United States House of Representatives Mafia DP1

Author: ILikePie5

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Elminster
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This is now a policy lynch I'm proposing to hold him to the same standard he says I need to reform from 

I'm obviously playing this game 


1) lynching him gives us his flip which is also useful based on his interaction with people. 
2) him and I can't be alive near the end if he's going to be stubborn, as mafia will auto hammer.

If he's intentionally willing to throw to prove a point even though I'm actively engaging. He deserves to be out through the same standard I was held to. 

He has no high ground. 



Elminster
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Unfortunately I think he's town. I hope he's mafia, but he's likely town. If this is a mafia gambit I'm impressed. It's more likely he's just being petty 
Elminster
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I'm also going to join every game he plays in to force town to pick between him and I to show the extent of his prettiness

I'm perfectly willing to play in anyone and have not even shown a hint at not trying. So I'm willing to test this on a "moderator" to highlight the hypocrisy being displayed

Elminster
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Pettiness. 

Can't comment on his looks. 

Vader
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@Lunatic
Yea. It makes sense for my role and if that's the case, the pieces fit well. 
whiteflame
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@Elminster
If Pie is consistently reaching for justifications, then why would I bother concealing mine if I was scum? I feel that my character claim is tied pretty well to my role. Maybe that’s just me.
Lunatic
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@drafterman
pie's fairly predictable answer was :
I can’t answer questions about roles other than yours.

drafterman
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@Lunatic
Interesting because he's been answering my questions about how my role interacts with others.
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@whiteflame
I don't have issues character claiming, I have issues with full claiming in DP1. I think it's detrimental to town
Lunatic
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@drafterman
I'm actually going to but Lunatic in my town pile. I don't buy him going through all of these shenanigans of claiming 1x vig but then clarifying it with this stuff about how it works if he's targeted by the mafia.
What changed between the time when I initially claimed this and you were spinning me and elmin as a buddying scum team and now? lol you could have come to this same conclusion when I first clarified how the role worked but scum read me. Is it because I am now promising to vig you? If I vig you and am killed you know it paints to as scummy. It makes sense that you would want to town read me at this point in hopes of me changing my mind on vigging you and not nailing a confirmed scum. I'd almost town read you more for doubling down. 

So I am left with you doubling down on lynching mikal, but being flexible in reading a person whose role only has negative implications to you if used exactly how I am using it now. Interesting. 
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Would you answer a question about how another role works?
drafterman
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@Lunatic
I have no asperations in changing your mind. You do what you want to do. As far as what has changed, I claim no special sort of speed to which I process information. This is simply how long it has taken me the process the given information and come to a conclusion.
Lunatic
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@Elminster
Is he actually that stubborn he does this as town or is it trying to get a mislynch. 

Drafter is one of the more stubborn people in mafia, because he knows how to cook a good argument. Yes it is possible for him to be town here, but it is also very likely he is scum.

Also speed is defending him. Don't see that as scum either 

Agreed, speeds defense seems legit even if I disagree. 
Lunatic
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@drafterman
Interesting because he's been answering my questions about how my role interacts with others.

I don’t answer questions about roles other then their own. Scum can ask questions about each other’s roles obviously

Pie just said this to me.

unvote, vtl drafterman.
drafterman
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Well, I have no defense against a mod lying.

I have specifically asked if my role will strengthen other roles and allow them to function if that player is killed. He said no.

I have asked him if it will prevent cops' results from being interfered with by a lawyer or framer or miller or godfather and he said no.

So clearly Pie is willing to answer questions about how my role interacts with ohters.

So either Lunatic is lying or Pie is being a bastard mod.
ILikePie5
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Vote Count:

Drafterman (3/6) -  Greyparrot, Elm, Lunatic
Whiteflame (1/6) - Speed
Elminster (1/6) - Drafter

Elminster
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@Lunatic
Lol ez
drafterman
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Claimed
Mr. Drafterman - ???? - Strengthener
Mr. Lunatic - Lauren Boebert - 1x Vig
Mr. Bullish - From Florida/Not GOP
Mr. Chris - Democrat
Mr. Greyparrot - Harold Rogers - Self-Watcher

Unclaimed
Mr. Supa
Mr. Whiteflame
Mr. Speed
Mr. Warren
Mr. Elminster
Mr. WaterPhoenix


Elminster
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@Lunatic
I don't even have to policy lynch. Bro just scum slipped

You know what to do tonight. 

Elminster
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Lunatic
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@drafterman
In as much as I have clarified how my role works, it is in exactly the same manner that you have clarified. My calling yours a lie was out of line, I will admit. But as I stated, the end result is the same in that the original parameters of the agreement cannot be met, therefore it is void.
This is an assumption, pie hasn't answered that this is the case. It is complete semantics that is being used to assume that your role won't amplify mine.

No it isn't. It is literally designed around roleblockers, drivers, redirectors, and protective roles.
Those are are mechanics that influence how a role works. Your role influences mechanics, therefore logically it should influence the mechanics with mine as well. Pie making my role completely useless is one thing, but making it weak and balanced by another role (yours) makes much more sense.

