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You have to give justification for your point of view, 

 I did you clown. I quoted the bible just as you have done.HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4


This does not cut it: "every eye will see him," <<<<<<<<<<DID EVERY EYE SEE HIM RETURN?  NO!

See Him in what way? 

Arrive the same way as he went HERE>>>Acts 1:11

And according to millions of Christians, he hasn't returned yet. Are they stupid to believe he will soon?

Jesus said He would return in that generation. 

And he didn't according to 2Peter 3:4


How is the Bible inconsistent when properly understood? The problem is that you think you have correctly interpreted it when you have not. 
 I haven't interpreted it in anyway at all. I have simply repeated what the scripture actually states, not what I want it to state., unlike YOU!




You pay no attention to the meanings found in Scripture, just make it up, 

Oh ffs stop it!!!  YOU are the one that has made up the story of Jesus crucified DEAD  and lying stinking in a grave for three days, then rising ALIVE from his grave and  going up into the clouds of heaven  to then descend back to earth and his  return to already have happened in AD 66_70, NOT ME!


When you examine prophecy, everything He said did happen in His Olivet Discourse happened. 

 STOP LYING!!!!  These were the OT prophecies:

Isaiah 43:5-6.       Gathering all the diaspora (scattered)Jews from around the globe back to Jerusalem.  FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.

Zechariah 14:9   The god of the Hebrews will be followed universally uniting humanity as one. FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.

Isaiah 2:4             Usher in a world peace, ending all suffering oppression and illnesses.   FAIL!   And failed twice if you are to be believed.

Ezekiel 37:26-28  Build a third temple.   FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.



Meanwhile, here are some videos  concerning "the signs" that we are all to look out for complete with BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return.



What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.

I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 


He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”  <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it? 
You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.

 No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11
Bare assertions. 

No they are biblical facts. I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say  AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!

So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.

Stinking corpses indeed!

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@Stephen
You have to give justification for your point of view, 

 I did you clown. I quoted the bible just as you have done.HERE>>>. “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4
Please, I'll ask you again (second time), refrain from the ad homs.

You refuse to consider the whole context of 2 Peter or his first letter either. 

2 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

Peter makes it known to the believer that they did not follow clearly devised tales. He was an eyewitness of Jesus' glory when He was taken into the Shekinah glory. There is a contrast between true believers and those who profess belief. Peter is telling the true believer that the Lord is not slow in keeping His promises, not wanting any of them to perish.

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their indecent behavior, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

[i]Reckless, self-centered, they speak abusively of angelic [j]majesties without trembling, 11 whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a demeaning judgment against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, using abusive speech where they have no knowledge, will in [k]the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13 suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their [l]deceptions as they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery [m]that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having hearts trained in greed, accursed children; 15 abandoning the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the [n]reward of unrighteousness; 16 but he received a rebuke for his own offense, for a mute donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the insanity of the prophet.
17 These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the [o]black darkness has been reserved. 18 For, while speaking out arrogant words of no value they entice by fleshly desires, by indecent behavior, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what anyone is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 [p]It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

These scoffers and mockers are like false prophets, sowing false teachings. Because of them, the truth will be maligned, exploiting the true believers with false words, springs without water, speaking out arrogant words of no value, using abusive speech where they have no knowledge. It is better that they had not known the way of righteousness. These people are like the grumbling generation in the desert that never saw the Promised Land. That negativity is the backdrop to 2 Peter 3. 


This does not cut it: "every eye will see him," <<<<<<<<<<DID EVERY EYE SEE HIM RETURN?  NO!

See Him in what way? 

Arrive the same way as he went HERE>>>Acts 1:11
Explained perfectly well in the three links in Post 118 for the reader's information. 

And according to millions of Christians, he hasn't returned yet. Are they stupid to believe he will soon?
Misinformed. The word is there to inform them.

Jesus said He would return in that generation. 

And he didn't according to 2Peter 3:4
You ignore the context, as I have pointed out many times. 

How is the Bible inconsistent when properly understood? The problem is that you think you have correctly interpreted it when you have not. 
 I haven't interpreted it in anyway at all. I have simply repeated what the scripture actually states, not what I want it to state., unlike YOU!
Yes, you have. You have used a 21st-century understanding. What did it mean to the 1st-century audience of address?


You pay no attention to the meanings found in Scripture, just make it up, 

Oh ffs stop it!!!  YOU are the one that has made up the story of Jesus crucified DEAD  and lying stinking in a grave for three days, then rising ALIVE from his grave and  going up into the clouds of heaven  to then descend back to earth and his  return to already have happened in AD 66_70, NOT ME!


When you examine prophecy, everything He said did happen in His Olivet Discourse happened. 

 STOP LYING!!!!  These were the OT prophecies:
I'm not lying. Stop insinuating that I am a liar. The Olivet Discourse covers many OT prophecies, but the focus of it is what will happen in their generation. Jesus makes numerous prophecies concerning them and that generation. Any yet unfulfilled prophecy, both OT and NT, was to be fulfilled by AD 70. 

Isaiah 43:5-6.       Gathering all the diaspora (scattered)Jews from around the globe back to Jerusalem.  FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.
The true believers were citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem. Thus they were gathered there. 

Zechariah 14:9   The god of the Hebrews will be followed universally uniting humanity as one. FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.
It did not fail. 

for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Another word for the kingdom of God is the kingdom of heaven, the heavenly country.

Isaiah 2:4             Usher in a world peace, ending all suffering oppression and illnesses.   FAIL!   And failed twice if you are to be believed.
Revelation 21:1-4 (NASB)
The New Heaven and Earth
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among the people, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His [a]people, and God Himself will be among them[b], 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

Revelation 22:14-16 (NASB)
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you of these things [a]for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

The New Heaven and New Earth are with God. And we as Christians are blessed here on Earth, secured in the knowledge of the victory of the Lord Jesus Christ that will translate our earthly bodies to heavenly ones when they physically die. Yet, our faith in Jesus has given each Christian eternal life with God in heaven. 

Ezekiel 37:26-28  Build a third temple.   FAIL!  And failed twice if you are to be believed.

That temple and priesthood were being built during the 1st-century. 

Ephesians 2:19-22 (NASB)
19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the [a]saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [b]temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Our temple is with God. 



What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.

I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 
What do you want me to take away from your link and discuss? I am not going to squelch every fire you start. Be specific.


He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”  <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it? 
You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.

 No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11
Bare assertions. 

No they are biblical facts.
Your interpretation is not the biblical fat. 

I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say  AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!
How was Jesus to return...IN THE FATHER'S GLORY.  How did the Father come in glory, for the umpteenth time? 

So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.
I can't prove anything to someone who will not be convinced. For others who take this seriously, please investigate further. Perhaps they will understand the truth of the matter of which the Preterist speaks. The Second Coming was in AD 70. 

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@PGA2.0
I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say  AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!
How was Jesus to return...IN THE FATHER'S GLORY.  How did the Father come in glory, for the umpteenth time? 

Define glory


You ignore the context, as I have pointed out many times.

Its always the other side that doesn't get the "context" isn't it? 




He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”  <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it? 
You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.

 No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11
Bare assertions. 

No they are biblical facts.
Your interpretation is not the biblical fat. 

I haven't "interpreted" anything.. I have clearly repeated what it is the scripture themselves actually say. I haven't added my own opinion of what is being conveyed and I have certainly not taken anything away. 

"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!





What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.

I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 
What do you want me to take away from your link and discuss? I am not going to squelch every fire you start. Be specific.
I have been specific. You just don't agree with them. 
I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 



So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.
I can't prove anything to someone who will not be convinced. For others who take this seriously, please investigate further. Perhaps they will understand the truth of the matter of which the Preterist speaks. The Second Coming was in AD 70. 

 How many times!?   I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem. What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 

You need first of all to prove that  a dead and rotting stinking 3 day old corpse was returned to life. <<<<<<<<<<<THAT should be your starting point if you want to convince me of anything.

Off you go.




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I don't care if you don't believe them. I am simply pointing out to you what it is that the scriptures actually DO SAY and not what I want them to say  AND CERTAINLY NOT WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY!
How was Jesus to return...IN THE FATHER'S GLORY.  How did the Father come in glory, for the umpteenth time? 

Define glory
First, tell me how the Father is described as coming in His glory in the OT. 

You ignore the context, as I have pointed out many times.

Its always the other side that doesn't get the "context" isn't it?
You isolate verses and ignore the rest of the context, as I have shown many times now. 



He will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”  <<<<<<<<<<hasn't happened has it? 
You're dead mistaken. One verse does not make doctrine.

 No that will be the bible that is mistaken, then you see, those are not my words, they are words taken directly from your own unreliable scriptures.HERE>>>Acts 1:11
Bare assertions. 

No they are biblical facts.
Your interpretation is not the biblical fact. 

I haven't "interpreted" anything.. I have clearly repeated what it is the scripture themselves actually say. I haven't added my own opinion of what is being conveyed and I have certainly not taken anything away. 

"every eye will see him," 

Yes, you have. 

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

What does it mean to come with or on the clouds? Does the Bible explain such language further? Yes, it does. Clouds speak of the glory of God and the judgment of God. 

Who pierced Him? It was attributed to the nation of Israel, per Zechariah 12:10. It says "tribes of the earth." What does that mean? Does it mean literally every tribe on earth, or is it a specific relationship to the twelve tribes of the land of Israel? Can earth mean land? Obviously, when reading Zechariah 12, it means the tribes of the land of Israel. Revelation 1:7 alludes to two Scriptures, Daniel 7:13-14 and Zechariah 12:10. The nation of Israel handed over their Messiah to be pierced and put to death. Jesus told them that the blood of all their prophets and wise men who be required of this generation because they had heaped up the cup of God's wrath to the fullest extent when they crucified His Son. 

and you say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’

so that upon you will fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Now when Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; you yourselves shall see.”

And all the people replied, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!”

