody had responded to the many pinging alarms for hours.  It would usually take another hour or two just to get a nurse on the phone.  My mother's pneumonia was cleared up within a few days at the hospital  but she kept picking up new healthcare issues due to the overworked hospital system-  firemen filling in for paramedics accidently separated her shoulder in transport, then she picked up a new bacterial infection in her blood when they tried to repair the shoulder, etc.  Six weeks later she succumbed to a host of medical problems, most indirectly caused by the chaos of COVID.

    I live in a hospital district with 3 large hospitals within 3 blocks of my house.  For much of the past year, the massive parking garages have been empty.  The hospital lobbies are closed and dark.  One hospital has a tent set up out front which everybody must pass through before the can get into the hospital.  Because of the proximity to hospitals, many of my neighbors are nurses who report that they've been working 60-70 hrs /week for months.  Most of them have been sick with COVID at some point this past year.  The sound of ambulances and helicopters rushing patients to these hospitals is shockingly constant and bears no resemblance to the prior 11 years I have lived near these emergency rooms.

    The BMJ noted this phenomenon in Oct:

    "The pandemic has seen a recurring assertion in mainstream and social media that hospitals are empty. The implication is that earlier concerns about hospitals being overwhelmed were exaggerated or that clinical staff are workshy, while managers are incompetent or complacent about patients without covid-19 awaiting treatment. But the current low, if steadily rising, numbers of inpatients with covid-191 don’t mean that hospitals are hibernating.

    The DailyTelegraph reported recently that hospitals were “eerily quiet” and “literally half empty.” If you work in acute general hospitals it’s hard to read this stuff and not get upset. Members of the public then engage in frustration with doctors, asking us to explain or defend this fake news.

    I can see how the impression of “emptiness” might take hold for people who set foot in a hospital. They’re not quite as full as they were before the pandemic, but there are valid reasons for this. For infection control and health protection purposes, we have very limited visiting. Some outpatient consultations have been moved to online or telephone. Lobby shops and cafes aren’t running as usual. Car parks have spaces. Physical appointments, tests, and procedures are organised differently, to avoid crowded waiting areas or patient-to-patient transmission. But hospitals are not “literally half empty,” however much this is repeated.

    NHS Wales reported on 1 October that bed occupancy in general and acute beds was back at 87%.2 We’re still waiting for NHS England’s report for Q2 2020, but I’ve seen October data also showing rates of 87%. Attendances at type 1 emergency departments in September 2020 in England were around 13% lower and emergency admissions 9% lower than last year, but they’re growing monthly.3 With a second covid-19 surge now escalating and more infected patients attending or admitted once again—as well as a parallel push by NHS England for elective activity to catch up on a backlog of delayed work—teams around the country are noticing pressures on demand and bed capacity.

    We’re now into the usual seasonal surge of acute admissions for a host of other problems, including non-covid infection. Intensive care staff are gearing up for another potential rapid increase in their bed base, with NHS England issuing discharge guidance and additional funding to help move medically optimised patients from scarce acute beds to community health and social care support.

    I’m hearing many reports of hospital wards or bays having to close because of proven or suspected covid outbreaks, with pressure upstream in emergency departments and beds taken temporarily out of commission, which may then affect elective admissions for surgery and procedures. And escalation plans may again see hospitals organising front door streams and ward bases into “hot” and “cold” areas, to try to separate covid from non-covid patients.

    The NHS entered the pandemic with one of the lowest numbers of acute beds per capita among developed nations4 and was already struggling to meet waiting time standards for emergency departments, surgery, or outpatients. Overcrowding will be disastrous for infection control, but modelling from Edge Health, reported in the Guardian, suggested that over 100 hospital trusts in England would be overwhelmed, at 10% over usual capacity, if a second pandemic surge compounded the usual rise in seasonal admission this winter.

    Even the 90%-plus occupancy in general and acute beds pre-pandemic was too high for safe, flexible bed use, patient flow, and infection control, and it often left patients on trolleys in corridors or ambulances stacked outside.  It’s surely not something to aspire to now. Nor do we want to return to large numbers of “stranded patients,” fit to leave but awaiting community services.

    Finally, we must consider the impact on workforce availability when staff are sick, self-isolating, or awaiting covid-19 tests, in a system already struggling with unfilled posts. So no, hospitals are not “half empty,” and even when they’re less full than usual there are very good reasons."