In the original agreement you stipulated that the only way to stop your role was through roleblocking. Is that or is that not the case currently? If it is not the case, then the original agrement is voided.
Me targeting mafia and a kill not going through doesn't negatively effect the consequences unless you are going back to your original claim that I would forfeit my role just to make you look bad because elm is my scum buddy. In the chance the kill failed, it would paint elminster as scum and mean he is the lynch, which you say you want. Nothing has changed what the percieved benefit to you is.

I'm less interested in preventing him from quitting than mitigating the end result of him quitting. I consider his exit from the game to be a nigh certainty and as I stated earlier on, him being removed from the game earlier is better than latter, regardless of his affiliation.
He has proven to actively try and scum hunt here. You voted him initially because you said he wouldn't. That you are unwilling to budge here calls your motive into question of wanting him lynched, or actually wanting him to help progress the game. Which he is doing. So it's either personal, a waste of a vote, or you are trying for a mislynch.

You aren't just punishing mikal here, you are punishing the entire team by not even trying to consider his affiliation. Also if anything you are doing mikal a favor with your "punishment" he doesn't like playing here.
Then he should be on board with it. I win. He wins. We all win by not having a player that doesn't want to be here. Win-win-win.
The win win was following through with my plan which would have killed him and got you what you wanted and prevent him from throwing the game. The whole purpose of the deal was to prove to you that mikal was willing to play ball if you gave him the chance. You still aren't doing that in the face of him playing seriously. 

A person who acts like elminster, you mean a person who is trying to play a normal game and adding pressure to inactives and questioning other players? He is doing more for the town right now than you are.
By sheeping you? I'm sure it's in your interest to spin sheeping you as being beneficial to town. But I don't think that bears objective scrutiny.
Both of us have mentioned sheeping each other, in so far as we both think the other is town. In actuality, we are bouncing ideas off each other and getting feedback. A miniture town block, sure but a far cry from the 0-effort sheeping your are implying.

And nothing has changed if your rules functions the way you said it did in post 103.
Nothing changed period, unless you are operating under the idea that I am scum trying to use the lack of a kill on mikal against you which I already said wouldn't be the case, because it would instead make elminster look scummy. 

The only drawback that can happen is if you are roleblocked, I am night killed, and Mikal is the scum who isn't carrying the night kill. In which case my role also operates as an investigative one and we would know for a fact that mikal is scum and end up lynchinh him anyway.
Since you just contemplated how this plan might fail, does that make you scum now, since it apparently makes me scum?
If the plan was indeed to get you mislynched, which I have said multiple times now only implicates mikal upon failing. The compromise was never made to prove me or you was town or scum, it was made to get use of day phase 1. You are the one who made it about proving one or the other as scum.

There is nothing about my role that suggests it was put in to count yours.
Except for the existence of the role itself.

Even permitting the free roleblock, I agree that my role should by pass it and allow the ability to work, but Pie has ruled that is not the case.
Where?
In our PM.
Pie would only answer qeustions about how a roleblocker works to other scum members... This seems literal proof you are scum. 
Lunatic
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@Elminster
I don't even have to policy lynch. Bro just scum slipped

You know what to do tonight. 


He 100% scum slipped. Don't even need to do anything tonight, if town isn't convinced to lynch him now, then they didn't read what just happened.
Elminster
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@Lunatic
It's fucking glorious

drafterman
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@Lunatic
Then that means if I'm lynched in flip town, you are absolutely, positively 100% scum, right?
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@Greyparrot
@Vader
@Bullish
@warren42
@Speedrace
We have a scum slip boiz. Mod confirms that he won't answer questions unless they have to do with your role or your scum mates role. Drafter claims he was told how a roleblocker works, which means pie is bastard modding, or the roleblocker is in a PM with drafter. If you aren't convinced, go ahead and ask the mod if hewould answer how another role works in your private pm. 

Vote drafter. Vote scum!
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
@MisterChris
@WaterPhoenix
We have a scum slip boiz. Mod confirms that he won't answer questions unless they have to do with your role or your scum mates role. Drafter claims he was told how a roleblocker works, which means pie is bastard modding, or the roleblocker is in a PM with drafter. If you aren't convinced, go ahead and ask the mod if hewould answer how another role works in your private pm. 

Vote Drafter! Vote scum!
Lunatic
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@drafterman
Then that means if I'm lynched in flip town, you are absolutely, positively 100% scum, right?
It doesn't even need to be a me vs you dynamic. Everyone can confirm this themselves by simply asking the mod the question to figure out you are the only outlier. Unless your scum buddies are nice enough to want to come forward with their scum mates roles too. I am cool with that option as well.
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@Lunatic
You didn't answer the question. If I'm telling the truth, you're lying, correct?
Elminster
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@Lunatic
What's even better is when he flips scum 

Basically confirms a roleblocker exists. 

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@drafterman
You didn't answer the question. If I'm telling the truth, you're lying, correct?
I did answer the question: Your question frames this as a me vs you, which is not the dynamic we are working with here since others can confirm the same information. The dynamic is you are lying, or the mod is lying. If the mod is lying here, I will join you in lecturing him in the end game for giving us conflicting information.