They condemned themselves. Even so, Jesus gave them a 40 year period of grace. 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
The evidence is strong to believe the NT writings are all complete before AD 70. That is most reasonable to believe, and you can't reasonably show otherwise. Peter and Paul are martyred under Nero's reign. There is no reference to the most important event in the history of Israel in the NT as already happening. Their whole system of worship, everything their economy revolved around, was destroyed in AD 70. 

Kenneth Gentry, Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation and John A.T. Robinson, Redating the NT document the evidence nicely. If I was a betting man I would bet you have never read either book. 

What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
What specific point in this video do you want me to respond to? 



What is your point here? Three signs? What do you want to discuss about them? Please be more specific.

I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 
What do you want me to take away from your link and discuss? I am not going to squelch every fire you start. Be specific.
I have been specific. You just don't agree with them. 
I have said that just like YOU keep reposting biblical verse after biblical verse that you believe proves Jesus has already returned, they too contain  BIBLE passages and verses that predict Jesus' imminent return that hasn't happened yet. YOU can take what you like from them, I don't care. 
Mention the one you think best refutes His coming in AD 70. 


So. Stop crying and stamping your feet . You haven't proven anything at all and never can.
I can't prove anything to someone who will not be convinced. For others who take this seriously, please investigate further. Perhaps they will understand the truth of the matter of which the Preterist speaks. The Second Coming was in AD 70. 

 How many times!?   I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem. What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 
Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory. You deny perhaps hundreds of NT passages that tell us that Jesus died. Instead, you fantasize about Him remaining alive based on what? 

You are a closed book. Your mind is closed to the evidence. Your confirmation bias and anger stop you from understanding or considering the opposite. 

You need first of all to prove that  a dead and rotting stinking 3 day old corpse was returned to life. <<<<<<<<<<<THAT should be your starting point if you want to convince me of anything.

I won't convince you of anything. All I can do is show others the unreasonableness of what you believe. 

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 What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 

Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.

 So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not  surprised? 

"every eye will see him return," Revelation 1:7

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
What about any one of the billion Mary's that hung around with him, did any one of them mention his return? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
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@Stephen

 What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 

Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.

 So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not  surprised? 
Another tactic used to subconsciously implant in others that I don't have evidence. I have been presenting you with evidence all along. So stop the bull. The evidence for Preterism is overwhelming compared to any futurist view. The evidence shows that He did come in glory in AD 70, and the Jews understood His coming. 

If you want to be so doggone literal instead of recognizing how the 1st-century would understand the references, you have a big problem with your theology, which was pointed out in the first link I gave you in Post 118.

Jesus was to return in the same way or manner they saw Him go into heaven, in the glory of the Father, the Shekinah cloud glory. 
How would they know He had returned? When the judgment took place, they would understand (see) that He was seated at the Father's right hand, making His enemies His footstool, as prophecies. If you want to get into His return, they are various Scriptures that speak of that return, and you can't say definitely they are a physical bodily manifestation because of all the figurative language in them. 

Dan Darey makes the point in the first part, as I noted in Post 118, by listing the Scriptures below.

Matthew 16:27
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels…”

1 Thessalonians 4:16
“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God…”

2 Thessalonians 1:7
“…when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire”

Revelation 1:7
“Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him….”

Revelation 19
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True…”

Is He coming on a white horse? Did the disciples see Him ascend on a white horse? 
Is He coming in a flaming fire? Did His disciples see Him ascend in a flaming fire? 
Did He ascend with the voice of an archangel and trumpets blowing? 

No, these verses speak of His glory and judgment if you understood the OT references of such things as a flaming fire.

"every eye will see him return," Revelation 1:7

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
Why would you ask such a question? Peter, Paul, and James were martyred before AD 70, and every NT book was a warning of soon-coming judgment, not the aftermath other than a description of the heavenly country and kingdom. Peter and Paul were put to death between 64-68 AD, per church tradition, so none of their epistles can be written after that time. Revelation ends with these words, 

Revelation 22:17-21
"17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires, take the water of life without cost.
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and [
j]from the holy city, which are written in this book.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with [
k]all. Amen."

Revelation is written about a mainly Jewish judgment for it is another take on the Olivet Discourse.

Nothing else needs to be added to the Bible. It has everything necessary for salvation. 

What about any one of the billion Mary's that hung around with him, did any one of them mention his return? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70?
Whether they mentioned anything or not, these canonized accounts are the ones that God preserved for our benefit and salvation; no others were needed. 

Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?
What makes you think any were in Jerusalem at that time? They were warned to flee before Jerusalem was destroyed.

What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
It was the apostles who were anointed with the Holy Spirit to communicate the gospel. God preserved what writings He needed so that we could know of this great salvation.
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@PGA2.0

 How many times!?   I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem.
 What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 

Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.

 So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not  surprised? 
Another tactic used to subconsciously implant in others that I don't have evidence.

My, you are getting almost paranoid. Are you saying I am leading "the people astray" . Are you saying that those reading here do not have their own minds?  And are you saying that  the people that believe Jesus' return is imminent any day now, stupid and confused?  You really are holier than thou , aren't you.


"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!

Peter, Paul, and James were martyred before AD 70

 So they didn't live to see the second coming as Jesus promised they would , then.  And what about the other 69 ? Luke 10:1-23  Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two.

 In your own time sunshine.

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@Stephen

 How many times!?   I too agree that Jesus was still around in AD 70. I believe there was every chance that he was present at the siege of Jerusalem.
 What I categorically WON'T be convinced of is that his dead, stinking and rotting corpse came back to life,  shared a meal, went up into the clouds, came back down and made himself know that -Revelation 1:7
"every eye will see him,"  present at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 - 70. 
And you have proven nothing at all as much as you believe you have. 

Exactly, you won't believe He rose from the dead and was taken into heaven in a cloud of glory.

 So you don't have any evidence then. Well why am I not  surprised? 
Another tactic used to subconsciously implant in others that I don't have evidence.

My, you are getting almost paranoid. Are you saying I am leading "the people astray" . Are you saying that those reading here do not have their own minds?  And are you saying that  the people that believe Jesus' return is imminent any day now, stupid and confused?  You really are holier than thou , aren't you.
I'm saying I see you using propaganda techniques of repetition and changing the narrative by misrepresenting the written narrative. You take verses out of context to influence others into thinking you are right when you haven't exegeted the passages. For instance, 2 Peter speaks of scoffers, false teachers, and false prophets who deny Jesus' coming is near ("Where is His coming?") because they have been waiting a long time and do not see God as keeping His promises. They forget that Jesus gave them a generation to repent, and the time is getting close to expiring. You think because Peter identifies scoffers and mockers that this proves Jesus did not return as promised, but you fail to understand the nature of the coming. Peter, like every NT author, prophesied that the coming was near. Thus, like you, these scoffers influence others by a false narrative that Peter addresses.

As I said before, every NT author speaks of the last days. Last days of what? I asked you this before, but you failed to respond. I will tell the reader what that means. It is the last days of the Old Covenant when the two covenants are operating side by side. There is a transition taking place that will be complete when God's judgment of these OT people is complete. That fact can be easily established by the numerous passages that speak of such things. Daniel was told, "24 “Seventy [u]weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to [v]finish the wrongdoing, to [w]make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and [x]prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

All those prophetic words looked forward to the Lord Jesus Christ and the end of the Old Covenant age. Daniel is told to seal up the prophetic message until the time of the end of that age. 

Daniel 12
12 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [a]contempt. 3 And [b]those who have insight will shine like the glow of the [c]expanse of heaven, and those who [d]lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4 But as for you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal up the book until the end of time; many will roam about, and knowledge will increase.”

The end of the time of the OT, a time for Daniel's people. Who are Daniel's people?  

6 And someone said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, “How long will it be until the end of these wonders?” 7 And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, [e]as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a [f]time, [g]times, and half a [h]time; and as soon as [i]they finish smashing the [j]power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.

The time will be complete once the power of the Holy people is shattered. When Peter writes that time is near, as I will show you shortly. That prophecy by Daniel is completed in AD 70. In AD 70, there is no more temple, no more priesthood, no more atonement for sins by the blood sacrifice required in the Law of Moses, no more feast days. The OT economy no longer exists after that time. 

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words will be kept secret and sealed up until the end time. 10 Many will be purged, [l]cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but [m]those who have insight will understand. 11 And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination [n]of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who is patient and attains to the 1,335 days! 13 But as for you, go your way to the [o]end; then you will rest and [p]rise for your allotted portion at the end of the [q]age.

Daniel is told these prophecies are not for his time but the time of the end. End of what? Again, the end of the OT system of worship. God was going to replace that system with a better way.  Notice that the wicked will keep acting wickedly, heaping judgment upon themselves, the very thing that Peter speaks about in 2 Peter 2:1-3. Daniel is told to go his way until the resurrection at the end of the age. 

You should be asking, "end of what age?" 

In his first letter, Peter emphasizes judgment is near.

1 Peter 1:5 (NASB)
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Last time of what? The last times of the Old Covenant age.

1 Peter 4:5 (NASB)
5 but they will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Judgment was NEAR.

1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)
7 The end of all things [a]is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of [b]prayer.

The end of all things OT is near. 

1 Peter 4:17 (NASB)
17 For it is time for judgment to begin [a]with the household of God; and if it begins [b]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Peter says it IS TIME and warns of the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel. So that is the setting of Peter's second letter too. Because the time of His coming is longer than THEY anticipated, some mockers are bringing into question whether He will come. Peter sets the record straight by reminding them of what he wrote in his first letter and telling the FAITHFUL that God is not slow in keeping His promises but wants none of the elect to perish. In other words, the generational timeframe is not quite up. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus said to His disciples that they would know when the judgment is right at the door by the signs of the times. 

so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

Jesus said they would not know when He was speaking know the hour, no man would, (for you do not know which day your Lord is coming...for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He willbut when the Spirit of truth comes He would bring to their minds all truth. Jesus compares the scoffing at that time to the scoffing at Noah's time, where they mocked Noah just before judgment. 

36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For [ab]the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [ac]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

"Just like the days of Noah." What were those days like? You have to read about them to find out. Peter said,

who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

About that hour, 1 John 2:18 he tells the reader the hour is upon them. 