    You seem to have this perception that a maxed out hospital would have patients dying in the halls and crowds panicking in the lobbies but that is more the stuff of disaster movies than responsible healthcare facilities.  An empty hospital lobby is properly seen as proof of the present state of emergency.
  • oromagi
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    "public order offence" in a public building? 
    By definition, most offences against public order take place in public.  Disorderly behavior in private is both less restricted and less noticed by law enforcement.

    Wandering around a hospital without a mask during this pandemic is and ought to be against the law.  The risks of exposure are not just to the many sick patients with already compromised immune systems but also the healthcare providers-  if a ward full of doctors and nurses must quarantine for 14 days (as has happened multiple times this year) that obviously translates into poorer healthcare across the board.  At present, NHS SOUTHEAST reports 9, 813 hospital staff presently absent from work due to illness or quarantine.  Yes, these workers and patients deserve to be protected from loony chicks foisting their their irrational political agendas on the unsuspecting.

  • oromagi
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     Q. When is a member of the public not a member of a public.

    A. When they wear the special outfit and are given the appropriate badge.
    So soldiers and firefighters and girl scouts and airline attendants and McDonald's cashiers are all not members of the public because they wear a special outfit and appropriate badge?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @oromagi
    Yep...Some exaggerated examples there, but that's the general principle.

    But even within the confines of a McDonalds establishment, the customer becomes the general public, and are subject to the rules and conditions laid down by the McDonalds organisation.

    I was merely observing that humans have a general tendency to accept authority, without consideration.
  • Stephen
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    They are overwhelmed and bursting at the seams.  

    Yes so much so they are dismantling some of these relief hospitals 

     AND maybe all of the staff and patience at this  other overwhelmed hospital are all out celebrating new year

  • oromagi
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    They are overwhelmed and bursting at the seams.  

    Yes so much so they are dismantling some of these relief hospitals 

     AND maybe all of the staff and patience at this  other overwhelmed hospital are all out celebrating new year

    You should read my posts when you get a chance.  The phenomenon your video is showing is well explained.  Yes, I am preferring NHS daily reports to the investigative output of a 2 minute parler vid.  Can you name this hospital?  Can you name the person making the vid?
  • Stephen
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    Did you get your initial information from the NHS web site or their twitter page? 
  • Stephen
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    Full to the brim and in crisis?

    Princess Royal Hospital, Bromley. 



    Croydon.



    Gloucester



    Strange how all three of these hospitals are said to be "at breaking point"  yet hardly a soul around in any of them.



    Critical care bed usage in 2020 is LOWER than the three year average!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    NHS daily reports (and many other details) were sourced from the NHS website.  I probably looked at forty or fifty sources overall for Debbi Hicks details, etc.
  • Stephen
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    --> @oromagi

    Did you get your initial information from the NHS web site or their twitter page? 

    NHS daily reports (and many other details) were sourced from the NHS website

     Ok. I am not surprised then by your pro comments.

    But let me tell you this. Nursing runs in both  my wife's and my own families. At the moment we  have family members; nieces and  daughters- in- law that are fully qualified nurses.  During the first lockdown when hospitals were said to be " overwhelmed"  , one of our daughters- in - law and two of our nieces were put on a two day week for the whole of the lockdown period . And  there were at least four weeks where they were told not to go into work at all.

    And that "11 story" building you spoke of is mainly labs, class rooms and  lodgings . With a small out patients on the ground floor that is closed.


    Critical care bed usage in 2020 is LOWER than the three year average!!!!!!!!!!!!




  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    Full to the brim and in crisis?

    Princess Royal Hospital, Bromley. 



    Croydon.



    Gloucester



    Strange how all three of these hospitals are said to be "at breaking point"  yet hardly a soul around in any of them.
    I argued that empty is what hospitals look like during a pandemic.  You countered, "No, they don't" and yet you have now offered 3 Parler vids from 3 different hospitals demonstrating exactly what I said.  I confirmed that I have personal experience with 4 other hospitals in the US that also look like this right now.  Everybody agrees that all the hospitals in the Western world look strikingly empty right now.  Doctors and nurses and patients and journalists and government officials and my own personal experience testify that this is because hospitals are an important vector for COVID-19.  The public facing sections of hospitals are closed to the public as standard best pandemic practice  and the hundreds of thousands of people that would normally be occupying those spaces are under orders to stay at home.  There is nothing surprising or hard to understand about these empty halls in hospitals.

