What I realized

Author: Tarik ,

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  • Tarik
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    For those of you that believe morality is subjective, a big reason I have a hard time grasping the concept is choice, assuming that it’s true, when comparing it to other unequivocally subjective things there’s a difference and that’s choice, take for example our tastes in food, for those of you this applies to we don’t choose to like unhealthy foods more than healthy foods we just do, or even our tastes in sound we don’t choose to like singer A’s voice more than singer B’s voice we just do. But that doesn’t apply to morality, we choose what code of conduct we want to follow and if we see another following a different one we can dispute theirs in comparison to ours with the hopes of persuading them. Unless you can give examples of other subjective things that are choice I think it’s reasonable to question why is this only the case here and not in any other case and I also think it’s reasonable to have doubt based on that observation. 

    Last note usually when one doesn’t know what a word means (morality) they defer to the dictionary and because they don’t know they approach the definition with an open objective mind, and if you do that that’s also operating under the assumption that the word itself is objective because if you operate under the assumption that it’s subjective your approaching the word with preconceived notions and you wouldn’t be doing that if you don’t know what a word means. But what about subjective words like opinion? I would argue that the only reason we can comprehend what an opinion is is because we ourselves have them, so probably the best way to define it is by examples like the ones I used earlier food and sound, but what if your deaf, blind, and have no sense of taste or smell? Then maybe in that case you can’t comprehend an opinion because you probably won’t have any yourself.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    we don’t choose to like unhealthy foods
    we don’t choose to like singer A’s voice more than singer B’s voice
    we don't choose our desires.

    we don't choose our motives.

    we don't choose our parents.

    we don't choose our birthplace.

    Your "religion" and consequently your "moral code" is largely an accident of birth.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    the assumption that the word itself is objective
    Everything you do. Your choice to get out of bed is based on your personal feelings or opinions. Every single choice you make is motivated by your e-motion.
  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    At birth we can’t even comprehend what religion is, we’re babies lol

  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    You’re conflating two separate things the nature of a word and it’s definition is separate from the choices that I make.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @3RU7AL
    you should take pride in what you were born with
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    You’re conflating two separate things the nature of a word and it’s definition is separate from the choices that I make.
    Please explain.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    you should take pride in what you were born with
    Why would anyone be "proud" of something they were given with ZERO EFFORT?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    Every single choice you make is motivated by your e-motion.
  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Sure, the word objective and it’s definition exists regardless of what I say, do, or think, that’s why it’s separate, even if emotion drives every decision that’s not the same as saying there’s no objectivity, would you like me to give examples (outside religion contexts)?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    Sure, the word objective and it’s definition exists regardless of what I say, do, or think,
    Think about the definition of "objective" specifically the "exists independently of a mind" portion.

    Now imagine a world with no human minds.

    Does the "definition" of "objective" still "exist"?

    I'm pretty certain, even by the most generous definition of "objective" possible, that NO ABSTRACT NOUNS "EXIST".

    ONLY CONCRETE NOUNS "EXIST".
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    even if emotion drives every decision that’s not the same as saying there’s no objectivity,
    (IFF) your definition specifically EXCLUDES EMOTION (THEN) yes, yes, no human is capable of an "objective" thought.

    would you like me to give examples (outside religion contexts)?
    What did you eat today and why?
  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Now imagine a world with no human minds.

    Does the "definition" of "objective" still "exist"?
    Yes, because that statement no human minds exist will be a fact and facts are objective.

    yes, yes, no human is capable of an "objective" thought.
    No, human minds existing is an objective thought because it’s factual.

    What did you eat today and why?
    I don’t see how answering a question with a question is responsive but nothing yet as far as I can tell (considering it’s 2:58 PM where I am and I’m not sure if I might’ve slipped something in past  or during 12 AM).

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    Yes, because that statement no human minds exist will be a fact and facts are objective.
    Abstract concepts are not "objective".

    Logical tautologies (FACTS) do not "exist" in the same way that concrete OBJECTS "exist".
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    yes, yes, no human is capable of an "objective" thought.
    No human minds existing is an objective thought because it’s factual.
    "No human minds existing" is a HYPOTHETICAL THOUGHT, not a "factual" description.
  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Facts isn’t an abstract concept, I literally gave an example of a fact a post ago.

    But concrete objects existing is a fact is it not?

    Pardon me I should’ve put a comma after saying no, I just fixed it.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    What did you eat today and why?
    I don’t see how answering a question with a question is responsive...
    Because it's an example of something you did because of your FEELINGS.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    Facts isn’t an abstract concept, I literally gave an example of a fact a post ago.
    A FACT must be empirically demonstrable and or logically-necessary.

    If you personally prefer a different definition of "fact" please simply present it for consideration.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    But concrete objects existing is a fact is it not?
    Abstract concepts are NOT concrete objects.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Your religion and consequently your moral code is largely an accident of birth.
    Excellent statement.



    The response also spoke volumes.
  • Tarik
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Because it's an example of something you did because of your FEELINGS.
    I don’t recall doing that.

    A FACT must be empirically demonstrable and or logically-necessary.
    Yes, and the human mind is empirically demonstrable, and logically necessary (In certain contexts).

    Abstract concepts are NOT concrete objects.
    I didn’t say that, I said concrete objects exist.

  • Tarik
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    --> @zedvictor4
    How is that possible when the response refutes the statement you deem as excellent?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Tarik
    The response was either childish or naive.

    I shouldn't have to explain what 3RU7AL meant by accident of birth.
  • Tarik
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Maybe you should since you have a habit of presuming other peoples motives.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Tarik
    Yes, and the human mind is empirically demonstrable, and logically necessary (In certain contexts).
    The human brain is empirically demonstrable.

    The human mind is merely apparent.