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

They know it is the last hour. The countdown to judgment had just about arrived. 



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@Stephen
Continued,

Paul could say to the Thessalonians, 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 (NASB)
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and [a]drove us out. [b]They are not pleasing to God, [c]but hostile to all people, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always [d]reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them [e]fully.

Paul and Jude also said there would be mockers in the last days. Last days of what? Again, the last days of the Old Covenant. 

1 Timothy 4 (NASB)
Abandonment of Faith
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

that they were saying to you, “In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.”

‘Look, you scoffers, and be astonished, and perish; For I am accomplishing a work in your days, A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”

And considering all these things, Peter's second letter begins with a reminder of his first letter and the prophets' words. 

Beloved, this is now the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of a reminder, 2 to remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

Well, what of the reminder about the prophets? On the day of Pentecost, Peter, in his first sermon, quoted Joel the prophet.

Acts 2:16 but this is what has been spoken through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour out My Spirit on all [p]mankind;
And your sons and your daughters will prophesy,
And your young men will see visions,
And your old men will [q]have dreams;
18 And even on My male and female [r]servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
And they will prophesy.
19 And I will [s]display wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, fire, and [t]vapor of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord comes.
21 And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a Man [u]attested to you by God with [v]miracles and wonders and [w]signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of [x]godless men and put Him to death. 24 [y]But God raised Him from the dead, putting an end to the [z]agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held [aa]in its power. 25 For David says of Him,
‘I saw the Lord continually before me,
Because He is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue was overjoyed;
Moreover my flesh also will live in hope;
27 For You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
Nor will You [ab]allow Your [ac]Holy One to [ad]undergo decay.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of gladness with Your presence.’

So much for your theology about Jesus experiencing decay. 

And Peter applies the prophecy of Joel to that generation. He says in the last days and applies them to the people present. He also speaks of judgment in apocalyptic language. Then in Peter's second sermon, he says,

Acts 3:12 But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His [d]servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14 But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 but put to death the [e]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, [f]a fact to which we are witnesses. 16 And on the basis of faith in His name, it is [g]the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.
17 “And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers also did. 18 But the things which God previously announced by the mouths of all the prophets, that His [h]Christ would suffer, He has fulfilled in this way. 19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the [i]Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the [j]period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times. 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your countrymen; to Him you shall listen regarding everything He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel and his successors onward, have also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 God raised up His [k]Servant for you first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

The restoration of all things. Did you get that? What does that mean to you, Stephen? Am I going to once again have silence from your part in explaining it? Do you understand what it means? Notice that all the prophets announced THESE DAYS. 

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"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
I answered all these questions in Post 126 for those who are observant. 

Peter, Paul, and James were martyred before AD 70

 So they didn't live to see the second coming as Jesus promised they would , then. 
Again, you are misrepresenting the narrative. Jesus said some. We don't know who the some are, except we have a good indication from Scripture and the early church fathers John was among that list. We also know that the high priest would have experienced the Son of Man seated at the Father's right hand by the judgment that took place in AD 70 and the times leading up to that judgment. 

And what about the other 69 ? Luke 10:1-23  Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two.
10:1 Now after this the Lord appointed [a]seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

We are not privy to who they (the seventy-two) are. 

Concerning the twelve disciples,

Matthew 10:23 “But whenever they persecute you in [r]one city, flee to the [s]next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Jesus is telling the twelve that they will not have finished going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes in judgment and with His reward for the faithful. But Jesus also told three of the twelve these words, 

28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

There is good evidence to believe John was one of the three still alive at the Second Coming, for we know that Peter and James were killed near or at the beginning of the tribulation. That is why they too could write that the day was near. They understood the signs. They could see the signs all around them. They knew Jesus was in His kingdom. The cloud judgment had begun while Peter and Paul were alive going through the cities of Israel, as Paul said to the Thessalonians,

hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them fully.

Paul uses the present tense to signify that judgment had come upon them fully. The wrath of God was being poured out on them during the three and a half years before the fulfillment of all that was written. 

Luke 21:20-24 (NASB)
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then [a]recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside [b]the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter [c]the city; 22 because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the [d]land, and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

All that was prophesied in the OT still to be fulfilled would be fulfilled by AD 70. Everything! 

Jesus is telling His disciples that those still alive would recognize Jerusalem's destruction when Rome surrounded the city. There was a small period in which they would be able to flee before it was too late to flee.

Do you know which disciples Jesus is specifically addressing in the Olivet Discourse or are you again ignorant of that? 



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"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
I answered all these questions in Post 126 for those who are observant. 

 Would you like the question again. 


you are misrepresenting the narrative. Jesus said some.
You "replied that there were 3  dead"  so couldn't have witnessed the second coming, which again shows Jesus's promise that everyone standing and alive at the time of the promise was  complete BS. and then there is the point of "this generation NOT passing away" .






 NOW: What about any one of the Mary's? Do any of them give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD66_70

What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70?

Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!??? 




 You have not a single "eye witness" in or outside of scripture to this second coming that you insist had already taken place in AD 66-70. But choose to cherry pick verses to fit your own version from the unreliable and ambiguous scriptures  simply to suite your own narrative. You have proven nothing. 

 I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!

Here is one single example of hundreds that do not agree with YOU.  And that  do as YOU do and quote verses from scripture that they - just like YOU - believe proves their case that Jesus' return is imminent. :  Fill your boots!

Christianity.com.

"So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.” 
Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."


 They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?

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@Stephen
"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!
I answered all these questions in Post 126 for those who are observant. 

 Would you like the question again. 
Questions:
1) Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
2) What about any one of the Mary's?
3) What about Joanna and Susanna?
4) What about Salome? Does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70?
5) Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?
6) What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea?
7) Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?
8) And what about his own MOTHER!??? 


you are misrepresenting the narrative. Jesus said some.
You "replied that there were 3  dead"  so couldn't have witnessed the second coming, which again shows Jesus's promise that everyone standing and alive at the time of the promise was  complete BS. and then there is the point of "this generation NOT passing away" .
We know of three writers of the NT who were now dead, granting that the NT writer James is the bother of Jesus. Each of these, Peter, Paul, and James, we are told, died before AD 70, yet we know the early church fathers said that John lived longer, and I'm not sure of the other NT writers like Luke or Mark Jude.

To your point, Jesus promised that EVERYONE standing and alive at the promise would be alive at the Second Coming is plain wrong. You are trying to manipulate the texts yet again. Here is the verse in question:

Matthew 16:28 (NASB)
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his [a]deeds.

 NOW: What about any one of the Mary's? Do any of them give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD66_70
Show me that they were alive at this time for them to give an account (forty years after Jesus' crucifixion) and that if they did, their account was preserved. 

What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70?
Are you speaking of apocryphal writings or something they themselves wrote? 

Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???
I don't know of any credible source and no canonized account that lists them as being alive in AD 70.

 You have not a single "eye witness" in or outside of scripture to this second coming that you insist had already taken place in AD 66-70. But choose to cherry pick verses to fit your own version from the unreliable and ambiguous scriptures  simply to suite your own narrative. You have proven nothing. 
None of the Gospels or epistles were written after AD 70, so how could they record something that none of them were there to witness, having fled per the warning of the Lord. Yet every gospel and almost every epistle records the warning of a soon-coming judgment, the judgment in which Jesus would return in judgment. The Jews would witness the judgment of God in AD 70 when the Old Covenant was abolished completely and replaced solely by a better covenant. 

Hebrews 8:13  (NASB)
13 [a]When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [b]about to disappear.

In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul notes the transition taking place even while the first covenant was still in operation. 

 7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came [c]with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was [d]with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

At the time of Paul's writing, the Old Covenant was fading away, being replaced with the new and better covenant. 

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil [e]remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts; 16 but whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 But we all, with unveiled faces, looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The transformation was taking place from the old to the new. A veil prevents those of the OT from seeing the everlasting glory that is removed in Jesus Christ. 

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled [a]to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this [b]world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that [c]they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants [d]on account of Jesus.

 I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!
Imminent to whom? To those during the 1st-century. You can't show otherwise. 

Here is one single example of hundreds that do not agree with YOU.  And that  do as YOU do and quote verses from scripture that they - just like YOU - believe proves their case that Jesus' return is imminent. :  Fill your boots!

Christianity.com.

"So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.” 
Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."
Show me where the NT includes/refers to anyone two-thousand plus years as witnessing the Second Coming.

The Bible is our blueprint, not some denomination.

 They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?
They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline, just as you are doing in making that point. Many verses speak of a soon, near, quick, coming of the Lord. How does that translate to thousands of years later and as imminent? 
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@PGA2.0
Show me where the NT includes/refers to anyone two-thousand plus years as witnessing the Second Coming.

 I didn't ask for a witness some 2000 years later I am asking for a witness just some 4 decades later. As the bible says "some" will not pass away until they witness the once dead corpse of Jesus alive and coming on a cloud.  

And the second coming hasn't happen yet in our time,some 2000 years later, so I could hardly produce a witness, now could I? . But I may be able to very soon as his return is expected any day now and is imminent according to BILLIONS of Christians. 


 I am asking you where in,or outside of the New Testament does anyone claim to have witnessed  a resurrected Jesus Christ alive and well at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66_70 ? and you cannot give one single instance. Your excuse for that is that three of them were dead. What about the other 69? Were they also dead. And what about all the women in Jesus' movement that I mentioned about, were they all dead too?  Jesus said said:

  
Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

he also said:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.

But it did pass away didn't it?  And you cannot find one historical witness biblical or otherwise from the " SOME" remaining  that claims to have witnessed Jesus' return on a cloud in AD 66 - 70 , NOT A ONE!

They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline, just as you are doing in making that point. Many verses speak of a soonnearquick, coming of the Lord.

  Yes, and YOU also claim that Peter explained " SOON " and " Quick " and NEAR" " by calling "soon"  and "quick" and " near" a thousands fkn years!!!!




...........does that translate to thousands of years later and as imminent? 

It does if we are to believe Peter , doesn't it !  YOU have insisted on using this >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8"  , to explains why Jesus' didn't appear to those that confronted Peter about Jesus' no show. 