    You have chosen to believe that this serves as evidence that the coronavirus pandemic is a hoax which makes absolutely zero sense.  If the pandemic was a hoax, wouldn't hospitals look normal with lots of people coming in for the every day checkups and tests and scans and treatments?   Do you really suspect that all the millions and millions doctors and nurses and patients and journalists and government officials around the world are secretly, omnipotently conspiring together to produce the false effect of a pandemic and also secretly emptying out all the hospitals of all the sick and dying around the world for some unexplained reason?

    What is your logic here?  What is your rationale?  Why do YOU suppose all the hospitals have looked empty this year if the pandemic does not explain it?


    Critical care bed usage in 2020 is LOWER than the three year average!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Citation please.  The NHS says they've stopped collecting Critical Care Bed Capacity & Urgent Operation statistics "Due to the coronavirus illness (COVID-19) and the need to release capacity across the NHS to support the response"  The Kings Fund only has Critical Care bed usage stats up to Jan 2020.  What data are you using to justify this claim?



  • Stephen
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    What data are you using to justify this claim?
    I posted a vid and it is irrelevant where it came from. I am not claiming the information is reliable. I will say though that I have no reason to dismiss it out of hand. 


    Critical care bed usage in 2020 is LOWER than the three year average!!!!!!!!!!!!
    and yet you have now offered 3 Parler vids from 3 different hospitals

     I have and all  of them showing not a single sign of them being "overwhelmed" " or at  "breaking point"  .  Yes, I got you argument that this is what they are "supposed to look like during a pandemic", I am just not buying it. 





  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    Nursing runs in both  my wife's and my own families. At the moment we  have family members; nieces and  daughters- in- law that are fully qualified nurses.  During the first lockdown when hospitals were said to be " overwhelmed"  , one of our daughters- in - law and two of our nieces were put on a two day week for the whole of the lockdown period . And  there were at least four weeks where they were told not to go into work at all.
    So here you have first hand evidence that many people who would normally be working at hospitals are being asked to stay at home during the pandemic and yet you are still wondering why the hospitals look empty.  Do your nurse relatives suppose they are being unnecessarily duped into taking paid leave for nefarious reasons?  Do your nurse relations likewise believe the coronavirus is a hoax?

    And that "11 story" building you spoke of is mainly labs, class rooms and  lodgings . With a small out patients on the ground floor that is closed.

    I don't know why you've got 11 story in quotes but my sources for the number of floors is GRH's wikipedia page:

    "The hospital was rebuilt in the 1960s and eventually incorporated a new 11-storey tower, the work on which started in 1970 and was completed in 1975"

    According to GRH's website, all the regular patient wards of this hospital are in the tower block except for pediatric & maternity


    Surgical Assessment and Admissions Suite (SAAS)
    The Surgical Admissions Suite cares for patients who are having elective (planned) surgery and who are expected to stay in hospital overnight or longer. The unit is located in the main corridor from the Tower entrance, and is situated above the Pharmacy department. There is a lift to the right hand side of the stairway.

    Ward 2A
    Ward 2A specialises in treating trauma and orthopaedic patients and is located on the second floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 2B
    Ward 2B specialises in treating patients who have head or neck cancers and is located on the second floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 3A
    Ward 3A specialises in treating trauma and orthopaedic patients and is located on the third floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 3B
    Ward 3B specialises in treating trauma and orthopaedic patients and is located on the third floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 4A
    Ward 4A specialises in treating medical patients and is located on the fourth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 4B
    Ward 4B specialises in treating general and old-age medicine patients. It is located on the fourth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 5A
    Ward 5A specialises in treating upper gastrointestinal patients. It is located on the fifth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 5B
    Ward 5B specialises in treating general surgery patients and is located on the fifth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 6A
    Ward 6A specialises in old age medicine. It is located on the sixth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 6B
    Ward 6B specialises in old age medicine. It is located on the sixth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 7A
    Ward 7A is a Renal service, helping to centralise the general medical patients that they currently look after on outlying wards and releasing specialised dialysis beds for acutely unwell patients.

    Ward 7B
    Ward 7B specialises in treating renal (kidney) patients and is located on the seventh floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 8A
    Ward 8A treats neurology and stroke patients and is located on the eighth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 8B
    Ward 8B specialises in treating respiratory patients and is located on the eighth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 9A
    Ward 9A treats gynaecology patients and is located on the ninth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    Ward 9B
    Ward 9B specialises in treating general and old-age medicine patients. It is located on the ninth floor of the Tower Block at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital.

