I am telling the truth; Lucifer is not Satan, God of OT is.

Author: RationalMadman ,

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  • RationalMadman
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    This is the truth, I promise you, read carefully. Lucifer is a different guy and if anything he is Jesus.

    God of OT = Devil = Satan

    Lucifer = Jesus 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @RationalMadman
    God of OT = Devil = Satan

    What do you think then about the story of Job, where both God and Satan are clearly depicted as separate entities, contrasting entities?


    "6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

    7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

    8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

    9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?


    12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord."




  • RationalMadman
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    The 'Lord God' (the father) is a version of god that Lucifer/Jesus invented and depicted in a narrative he wished to use in order to depict the perception he had of the God he'd actually had to deal with and call that father the devil/Satan.

    God of the OT is the character that Jesus and gis disciples (except for Judas) see as a separate entity named Satan.
  • RationalMadman
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    Satan is the dark/evil version of God. He uses the persona to test people deceptively and punish them sadistically while maintaining his base persona's good reputation.
  • EtrnlVw
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    Are you creating your own narratives/interpretations as you feel depicts reality best as you see it, or is this the narrative you believe is presented by the Authors of the scriptures?
  • RationalMadman
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    Neither. I am seeking beyond what the human authors may have wanted to depict towards what is true if the characters and events in the Bible are all in fact real.
  • EtrnlVw
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    Oh okay, so you're saying that they may have not even known....assuming what you're saying is true?
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @RationalMadman
    are you arguing the duality?

    evil/dark = satan, good/light = God

    evil/dark = lucifer, good/light = Jesus

    Otherwise, i don't see how this can be true

    do you have proof?
  • RationalMadman
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    The Bible was written as a political lubricant to justify heinous conquering and masking it behind a moral code. Everything about its ethics scream obedience and to fear one's master.
  • RationalMadman
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    Yes I am arguing in fact that both God and Jesus had a darker persona.
  • Intelligence_06
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    uh... I am not sure why this exists. We don't even know that the bible is true.
  • RationalMadman
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    The same reason anything exists; it just does.
  • Intelligence_06
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    So why do you think so? How about give bible evidence?
  • RationalMadman
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    Oh there is plenty, I have done other threads on some highlights. The key is deeper than any one written verse though, it lies in truly observing a few things.

    Firstly, Lucifer couldn't be smited down to Hell, there was no Hell in the OT. Let's start there.

  • Dr.Franklin
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    do you have biblical verses that could hint at that conclusion?
  • EtrnlVw
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    The Bible was written as a political lubricant to justify heinous conquering and masking it behind a moral code.

    I'm not arguing anything as of yet, I'm just trying to understand the methods in which you arrive at conclusions and if they make sense. I'm not sure if this was an answer to my last question, but it doesn't seem to fit IMO. 
    Was the OT written as a means to subdue and manipulate the Jewish culture at that time? I guess at some level you could make that argument based on its contents but that doesn't seem to fit with the agendas of the authors or characters of the scriptures. I don't believe that particular culture or its leaders depicted in the Bible had any agendas of heinous conquering that seems ridiculous. To me, it seems more likely they were subject to fear and uncertainty through the relentless pursuit of opposing cultures with the agendas of mass conquering and they were more or less forced into a position of protection and defense (survival). 
    I mean given the nature of that time period, if a culture wanted to survive in such a brutal environment they too had to be brutal just to remain alive, kill or be killed right? 

    Was the Bible written to subjugate the masses under political authority and agenda? I don't think so. It doesn't fit the narratives instead seems to contradict that assertion and in fact serves to undermine political control in many ways. I could see perhaps how it "could" be used as a means to control people but I don't think that was the intentions of the writers. Besides the fact that religion had yet separated from politics the Bible is a spiritual book, which emphasizes authority outside of worldly affairs. 

    Much less we have the arrival of Jesus in the NT which at every turn opposed both religious and governing authority in every way, and in a culture where religious authority ruled that part of the world Jesus could have been considered a rebellion (and was). So it's ironic that anyone would make the claim that the Bible was written to conquer and control when the very contents serve to break those holds. 
    Jesus actually changed the face of religion and eventually was the key foundation in breaking apart that religious regime. With His message of freedom and love for God I don't see how it could reflect anything other than that. Again, the NT does not fit the narrative of heinous conquering IMO. If anything Jesus was giving power back in the hands of the people not authority and He did that without the use of invoking violence (turn the other cheek). 

    Everything about its ethics scream obedience and to fear one's master.

    Okay but obedience and fear (or reverence) for one's master is not always a bad thing and in many ways can be understood as a good thing. Spirituality is based around self-control and submission because many times we get lost in the limitations and perceptions of the self, so it's good practice to be aware of the fact that there exists a higher transcendent reality involved outside of our own limitations and perspectives of life. 
    As you know the world is full of wackos lol, and people who lack self-control and stability so these key factors serve a useful purpose. 
    Take martial arts for example as a form of obedience and respect for one's master, what purpose does that serve? it helps the individual achieve a greater state of being through self control, application and subservience to their teachers and in doing so the student is able to develop themselves into something they previously lacked. 
    This same premise extends to spirituality and is quite necessary. Now I'm not saying that religious control is always a good thing, not at all it depends on the context of course....I'm just saying obedience and reverence are key principles in achieving a superior state of being and are not a negative quality in relation to God. 

    Again I'm not necessarily arguing that you are wrong here, but I am pointing out what may be contrary to what you are saying. I too have my own ideas and concepts that fall away from an orthodox interpretation. 



  • Polytheist-Witch
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    God of Abraham is not all good but I do not think he's Satan. Satan is part  the faith but not how Christians see it.   Jesus is some poor guy tied into the bs by the Romans to convert Jews and gentiles to control them all.