When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  

It appears to me that if we are to accept that peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return  a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.


I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!
Christianity.com.

"So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.” 
Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."


 They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?

They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline,
I see , so you understand these scriptures much better and more clearer that those millions of Christians that are expecting Jesus' arrival very soon. So are they stupid for not being able to read and understand the bible like you  claim to be able to read and understand it?

 You seem to keep missing the point that for every verse you quote that you believe "proves" Jesus has already returned, they too quote the same verses and other verses that they believe "prove" his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent.  Only one of you can be correct. 

Here is another example from another Christian organisation saying Jesus' return is imminent and using many of the verses that you also insist on.

 GET READY! JESUS IS COMMING SOON.

This one makes their belief clear ending with the words ;

"For the hope we have in Jesus soon return in Christ's name, we ask it.
Amen."


Are they stupid too? are they too not reading and understanding the bible correctly?  Are they too taking these verses "out of context"  ? Or is it that they do not understand ancient Greek?

Here's a thought, maybe Peter' s bullshite excuse was a mistranslation and when he said: >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8" - 

it was actually was meant to read " and a thousand years are like nearly two days and nearly two days is like nearly like 2,000years" ?

 I keep telling you. Your claims are nonsense and no more provable that any other christian church or organisation. 
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@Stephen
Show me where the NT includes/refers to anyone two-thousand plus years as witnessing the Second Coming.

[a] I didn't ask for a witness some 2000 years later I am asking for a witness just some 4 decades later. [b] As the bible says "some" will not pass away until they witness the [b] once dead corpse of Jesus alive and coming on a cloud.  
Once again, I will point out to the reader that Stephen did not refute one of the hundreds of verses I listed as teaching a 1st-century AD 70 return of Jesus. He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over without exegeting them. With Matthew 16:27-28, he ignores my point above completely, as well as the many proofs I offered for my interpretation as biblical. With 2 Peter 3:4, I refuted his point by including the focus of Peter's second letter, and how in his first he had stated that Jesus' coming was near. I showed how Peter is refuting the claim made by these scoffers and mockers. He says God is not slow in fulfilling His promises but does not want any of the elect to be lost, so He gives them time to come into the fold. That timeline is the same one Jesus gave before His crucifixion --> 40 years. 

[a] Then find out what the 1st-century authors meant. Again, for the umpteenth time, what does it mean when Jesus said He would come in the Father's glory. What does that phrase mean? You keep dodging answering because you are so embedded in your 21st-century mindset you can't understand what happened. 

[b] Once "dead" corpse. What are you suggesting, a live corpse? And how does one ride a cloud? Was He going to be riding a white horse on the clouds? Was His voice going to be one of an archangel, or are these just metaphors of judgment, as I have explained in detail, and you did not object once to the many passages I gave in support of such a view. 

You are doing exactly what liberals do; they keep repeating, again and again, their SAME narrative until it becomes mainstream palatable for others to go along with their crazy notions.  

[a] And the second coming hasn't happen yet in our time,some 2000 years later, so I could hardly produce a witness, now could I? [b] But I may be able to very soon as his return is expected any day now and is imminent according to BILLIONS of Christians. 
[a] It was never meant to be thought of as 2000 years later, for Jesus addressed His generation and promised they would not pass away until all the things He said would take place had taken place. 

[b] Imminent? Imminent to a 1st century people of address. Christians today are mistaken because they have fallen for Dispensationalism and other futuristic eschatologies that have influenced Stephen's own outlook. He perfectly well understands that Jesus was addressing a 1st-century people about His Second Coming. You can't escape that conclusion without bending Scripture to an eisegetical interpretation, which is what Stephen is doing. 

[a] I am asking you where in, or outside of the New Testament does anyone claim to have witnessed  a resurrected Jesus Christ alive and well at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66_70 ? and you cannot give one single instance. [b] Your excuse for that is that three of them were dead. [c] What about the other 69? Were they also dead. And what about all the women in Jesus' movement that I mentioned about, were they all dead too?  Jesus said said:

  
[d] “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
[a] I have told you repeatedly, which you ignore, no NT canonized writing was written after AD 70; therefore, how can they write about something that has not happened yet? According to early church tradition, I also told you that Peter, Paul, Jude and James are not alive after AD 70. How could they write about something they are not alive to witness? I do not know of any information from the biblical writers preserved, written after Jerusalem's fall.  

[b] That is a good reason. Do you have anything you can site from a dead person? 

[c] How were they? And how much information from that period do we still have available?

[d] Where do you find the women you identify included in this group? You assume it includes them. Look at the three different records of this passage and show me where these particular women are included. 


Matthew 16
Discipleship Is Costly
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his [y]life will lose it; but whoever loses his [z]life for My sake will find it. 26 For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but [aa]forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his [ab]deeds.
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 12:34 And He summoned the crowd together with His disciples, and said to them,...And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God when it has come with power.”

Luke 9:18 And it happened that while He was praying alone, the disciples were with Him, and He questioned them, saying, “Who do the [h]people say that I am?”
...23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow Me...26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and the holy angels. 27 But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

he also said:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
Again, who is the 'you' Jesus is speaking to? 

Matthew 24
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [b]end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them “See to it that no one [c]misleads you...6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed...
...
9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name...15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation... 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the [s]Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him...25 Behold, I have told you in advance...32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, [y]recognize that [z]He is near, right at the [aa]door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."


Can you, Stephen, identify who you is that Jesus is speaking to????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

But it did pass away didn't it?  And you cannot find one historical witness biblical or otherwise from the " SOME" remaining  that claims to have witnessed Jesus' return on a cloud in AD 66 - 70 , NOT A ONE!
Again, who is the you that Jesus is speaking to????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

We have early church tradition that John was still alive after the tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem. We also know from such tradition that Peter, Paul and James were put to death before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. The prophecies from these writers would have come true in AD 70. What was the point of those left in saying, "I told you so?"
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Still nothing of consequence to debunk what millions of Christians - other than you - believe.

Once again, I will point out to the reader that Stephen did not refute one of the hundreds of verses.

 They refute themselves simply by not including a single witness that "the lord says will witness  " his return..  I have asked you to produce witness from inside or outside of the scriptures that attest to seeing a once dead and rotting corpse, but now alive and well Jesus coming on a cloud in AD 66 - 70. YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO SO! not a single one.  Not one single follower from this little gang:

"every eye will see him," 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?. What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE.


yet also according to YOU and Peter  "some" of the people witnessing the promise would live a "thousand years" and would witness the return.  You cant have it both ways , and I won't let you have it both ways.

When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  

It appears to me that if we are to accept that Peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return  a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.


He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over 


  Do I? 
What I actaully have been doing is simply quoting from these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures what they themselves have to say on the matter of Jesus' return. I haven't had to "assert " anything. I haven't interpreted anything either.  but YOU on the other hand,  by your own admission has been interpreting everything for us. This is YOU above saying this , is it not ? >>>>  "I offered for my interpretation as biblical".



That will be the verses where GOD HIMSELF! promised that some of these alive at the time of his promise will witness his return. This  didn't and hasn't happened. AS THE BIBLE clearly points out. hence the confrontation Peter has with descendants of those that heard the promise all dead and gone. LOOOOOOOOK! >>>2Pe 3:4 -  “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
It was always going to be the case of apologists such as Peter  making excuses to the gullible, ignorant and superstitious of  time that would swallow his feeble excuses - hook line and sinker.  Peter was a fisherman after all  and he cast out this little piece of bullshit on his line for them to bite and swallow >>>

You are forgetting brothers that “With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”.2 Peter 3:8:


 And I suppose they all, said   "ok , I see",  and all went about their merry way?  And without mentioning the fact that if this indeed be the case then Jesus wasn't dead for only  three days but for 3,000FKN YEARS!!!!!!


as well as the many proofs I offered for my interpretation as biblical.

You offered no "proof"  other than cherry picked verses that ONLY YOU believe proves Jesus has already returned in first century AD and  your interpretation of anything biblical counts for absolutely ZERO.

While YOU are telling the world that Jesus has already returned there are  MILLIONS upon millions of Christians that believe his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Are they fools and are they stupid? 


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@Stephen

They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline, just as you are doing in making that point. Many verses speak of a soonnearquick, coming of the Lord.

  Yes, and YOU also claim that Peter explained " SOON " and " Quick " and NEAR" " by calling "soon"  and "quick" and " near" a thousands fkn years!!!!
No, Peter did not. He said a day is LIKE a thousand years and a thousand years like a day, denoting the timelessness of God and that God is not slow in keeping His promises but is waiting so that none of the elect will perish. You, as usual cannot comprehend this because of your confirmation bias and snipping of contexts. Your ears are closed to hearing what I am saying. You just keep repeating your same old stale mantra. 

...........does that translate to thousands of years later and as imminent? 

It does if we are to believe Peter , doesn't it ! 
No, if you were to believe Peter you would understand that he is explaining that God is keeping His promise to the elect, not wanting any of them to perish. That is why Peter uses the thousand year reference to show that God will act when He is ready and when the fulfillment of time is past. And the rest of Scripture backs up those thoughts. Jesus said that generation would not pass away until everything was fulfilled, and Hebrews identifies a generation as 40 years. The NT mirrors the OT in a spiritual sense. The OT generation perished in the wilderness and never entered the Promised Land after 40 years. The same danger was present to the unbeliever in the NT during this generation. That is made simplistically plain to the reader who is not biased to hearing Scripture speaking to the conscience. 