    According to GRH's campus map, we'd also expect to see the chapel, general offices, patients services, bereavement services  coffee, and gift shop on the ground floor of the the Tower Block- all of which are closed during the pandemic.

    Where are you getting your information from and why does it seem so very innacurate?

    Critical care bed usage in 2020 is LOWER than the three year average!!!!!!!!!!!!

    see my request for documentation in prior post

  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    I posted a vid and it is irrelevant where it came from. I am not claiming the information is reliable.

    Well, okay.  My sources are numerous and relevant and generally reliable.  Since you won't make the same claim regarding your sources, I suggest that readers should trust my argument more.
  • Stephen
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    Do your nurse relatives suppose they are being unnecessarily duped in
    No.  They  know they have been sent home or told not to turn up because " there is nothing to do" and  that there are  " more than enough hands on deck".

    I am sure that  after all of the world wide pandemics that you have lived through you may  be able to tell us;  are those makeshift Nightingale hospitals running at full capacity?


    generally reliable.

    Are they as reliable as the BBC?


    Matron at a London Hospital:  "We now have a wards full of children here".



    Consultant at the same hospital:  " This is simply not true and is  irresponsible ". 


    'Simply untrue': London children's hospital consultant blasts 'irresponsible' nurse who gave BBC radio interview claiming she saw 'a whole ward of children' with coronavirus
    • Paediatrician Dr Ronny Cheung blasted 'lies' around children with Covid-19
    • He said there were not 'wards' filled with children suffering from coronavirus
    • A matron at a London hospital claimed she was seeing 'whole wards' of children



  • oromagi
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    --> @Stephen
    @oromagi
    Do your nurse relatives suppose they are being unnecessarily duped in
    No.  They  know they have been sent home or told not to turn up because " there is nothing to do" and  that there are  " more than enough hands on deck".

    I am sure that  after all of the world wide pandemics that you have lived through you may  be able to tell us; 
    I am a gay man old enough to have seen a lot of friends and lovers die because of mass denialism and anti-science by conservative politicians during a pandemic.  So in spite of your sarcasm,  it is true that I have lived through a few world wide pandemics.  Certainly, I have witnessed how 32 million can die without ever filling up the hospitals.

    are those makeshift Nightingale hospitals running at full capacity?
    So now the goalpost has shifted from hospitals at full capacity to overflow facilities at full capacity?  Although the NHS has been ramping up the Nightingales a bit during the last few weeks, this solution was only ever likely to be effective if coronavirus spiked in one region but not others.  That's because nightingale hospitals have to be staffed to the same standard as any other NHS hospitals and when the pandemic has spread everywhere, there is simply no staff available.  For example, the NHS started 2020 with about 50,000 unfilled nursing jobs, a 16% shortfall with another 30-35,000 nurses absent (more than half due to COVID).  What's the point of putting up new hospitals when the present hospitals only have about 2/3rds of the requisite staff?

    Are they as reliable as the BBC?
    Like I said, I looked at a lot of sources, including a lot of local stuff and political stuff that I wouldn't trust as well as the BBC but generally yes.

    Matron at a London Hospital:  "We now have a wards full of children here".
    Laura Duffel misspoke.  While the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health does have several wards devoted to COVID patient overflow, these patients are adults.  There are still relatively few cases of children very ill with coronavirus.  They have wards full of COVID patients and wards full of children but very few children with COVID.


    Consultant at the same hospital:  " This is simply not true and is  irresponsible ". 

    'Simply untrue': London children's hospital consultant blasts 'irresponsible' nurse who gave BBC radio interview claiming she saw 'a whole ward of children' with coronavirus
    While I'd encourage you to never look to the Daily Mail for any kind of honest reporting of any kind I'm glad you are willing to believe at least one heath professional.

    Will you continue to believe Dr. Ronny Cheung when he retweets, "My hospital is full of covid. But the patients are not children."  ?

    or 

    "I have modicum of sympathy for those suspicious of #COVID19 overdiagnosis - that at least is within realms of possibility. But ppl who cry massive sophisticated cover up, with whole NHS orchestrating fake full ICUs when it's all empty, that's just nuts. We still use pagers, ffs" ?

    Your own source says quite succinctly that your theories are "just nuts"

22 days later

  • sadolite
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    The hospital in my town has never had more than 43 covid patients at any one time. Not even close to capacity.