YOU have insisted on using this >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8"  , to explains why Jesus' didn't appear to those that confronted Peter about Jesus' no show.
I have used it to show two things, 1) that God does things in His time and is not slow in fulfilling His promises but fulfills them when He said He would, knowing that all the elect have not come to faith yet, and 2) you neglect to provide the whole of the context as you always do. Here it is, 

2 Peter 3:3-17 (NASB)
The Coming Day of the Lord
3 Know this first of all, that
[1]  in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and [2] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers [a]fell asleep, [3] all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [b]when [4] they maintain this, [5] it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which [6] the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But [7] by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, [8] kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.
8 But
[9] do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that [10] with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 [11] The Lord is not slow about His promise, [12] as some count slowness, but [13] is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
A New Heaven and Earth
10
[14] But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which [15]  the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and [c]its works will be [d]discovered.
11
[16] Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 [17] looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which [18] the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 [19] But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14
[20] Therefore, beloved, [21] since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by Him, at peace, 15 and [22] regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which [23] there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, [24] knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of [e]unscrupulous people and [25] lose your own [f]firm commitment,

[1] Know this, in the last days of which they were in.
[2] Mockers and scoffers would be unbelieving and cast doubt, saying, "Where is His coming?" 
[3] These mockers see all things continuing as they were.
[4] These mocker maintain this mockery and doubt. 
[5] It escapes their notice that God destroyed the earth once because of unbelief and sin. 
[6] God destroyed the world at that time by a Flood.
[7] By God's word the current system of things is reserved for the judgment of fire - fire representing the burning away of the impure. 
[8] This judgment will be on these ungodly moickers and unbelievers. 
[9] But take note, those who believe!
[10] Time is insignificant to God.
[11] God is not slow in keeping His promises.
[12] As these mockers count slowness.
[13] Because why? Because He is patient to you who believe and to those who will believe, not wanting any of the elect to perish but to repent.
[14] But know this, the DAY of the Lord will come like a thief, as Jesus made clear. Those unprepared would perish with judgment. They were forewarned.
[15] The heavens and earth these Jews knew, what their world revolved around, would be destroyed. 
[16] Note: Since they will be destroyed, the believe ought to be holy. 
[17] Look for and hasten the Day of the Lord, believer! 
[18] The heavens will be destroyed by burning - judgment. 
[19] According to His PROMISES, the new system of God's grace through the New Covenant, the new heavens and earth in which righteousness dwells (heavenly country) will be in place. 
[20] Therefore looks back to what was said before to form the conclusion which is coming by such word.
[21] The believer is looking for these things and has not been swayed by these mockers.
[22] Regard God's patience as salvation for the elect, even those who have not yet repented but will before judgment comes.
[23] The unbelieving mockers distort the truth as they do the rest of Scripture to their own destruction. 
[24] You believers know this before hand because God has made it known to you.
[25] So don't lose your commitment by believing these mockers. 

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@Stephen

They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline, just as you are doing in making that point. Many verses speak of a soonnearquick, coming of the Lord.

  Yes, and YOU also claim that Peter explained " SOON " and " Quick " and NEAR" " by calling "soon"  and "quick" and " near" a thousands fkn years!!!!
Already explained to the reader and you, Stephen, and justified several times. You keep denying a perfectly logical and Scriptural explanation. That is your bias kicking in and I believe it is obvious to many who read this thread.  You are just stubborn in not wanting to concede your error. It is a matter of pride, IMO. 

It never appears to occur to you that all these prophecies have been fulfilled by or In AD 70, and therefore you need to consider that your understanding of His coming is different than what the Bible teaches. That you cannot concede. To do so would be to admit you are wrong. Your pride keeps you from that, IMO. 

...........does that translate to thousands of years later and as imminent? 

It does if we are to believe Peter , doesn't it !  YOU have insisted on using this >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8"  , to explains why Jesus' didn't appear to those that confronted Peter about Jesus' no show. 

When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  

It appears to me that if we are to accept that peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return  a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.
Where does it say a day IS a thousand years and a thousand years a day (i.e., a literal translation of the verse)? You are neglecting a rule of grammar to make a point. 'As' and 'like' are similes. Similes are figurative language.

"A figure of speech is a word or phrase that is used in a non-literal way to create an effect. This effect may be rhetorical as in the deliberate arrangement of words to achieve something poetic, or imagery as in the use of language to suggest a visual picture or make an idea more vivid. Overall, figures of speech function as literary devices because of their expressive use of language. Words are used in other ways than their literal meanings or typical manner of application."

You, Stephen, fail to recognize the type of language you are dealing with in such a passage. 

Simile:
"A simile is a figure of speech in which two essentially dissimilar objects or concepts are expressly compared with one another through the use of “like” or “as.” Simile is used as a literary device to assert similarity with the help of like or as, which are language constructs that establish equivalency. A proper simile creates an explicit comparison between two things that are different enough from each other such that their comparability appears unlikely.

For example, the statement “this poem is like a punch in the gut” features a simile. The poem is being explicitly compared to a “punch in the gut” with the word “like.” 

***
 
So play dumb. I know you understand the difference. 

A day is not a thousand years, nor is a thousand years a day. Peter is showing the insignificance of both a day and a thousand years to an eternal God. The purpose of the passage is to show that God is not slow in keeping His promises. The fullness of time of Israel's sins had not expired yet, by the time was near the expiration. Peter says THAT DAY (the Day of the Lord) would come like a thief. A thief steals when others are usually unaware of them stealing. Peter tells the believers that they are to look, keep watch, for the day, the day, that day of judgment, the Day of God, the day of wrath, is near, and it should not surprise them. Thus, these mockers are jumping ahead of the foreordained time and causing division among true believers by saying [1] the day had already come or in this case, where is the coming of such a day? Thus, Peter is telling them and the believers that judgment awaits such people, just like it did during the times of Noah when God destroyed the world in a particular way. Peter tells the audience that a different kind of judgment awaits unbelievers and sinners this time. 

[1] 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the [a]coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a [c]message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the [d]apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 

Again, another false report, this time stating that the day had already come. 

Peter is referring to the day of the Lord in the passage. 

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers [a]fell asleep, all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [b]when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
A New Heaven and Earth
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and [
c]its works will be [d]discovered.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by Him, at peace,...
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of [e]unscrupulous people and lose your own [f]firm commitment,

You appear not to know what the Day of the Lord is. Do you understand that, or must I explain this too? Do you know of the number of places in the NT that speak of that day, or even the OT passages? 

Jesus warned of these times that Peter and his audience is living:

And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Stephen, what are "those days?" 

The Glorious Return ] “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Those days? Which days, Stephen? 

“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

That day? What day, Stephen? Any bets anyone that I get no reply? 

1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 (NASB)
2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord is coming just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction [a]will come upon them like labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness, so that the day would overtake you [b]like a thief;
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@Stephen

I have told you. There are as many biblical verses that Christians say prove Jesus return hasn't happened yet but will happen soon and is imminent!
Christianity.com.

"So, the question, “Is Jesus coming back soon?” is a resounding yes, and He will return without unnecessary delay. Acts 1:7 confirms the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 when it says,
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.” 
Jesus said this after the disciples asked Him if He was going to restore Israel. The point by Luke in Acts 1 and Jesus in Matthew 24 is that no one knows when He will return, but that He will return."


 They seem to trump everything you believe and have claimed . Are they stupid?

They ignore the primary audience of Scripture and the timeline,
I see , so you understand these scriptures much better and more clearer that those millions of Christians that are expecting Jesus' arrival very soon. So are they stupid for not being able to read and understand the bible like you  claim to be able to read and understand it?
Yes, I do. I do not ignore the primary audience of the address, and I find out the Author's meaning, not some wooden interpretation that takes a figure of speech literally. I do not ignore the timeline and then try to fit it into a foreign period of time that has no significance to these 1st-century people. I understand the passage as it relates to them. Millions of Christians work from a timeline and primary audience foreign to Scripture. 

 You seem to keep missing the point that for every verse you quote that you believe "proves" Jesus has already returned, they too quote the same verses and other verses that they believe "prove" his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent.  Only one of you can be correct. 
No, you miss the point because you want to. You are trying to justify something that you cannot justify. You work contrary to the Word of God.

Here is another example from another Christian organisation saying Jesus' return is imminent and using many of the verses that you also insist on.

 GET READY! JESUS IS COMMING SOON.

This one makes their belief clear ending with the words ;

"For the hope we have in Jesus soon return in Christ's name, we ask it.
Amen."

Big bloody deal. A Christian denomination is not our blueprint. God's word is. Anything contrary to that is wrong.

Are they stupid too? are they too not reading and understanding the bible correctly?  Are they too taking these verses "out of context"  ? Or is it that they do not understand ancient Greek?
They are misled by indoctrination into a way of thinking that is contrary to Scripture, just like you are. 

Here's a thought, maybe Peter' s bullshite excuse was a mistranslation and when he said: >>>"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"2 Peter 3:8" - 

it was actually was meant to read " and a thousand years are like nearly two days and nearly two days is like nearly like 2,000years" ?
You can't be that naive not to know the difference between figurative and literal language, can you????

I would be interested to know if anybody else reading this fails to understand that figurative language is employed? If so, I suggest you learn the difference.

 I keep telling you. Your claims are nonsense and no more provable that any other christian church or organisation. 
No, your claims are nonsense, and an organization nor denomination is my standard. God's word is my standard. 


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@Stephen
Still nothing of consequence to debunk what millions of Christians - other than you - believe.
You are obstinate. I can only explain so many times before this gets obdurate/non-responsive to my arguments.

Once again, I will point out to the reader that Stephen did not refute one of the hundreds of verses.

 They refute themselves simply by not including a single witness that "the lord says will witness  " his return.. 
Refute themselves by not including a single witness? This is presumptive wishful thinking on your part. First, we do not know which of the disciples were alive after AD 70, although there is good reason to believe John was one of them. Second, we do not know if anything written by them was destroyed between then and now or still uncovered. Third, we do not know if the Lord wanted anything kept that His Spirit did not inspire. Fourth, Jesus told them to flee Jerusalem before its destruction. 

I have asked you to produce witness from inside or outside of the scriptures that attest to seeing a once dead and rotting corpse, but now alive and well Jesus coming on a cloud in AD 66 - 70.
I have produced first-hand witnesses of the Lord Jesus resurrected, who said what would happen, and you mistook what would happen by your wooden literalism (and liberalism) and not understanding what coming in His Father's glory meant. NOT ONCE have you shown anyone here that you understand how the Father came in the OT in His glory, and you have ignored every verse I gave you that shows how that was - not a physical bodily coming. 

YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO SO! not a single one. 
I have shown briefly, at times (and I have the posts to prove it), that the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse applied to Israel, and in some cases, the disciples themselves. I could go into more detail showing how every one of the prophecies of Matthew 24 has been fulfilled. I could also show you John's account of the Olivet Discourse (Revelation) is all fulfilled as well. If everything Jesus said would come true, then your interpretation of His coming is plain WRONG. Being wrong is something you cannot accept. I understand that. 

Not one single follower from this little gang:

"every eye will see him," 
See Him in what way? The eyes of their understanding? Will they see the SIGNS of His coming and believe that what He said was true? 

Matthew 24:3 (NASB)
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [a]end of the age?”

For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

The sign will appear in the sky/clouds. What is a sign?

sign

  • n.
    Something that suggests the presence or existence of a fact, condition, or quality.
  • n.
    An act or gesture conveys an idea, a desire, information, or a command: synonymgesture.

It suggests the presence or existence of a fact used to convey information or an idea. 

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

You have to understand how the days of Noah were. 

and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Judgment!

For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Coming at an hour that they do not know. 

Do any of his disciples claim to have seen him at the siege in Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?.
We do not know which disciples lived to see His coming, but everything God needed to disclose to them what already expressed in Scripture. Remember, Revelation is John's account of the Olivet Discourse, as what does John say? 

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

No further revelation is necessary. God has disclosed everything necessary, all the proof, for their and our salvation. If you don't trust God, then so be it. It will remain to see what happens for you. 

What about any one of the Mary's? What about Joanna,and Susanna? what about Salome, does she give an account of Jesus being present at the siege in Jerusalem AD 66-70? Do any of them make any mention of seeing their lord at the siege in AD 66  70?
I already explained to you, and you are not comprehending because of your bias; Jesus told all Christians to flee from Jerusalem when they saw the signs that His coming was near. Whether any of those were alive at His Second Coming, 40 years later, is another question. His mother would have been an old lady if she was still alive, like many of the rest of them that you mention. 

What about his "secret "disciples Joseph of Arimathea? Or Nicodemus, do they make mention of seeing him at the siege of Jerusalem in AD 66 -70?  And what about his own MOTHER!???   ANSWER: NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE.
See my comments just above yours. 


yet also according to YOU and Peter  "some" of the people witnessing the promise would live a "thousand years" and would witness the return.  You cant have it both ways , and I won't let you have it both ways.
A thousand years? Nowhere can you show that to be the case from Peter's writing. You are trying to force your point, as always. 

When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  
Jesus restored Peter so that He could fulfill the role that he was appointed for, the apostle to the Jews.

He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was hurt because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.

Just as Simon Peter denied Jesus, so Jesus confirms and restores Peter three times. This all continually shows how much you make up to bend Scripture to your thoughts (eisegesis). You are not being honest with Scripture but continually try to manipulate it. 

Galatians 2:8 (NASB)
8 (for He who was at work for Peter in his apostleship [a]to the circumcised was at work for me also to the Gentiles),

[ A Living Hope and a Sure Salvation ] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

It appears to me that if we are to accept that Peter is correct in his thousand years excuse then that alone blows your Jesus ' return  a few decades later, clean out of the water, doesn't it.
Again, show me where Peter is telling the believers to wait one thousand years. You can't because you twist Scripture as in every one of your threads, usually by collapsing the context, your most common practice. 

He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over 


  Do I? 
What I actaully have been doing is simply quoting from these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures what they themselves have to say on the matter of Jesus' return. I haven't had to "assert " anything. I haven't interpreted anything either.  but YOU on the other hand,  by your own admission has been interpreting everything for us. This is YOU above saying this , is it not ? >>>>  "I offered for my interpretation as biblical".
That, Stephen, is a propaganda technique. What you do is charge someone else with what you are guilty of, turning the tables to make it seem otherwise. You assert all the time. You assert that it is the believers, not God who a thousand years are as/LIKE a day. 

That will be the verses where GOD HIMSELF! promised that some of these alive at the time of his promise will witness his return. This  didn't and hasn't happened. AS THE BIBLE clearly points out. hence the confrontation Peter has with descendants of those that heard the promise all dead and gone. LOOOOOOOOK! >>>2Pe 3:4 -  “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Once again, answered by Peter in the greater context. You ignore that because it goes against your constructed narrative. You don't examine the textual narrative but build your own. 

It was always going to be the case of apologists such as Peter  making excuses to the gullible, ignorant and superstitious of  time that would swallow his feeble excuses - hook line and sinker.  Peter was a fisherman after all  and he cast out this little piece of bullshit on his line for them to bite and swallow >>>

You are forgetting brothers that “With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”.2 Peter 3:8:
WITH THE LORD, a day is LIKE a thousand years. Does that mean a day IS a thousand years? Are you telling us a day is a thousand years?

 And I suppose they all, said   "ok , I see",  and all went about their merry way?  And without mentioning the fact that if this indeed be the case then Jesus wasn't dead for only  three days but for 3,000FKN YEARS!!!!!!
How do you figure that? 

as well as the many proofs I offered for my interpretation as biblical.

You offered no "proof"  other than cherry picked verses that ONLY YOU believe proves Jesus has already returned in first century AD and  your interpretation of anything biblical counts for absolutely ZERO.
No, that is what you are doing - cherry-picking. I have offered numerous different arguments and am willing to offer a whole lot more. 

While YOU are telling the world that Jesus has already returned there are  MILLIONS upon millions of Christians that believe his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Are they fools and are they stupid? 
That is between them and God. All I can do is show the reason from Scripture. 
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Still nothing of consequence to debunk what millions of Christians - other than you - believe.
You are obstinate. I can only explain so many times before this gets obdurate/non-responsive to my arguments.




So can I.  You are the one making this circular..

I have only claimed what the scriptures make  very clear.. Jesus did not return before a "generation had passed"  and neither didn't a single one of those " living"  at the time his  promise witness" his coming  on a cloud".


Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.  Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
 AND neither of the above happened.   AND MAYBE because AS YOU SAY,   "to the Lord a day is a thousand year" 2Peter 3:8 which would make it around 1300 AD  and well passed AD 66_70. 


When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  
Jesus restored Peter so that He could fulfill the role that he was appointed for, the apostle to the Jews.

 So says you, for which you have no evidence or proof.  But, doesn't matter what you say Jesus was supposed to have done, we know the exact nature of the man. He was  liar and a traitor that had denied even knowing Jesus. So that sb just don't wash. 

Interesting though that you call  "Peter an apostle of the Jews".  This would be in the same sense as Jesus being king of the Jews that  was sent to "only" to the Jews, I take it.


He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over 


  Do I? 
What I actaully have been doing is simply quoting from these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures what they themselves have to say on the matter of Jesus' return. I haven't had to "assert " anything. I haven't interpreted anything either.  but YOU on the other hand,  by your own admission has been interpreting everything for us. This is YOU above saying this , is it not ? >>>>  "I offered for my interpretation as biblical".


"every eye will see him,"  sayeth the Lord

Yet you are still unable to produce one single written eye witness account of Jesus returning on a cloud as  only you seem to believe , in AD 66_70


While YOU are telling the world that Jesus has already returned there are  MILLIONS upon millions of Christians that believe his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Are they fools and are they stupid? 

That is between them and God. All I can do is show the reason from Scripture. 

 And between what you believe as apposed to what millions of them believe. I keep telling you, only one of you can be correct. You see, JUST LIKE YOU, they also choose verses from the same unreliable ambiguous book that they believe speak of Jesus' return very soon. 




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@Stephen
Thanks Stephen,

it is nice to see some people attempting to provide good material to consider.  

I think the notion that Jesus returning so soon after he left makes little sense.  No wonder we see so much weirdness in the Christian movement. 

8 days later

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@Stephen
Still nothing of consequence to debunk what millions of Christians - other than you - believe.

You are obstinate. I can only explain so many times before this gets obdurate/non-responsive to my arguments.

So can I.  You are the one making this circular..
You keep posting the same verses like a recording WITHOUT addressing my rebuttals. I offer different additional pieces of evidence and remind the reader of what those verses like 2 Peter 3 you continually offer actually convey - the opposite of what you claim. You ignore my rebuttals, not addressing my arguments. Your assertions prove nothing. You keep missing many obvious indicators that confirm that Jesus did come as His promised, such as neglecting to understand what "coming in the Father's glory" meant. You keep neglecting that the signs Jesus said would happen happened as He said they would, every one of them, and they can be demonstrated as happening in many cases via Scripture.

I have only claimed what the scriptures make  very clear.. Jesus did not return before a "generation had passed"  and neither didn't a single one of those " living"  at the time his  promise witness" his coming  on a cloud".
Yes, He did. I have made it evident that you misunderstand and purposely ignore my rebuttals and proof. For instance, you have yet to tell the reader how the Father came in glory in the OT. That is how Jesus describes His coming to His disciples when He told them that some standing there would not taste death until they saw Him coming in the Father's glory with His angels and coming in His kingdom.


Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.  Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
 AND neither of the above happened.   AND MAYBE because AS YOU SAY,   "to the Lord a day is a thousand year" 2Peter 3:8 which would make it around 1300 AD  and well passed AD 66_70. 
Okay, what things were to happen? What are things connected to His coming? What are the signs? I can show you evidence that every one of those things happened and the signs were present. Remember, the disciples asked, "When will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [a]end of the age?” - Matthew 24:3

First, how do the Scriptures describe what a generation is?

I explained that to you because the comparison between the OT generation in the wilderness (out of Egypt) is being compared to the NT one Jesus referred to as 'this generation.' Specifically, the reader is told how long a generation was in both Hebrews and the OT. If you or anyone, Stephen, cannot identify the generation Jesus was speaking to and how long a generation is, it can fit any generation unjustifiably. But it is justifiably forty years and coincides with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Hebrews 3:7-11
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as [d]when they provoked Me,
As on the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers put Me to the test,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
11 As I swore in My anger,
‘They certainly shall not enter My rest.’”

17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Next, Jesus said His coming would be at the end of the age. Jesus only makes mention of two ages, "this age" and "the age to come." Jesus includes Himself and the disciples in "this age."

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

And his master complimented the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light.

who will not receive many times as much at this time, and in the age to come, eternal life.”

Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and the women are given in marriage,

If that is not enough, the NT writers also make the age clear:

Where is the wise person? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has God not made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;

who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

***

Let us take a sample of all these things to happen from 10 verses of the Olivet Discourse as Matthew records it:

Matthew 24:4-14 (NASB)
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one [a]misleads you. 5 [1] For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the [b]Christ,’ and [2] they will [c]mislead many people. 6 [3] And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 [4] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and [5] there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.
9 [6] “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and [7] you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 [8] And at that time many will [d]fall away, and [9] they will [e]betray one another and hate one another. 11 [10] And many false prophets will rise up and [f]mislead many people. 12 And because [11] lawlessness is increased, [g]most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 [12] This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole [h]world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[1] Many false Messiahs and prophets of which not only the NT writers mention but also people such as Josephus, Eusebius, and Irenaeus. 

For, some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.

Josephus reiterates that Theudas drew a great number to him (The Antiquities of the Jews20:5:1). He also speaks of false prophets.

After this man, Judas of Galilee appeared in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he also perished, and all those who followed him were scattered.

Now a man named Simon had previously been practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10 and all the people, from small to great, were paying attention to him, saying, “This man is the Power of God that is called Great.” 11 And they were paying attention to him because for a long time he had astounded them with his magic arts.

Gary DeMar notes that Eusebius, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, 2:13, 62 also discusses how some considered him a god.

When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

[2] They misled many people, also recorded by the NT writers and Josephus. (see above) 
[3] Wars and rumours of wars --> Josephus records the Jewish wars.
[4] Josephus records nations and kingdoms clashing. 
[5] Josephus as well as the NT writers mention earthquakes and famines, none greater than what took place during the surrounding of Jerusalem in AD 70. 
The NT also records some of these things. 

“Now a famine came over all Egypt and Canaan, and great affliction with it, and our fathers could find no food.

One of them, named Agabus, stood up and indicated by the Spirit that there would definitely be a severe famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius.

Gary DeMar lists secular historians recording earthquakes in "Crete, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, Laodicea, Hierapolis, Colosse, Campania, Rome, and Judea." Last Days Madness, p80-81

[6] Church fathers as well as NT writers describe the disciples handed over to persecution and tribulation.
NT writers: 

But Paul said to them, “After beating us in public without due process—men who are Romans—they threw us into prison; and now they are releasing us secretly? No indeed! On the contrary, let them come in person and lead us out.”

And when a great dissension occurred, the commander was afraid that Paul would be torn to pieces by them, and he ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring him into the barracks.

[ A Conspiracy to Kill Paul ] When it was day, the Jews formed a conspiracy and put themselves under an oath, saying that they would neither eat nor drink until they had killed Paul.

They came to the chief priests and the elders and said, “We have put ourselves under an oath to taste nothing until we have killed Paul.

After Paul arrived, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood around him, bringing many, and serious, charges against him which they could not prove,

But Festus, wanting to do the Jews a favor, replied to Paul and said, “Are you willing to go up to Jerusalem and stand trial before me on these charges?”

and we labor, working with our own hands; when we are verbally abused, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

2 Corinthians 4:8-10 (NASB)
8 we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying around in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.

For even when we came into Macedonia our flesh had no rest, but we were afflicted on every side: conflicts on the outside, fears inside.

But as for me, brothers and sisters, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been eliminated.

And not only this, but we also celebrate in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;

Therefore I ask you not to become discouraged about my tribulations in your behalf, since they are your glory.
 
[7] Hated --> There was a lot of hatred by the Jews towards the Christians.  
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@Stephen
Continuing,

Take a sample of "all these things to happen" from just 10 verses of the Olivet Discourse as Matthew records it:

Matthew 24:4-14 (NASB)
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one [a]misleads you. 5 [1] For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the [b]Christ,' and [2] they will [c]mislead many people. 6 [3] And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 [4] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and [5] there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.
9 [6] "Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and [7] you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 [8] And at that time many will [d]fall away, and [9] they will [e]betray one another and hate one another. 11 [10] And many false prophets will rise up and [f]mislead many people. 12 And because [11] lawlessness is increased, [g]most people's love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 [12] This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole [h]world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[1] Many false Messiahs and prophets the NT writers mention, and additional sources like Josephus, Eusebius, and Irenaeus reference them also.

For, some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.

Josephus reiterates that Theudas drew a great number to him (The Antiquities of the Jews20:5:1). He also speaks of false prophets.

After this man, Judas of Galilee appeared in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he also perished, and all those who followed him were scattered.

Now a man named Simon had previously been practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10 and all the people, from small to great, were paying attention to him, saying, "This man is the Power of God that is called Great." 11 And they were paying attention to him because for a long time he had astounded them with his magic arts.

Gary DeMar notes that Eusebius, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, 2:13, 62 also discusses how some considered him a god.

When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

[2] They misled many people, also recorded by the NT writers and Josephus. (see above) 
[3] Wars and rumours of wars --> Josephus records the Jewish wars.
[4] Josephus records nations and kingdoms clashing. 
[5] Josephus and the NT writers mention earthquakes and famines, none greater than what took place during the surrounding of Jerusalem in AD 70. 
The NT also records some of these things. 

"Now a famine came over all Egypt and Canaan, and great affliction with it, and our fathers could find no food.

One of them, named Agabus, stood up and indicated by the Spirit that there would definitely be a severe famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius.

Gary DeMar lists secular historians recording earthquakes in "Crete, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, Laodicea, Hierapolis, Colosse, Campania, Rome, and Judea." Last Days Madness, p80-81

[6] Church fathers, as well as NT writers, describe the disciples handed over to persecution and tribulation.
NT writers: 

But Paul said to them, "After beating us in public without due process—men who are Romans—they threw us into prison; and now they are releasing us secretly? No indeed! On the contrary, let them come in person and lead us out."

And when a great dissension occurred, the commander was afraid that Paul would be torn to pieces by them, and he ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring him into the barracks.

[ A Conspiracy to Kill Paul ] When it was day, the Jews formed a conspiracy and put themselves under an oath, saying that they would neither eat nor drink until they had killed Paul.

They came to the chief priests and the elders and said, "We have put ourselves under an oath to taste nothing until we have killed Paul.

After Paul arrived, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood around him, bringing many, and serious, charges against him which they could not prove,

But Festus, wanting to do the Jews a favor, replied to Paul and said, "Are you willing to go up to Jerusalem and stand trial before me on these charges?"

and we labor, working with our own hands; when we are verbally abused, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;

2 Corinthians 4:8-10 (NASB)
8 we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying around in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.

For even when we came into Macedonia our flesh had no rest, but we were afflicted on every side: conflicts on the outside, fears inside.

But as for me, brothers and sisters, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been eliminated.

And not only this, but we also celebrate in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;

Therefore I ask you not to become discouraged about my tribulations in your behalf, since they are your glory.
 
[7] Hated --> There was a lot of hatred by the Jews towards the Christians.  

I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers at sea, dangers among false brothers;

For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews,
 
[8] The falling away is described in the NT, of which 2 Peter 3 is just one instance. 

Abandonment of Faith ] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

The Danger of Unbelief ] Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that fallaway from the living God.

The Danger of Falling Away ] Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

[9] Betrayal.

For we who live are constantly being handed over to death because of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our mortal flesh.

[10] See [1]
[11] A falling away or indifference --> made evident in 2 Peter 3 and other epistles by Paul's constant warnings to not give up, plus John's warning to the churches, especially the church in Laodecea.

Revelation 3:13-15 (NASB)
13 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
Message to Laodicea
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the [a]Origin of the creation of God, says this:
15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

[12] The NT writers record the gospel being preached in all the world. 

Romans 1:8 (NASB)
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ [a]for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the world.

Romans 10:18 
18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the [a]world."

Romans 16:25-26 (NASB)
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now has been disclosed, and through the Scriptures of the prophets, in accordance with the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)
5 because of the hope reserved for you in [a]heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, [b]the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as [c]in all the world also it is bearing fruit and [d]increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard it and [e]understood the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [b]was made a [c]minister.

There is a lot more evidence that these things happened, of which I will not get into now for time's sake. 

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The entire construct of the Christian religion is based on the Bible. Theists are taught to maintain a blind trust in everything their religion teaches, and to utilize broken reasoning where evidence and logic fail to support their assertions – especially with the existence of god arguments. Without it their whole world would fall apart. The Bible is full of impossibilities but this is the belief in magic which is taught and maintained to avoid such challenges. To question the Bible is unthinkable to most apologetics. To them, it is the unerring word of their god, despite its irrationalities, shortcomings, contradictions and flaws.
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@Stephen
Continue,



When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - a man  that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER, the traitor and coward that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?  
Jesus restored Peter so that He could fulfill the role that he was appointed for, the apostle to the Jews.

 So says you, for which you have no evidence or proof.  But, doesn't matter what you say Jesus was supposed to have done, we know the exact nature of the man. He was  liar and a traitor that had denied even knowing Jesus. So that sb just don't wash.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

Jesus told Peter that he would deny Him three times, but He later restored Peter to His grace. I have already documented that for those who are interested. Stephen is ignoring those passages. 

Interesting though that you call  "Peter an apostle of the Jews". 
I am repeating what Scripture calls Peter, 1) an apostle, 2) to the Jews (Galatians 2:7). Another weak argument on your part that ignores the very writings you profess to know so well. 


This would be in the same sense as Jesus being king of the Jews that  was sent to "only" to the Jews, I take it.
Reiterated by Jesus Himself and the Gospel writers

Pilate questioned Him: “So You are the King of the Jews?” And He answered him, “It is as you say.

Sent only to the Jews? Yes, at the time of His coming, but ,it later went out to the Gentiles because of Jewish unbelief. 

He came to His own, and His own people did not accept Him.


He just keeps asserting his favourite verses over and over 


  Do I? 
What I actaully have been doing is simply quoting from these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures what they themselves have to say on the matter of Jesus' return. I haven't had to "assert " anything. I haven't interpreted anything either.  but YOU on the other hand,  by your own admission has been interpreting everything for us. This is YOU above saying this , is it not ? >>>>  "I offered for my interpretation as biblical".
They are not unreliable or ambiguous. Your thinking is closed to what is said. 


"every eye will see him,"  sayeth the Lord
In what way will every eye see Him? 

I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Does you heart have eyes? That is metaphoric language. In the same way,

And thethe sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

The SIGN of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. 

They will see the Son of Man coming ON the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. How do you stay ON a cloud? I already showed you the different verses that speak of seeing the coming and they convey different things --> on the clouds (Matthew 24:30), He is coming with the clouds (Revelation 1:7), come in the glory of His Father with His angels (Matthew 16:27), with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God (1 Thessalonians 4:16). 

There is a lot of symbolism in these verses that you need to understand to properly interpret the passages. 

The Coming of Christ ] And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

Yet you are still unable to produce one single written eye witness account of Jesus returning on a cloud as  only you seem to believe , in AD 66_70
How could I produce an eyewitness when these epistles and gospels were written before the fall of Jesusalem and before His coming?

AD 66-67 is when some believe Peter's epistles were written just before his death and shortly before Jesus' coming. 

While YOU are telling the world that Jesus has already returned there are  MILLIONS upon millions of Christians that believe his return hasn't happened yet but is imminent. Are they fools and are they stupid? 

That is between them and God. All I can do is show the reason from Scripture. 

 And between what you believe as apposed to what millions of them believe. I keep telling you, only one of you can be correct. You see, JUST LIKE YOU, they also choose verses from the same unreliable ambiguous book that they believe speak of Jesus' return very soon. 

Scripture is the benchmark, not what someone believes if it disagrees with the written word. If you think  I am incorrect then give the best evidence you can to prove it. 

There is no way that His coming speaks of any other time than during that 1st-century. Soon, near, quickly do not mean centuries later, far, or slow. Jesus defines 'this generation' as He does 'this age.' All the signs can be shown to have happened during the 1st-century, therefore your wooden interpretation of His coming as literal is wrong especially when you understand what the reference means "coming in the Father's glory" means.






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@FLRW
The entire construct of the Christian religion is based on the Bible.
The entire construct of the atheist or secular humanist worldview is based on random chance happenstance, and human's as the measure of all things, so what?

Theists are taught to maintain a blind trust in everything their religion teaches, and to utilize broken reasoning where evidence and logic fail to support their assertions – especially with the existence of god arguments.
That is a bogus argument, and you know it. You are clumping all theists together. The Christian religion is not blind faith, even if some Christians blindly trust. It is a most reasonable faith, unlike atheism.

Beginnings/origins are where atheists fail to connect and where they come up with all kinds of assertions and pet theories that don't make sense while they pretend they have the answers. 

Without it their whole world would fall apart. The Bible is full of impossibilities but this is the belief in magic which is taught and maintained to avoid such challenges.
Atheism 101 voodoo: Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, the Universe exploded into existence from nothing. No further explanation is required—gullibility at its finest.  

To question the Bible is unthinkable to most apologetics. To them, it is the unerring word of their god, despite its irrationalities, shortcomings, contradictions and flaws.
To question how random chance happenstance can do anything, let alone sustain anything, is the big question that goes unexplained.

Your entire argument went south with your current attack, rather than refuting what I said in my last three posts.
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@PGA2.0
You keep posting the same verses 

That's correct and you need to read them .. They all say and show Jesus didn't return in the time that he promised that he would.  Would you like them again? And you haven't proven that a dead stinking rotten corpse rose from being dead to being alive again in AD 66-70, either. So , when you ready, the floor is all yours, knock yourself out.
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@Stephen
@FLRW
You keep posting the same verses 

That's correct and you need to read them .. They all say and show Jesus didn't return in the time that he promised that he would.  Would you like them again? And you haven't proven that a dead stinking rotten corpse rose from being dead to being alive again in AD 66-70, either. So , when you ready, the floor is all yours, knock yourself out.
To suggest I never read them is disingenuous. I have replied to them repeatedly, and you have continually dodged my replies by reposting the same verses, over and over. They show the opposite of a no-show and that you do not understand how He returned. The NT explicitly says His body did not decompose about the rotting corpse, yet you continually kick around this falsehood. There are seven verses in the link that says otherwise. You also confuse His return with His judgment. It shows me the deep misunderstanding you have of Scripture that you don't seem to be aware of in your constant collapsing of texts and ignoring the greater context. The judgment was from AD 66.5 to AD 70. That is why Paul could write, 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and [r]drove us out. [s]They are not pleasing to God, [t]but hostile to all people, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always [u]reach the limit of their sins. But wrath has come upon them [v]fully.

To the reader: This verse shows the time of God pouring out His wrath on Israel had begun. The curses of Deuteronomy 28 were in the process of fulfillment. Jesus told His disciples that the days of vengeance would be fulfilled when the signs or happenings He listed had been completed. I could go through those, one by one, to demonstrate that, but it would require more work. These happenings' completion would signify or bring the return of Christ in His glory, the glory of the Father, the parousia. The resulting end, the destruction of Jerusalem, is the most reasonable proof/evidence of the truth of Christianity and return of Christ, or as put by one author,  

The Destruction of Jerusalem,  An Absolute and Irresistible Proof of the Divine Origin of Christianity
INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS So far as they tend to verify OUR LORD’S PREDICTIONS By George Peter Holford 1805.

David Chilton, David Chilton - Days of Vengeance on Vimeo is another that lays down the evidence of a 1st-century fulfillment that offers so much evidence Stephen would be hard-pressed to refute it. 

A third that would help others understand the coming or parousia is James Stuart Russell, The Parousia, and show how Stephen has no clue what he speaks about regarding His coming. I could list many online authors who do an in-depth study of these verses that Stephen makes such a big deal over without understanding them, but they will suffice for now. 

I proposed to Stephen a debate where you, the reader, are the judge as to who has the more reasonable position and whose view is evidenced better. That would mean that Stephen would be accountable for what he says and refute what I say in my counterarguments.  Stephen refused to do this but said he would only debate it on the forum. He keeps falling back on the same verses over and over without refuting the counter verses and argument I give him. Is that reasonable? No, it is not. There is no accountability by Stephen here. Instead of refuting my position, he keeps rehashing the same verses over and over again (that I countered in several different ways) as if that proves his point. It does not because he refuses to demonstrate how the Father came in glory in the OT. Jesus said in Matthew 16:27-28 that He would come in His Father's glory. What does that mean? Stephen refuses to disclose what it means or show from OT passages how the Father manifested Himself. He takes "see" to mean physical sight, while it can mean understanding or mental seeing. 

What did Jesus say to His disciples when they came to Him on the Mount of Olives after He told them that not one stone of the temple buildings would remain? Well, what were the disciple's questions?

1. When will these things happen?
2. What will be the sign of Your coming?
3. When will be the [a]end of the age?

Matthew 24:3 (NASB)
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the [a]end of the age?”

1. So, we need to know the when. When do Jesus and the NT writers say these things (verse 4-51) will happen? I have shown they apply to the 1st-century and within the confines of that generation. I gave a break down of the ten verses after the disciples ask these questions as to the signs Jesus discloses. No answer from Stephen. He pushes them under the proverbial rug thinking that ignoring such things and repeating his pet verse bolsters his case. It does not. 

I asked Stephen, how long does the NT disclose the generation Jesus refers to is? Stephen refuses to answer that question. He understands it does not fair well with his position. 

2. I asked Stephen what signs is Jesus referring to in Matthew 24 that signify His coming? Again, no response. This is an important point because if the sign of His coming is being fulfilled, the disciples would know that it (His coming) is near, right at the door (Matthew 24:33). Again, no answer. The fulfillment of these signs and happenings would signify that Jesus is about to return. 

Notice that the return or Second Coming follows the fulfillment of "all these things," which in turn brings to a close the age of the OT or Old Covenant. The two covenants existed side by side for 40 years during the transition. 

3. I asked Stephen what age Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:3. Again, no answer. This guy keeps neglecting all my counterpoints, all of them. Is that a reasonable discussion? 

I asked Stephen to show that these happenings or "all these things" did not happen in the 1st-century. He failed once again to oblige my points. This all points to the weakness of his arguments. 

I asked Stephen to prove that "see" can only mean physical sight. No answer, yet this is what he seems to believe. 
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@Timid8967
Post 148 takes care of your objections.

it is nice to see some people attempting to provide good material to consider.  

I think the notion that Jesus returning so soon after he left makes little sense.  No wonder we see so much weirdness in the Christian movement. 
So soon? Within the span of a generation. What generation do you think Jesus is referring to, and how long does the NT give a generation to be? 

What happenings do you not believe were fulfilled in the 1st-century before the destruction of the city and temple?

What does it mean when Jesus said He would "come in the Father's glory?" How did the Father manifest Himself in glory in the OT? 

In Matthew 24 and Revelation, do you take every verse as woodenly literal, or do you understand some verses speak of the figurative or metaphorical? 
Do you understand that Revelation is John's version of the Olivet Discourse, taking place at the beginning of the tribulation?

The Patmos Vision ] I, John, your brother and fellow participant in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

The same great tribulation Matthew, Mark, and Luke speak of in their version of the Olivet Discourse, John also speaks about, yet he puts himself in the tribulation that was yet to come for the other three authors. 

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@PGA2.0
it is nice to see some people attempting to provide good material to consider.  

I think the notion that Jesus returning so soon after he left makes little sense.  No wonder we see so much weirdness in the Christian movement. 
So soon? Within the span of a generation. What generation do you think Jesus is referring to, and how long does the NT give a generation to be? 

But he didn't did he. And the bible says he didn't. And Peter the lair, and traitor and denier of Jesus, makes up some bullshit excuse for the no show saying  2a day is a thousand years".