A problem for the Ontological Argument

Author: Sum1hugme

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#91
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@PGA2.0
Throughout, I maintain the acceptance of a GOD principle.


The Bible however, is a book about men of Arabia written by men of Arabia.


A region heavily influenced by Mediterranean, North African and Asian cultures...... So it's no wonder that a home grown creation hypothesis is GOD based.

And let's be honest,  hypothetical GODS were  a global tradition......The simplest and most logical  contemporary solution, in the absence of anything better.


So Tales from Arabia, will inevitably be interwoven with the antics of this home grown supernatural creator....As was and is the tradition of creation myths.

Nonetheless the GOD principle is sound, but the accompanying human antics and reverential rhetoric are not necessarily necessary to such a simple hypothesis.

If an actual specific singular GOD does exist......Then it's concerns will far exceed the ramblings and naivety of a few men of Arabia.

The fact that Arabian myths continue to be perpetuated around the Word is a testament to human predictability, rather than a testament to the human ability to understand the GOD principle.





#92
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If an actual specific singular GOD does exist......Then it's concerns will far exceed the ramblings and naivety of a few men of Arabia.
Well stated.
#93
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@zedvictor4
Throughout, I maintain the acceptance of a GOD principle.


The Bible however, is a book about men of Arabia written by men of Arabia.
Some of the writings were written in Asia and Europe. But, so what?


A region heavily influenced by Mediterranean, North African and Asian cultures...... So it's no wonder that a home grown creation hypothesis is GOD based.
How so?

And let's be honest,  hypothetical GODS were  a global tradition......The simplest and most logical  contemporary solution, in the absence of anything better.
How well do you understand the Bible?


So Tales from Arabia, will inevitably be interwoven with the antics of this home grown supernatural creator....As was and is the tradition of creation myths.

Nonetheless the GOD principle is sound, but the accompanying human antics and reverential rhetoric are not necessarily necessary to such a simple hypothesis.

If an actual specific singular GOD does exist......Then it's concerns will far exceed the ramblings and naivety of a few men of Arabia.

The fact that Arabian myths continue to be perpetuated around the Word is a testament to human predictability, rather than a testament to the human ability to understand the GOD principle.
Your thoughts fly in the face of the teaching of Scripture. While you are welcome to believe what you want the biblical God is not hypothetical. 

Sure, to you it is the unknown God. To the Christian, God has made Himself known. The proofs are most reasonable.
#94
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@fauxlaw

.

As is plainly seen to the membership of this esteemed Religion Forum, we have the pseudo-christian PGA2.0 literally running away from discussion of Jesus’ true words with me, what’s new? NOTHING!


PGA2.0’ DIRECT QUOTE TO ME IN THE LINK BELOW:  “Be glad to formally debate you on your interpretations of the Bible. Brother D, would you consider putting your money where your mouth is and accept a debate challenge on my interpretation as opposed to yours, or just stumble on?”  

The following runaway links, that are embarrassingly growing in numbers like FAUXLAW'S did under the same circumstances, show that PGA2.0 continues to run away from him challenging me, and me accepting the challenge under specific requirements so as not to waste my time.




To make it even worse for the totally Bible inept pseudo-christian PGA2.0 runaway is the link below where I called him out on Jesus’ Second Coming, and then when he obviously couldn’t come up with any Satanic apologetics to the topic in question, PGA2.0  has to remain silent and runs away again like a scared little boy to save further embarrassment upon this forum.


RUNAWAY PGA2.0, HEADS UP, WITH YOU RUNNING AWAY FROM DISCUSSION THAT YOU CREATED FOR ME TO ANSWER, AND WHEN I DID ANSWER, AND YOU COMPLETELY  FAIL TO RESPOND TO MY ANSWERS,  IS NOT HARASSMENT BECAUSE YOU HAVE YET TO TELL US WHY YOU HAVE TO RUN AWAY LIKE A LITTLE PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN CRYBABY BOY IN FRONT OF ME AND THE MEMBERSHIP, UNDERSTOOD BIBLE FOOL?  HUH?

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#95
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The teaching of scripture is why you are a Christian.

The teaching of other religious texts is why others consider themselves to be  variously and differently theistic.

I wasn't taught to be theistic, so I am not inclined to accept religious texts as  being entirely factual.

The key to perpetual  theism, is in the teaching.
#96
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@zedvictor4
The teaching of scripture is why you are a Christian.

The teaching of other religious texts is why others consider themselves to be  variously and differently theistic.

I wasn't taught to be theistic, so I am not inclined to accept religious texts as  being entirely factual.

The key to perpetual  theism, is in the teaching.
The Christian faith is justifiable and reasonable to believe. See the discussion on No Show. 

I believe that no other worldview is so internally consistent and am willing to discuss such claims after my current debate. 
#97
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@zedvictor4
literally, no Christian confirmed it's faith by the Ontological Argument

The argument is certainly sound, but not one that makes people change religion
#98
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@Sum1hugme
Errors, errors... sure, whatever... i haven't studied philosophy in years. The important thing about this argument to me is the language. If a max being exists, it exists. The idea basically falls back on imagination. It's an imagination argument, imho. 

Here is how i take it... we can imagine the marvel universe, in some universe, some possible world that exists... period. I stop there, bc it's gone too far, but has it? 

Let's change the subject to aliens. In our universe, do you think there are aliens? Let's not even get picky... organisms, virus' .. whatever, exists on some other planet; falls under alien category btw. Is that possible? I'm pretty sure most people would say, of course... we can't be alone; the lone planet. Interesting thing here is, there is still no proof of this argument... but, i agree... there has to be another planet with "life." It's a probability thing. If it happened here, then it happened somewhere else. But most importantly, we think that way bc the universe is HUGE. 

Let's go back to the ontyy argument. That's how i look at the argument. I'm an agnostic fictional realist bc of it. Why? Bc of infinity. Prove infinity wrong or whatever... i'll listen to that argument, but i haven't found any convincing.  So... if infinity is real, and so is our type of intelligence... creative, imaginative, smart, intelligent, etc. etc. I think the lowest being that is real is a god... sure, great argument, there is a god... but, what does that mean? The implications are insane... bc of infinity. 

It's the same as the alien argument to me... and, the whole trick of it is that if it exists, and we are not suppose to know about it... we won't. Bc of infinity.... this universe is huge? Are you fckin kidding me.... you, an ant finite being is trying to figure out infinity? As a shonen anime geek.... i still haven't run out of beautiful insane worlds we have come up with... as finite beings. Fiction always follows a story, it has to. But hey... i'm not into slice of life anime... maybe there's a reason, the answer is more boring... death is lights out. 
#99
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Acceptance of a GOD principle is one thing, but belief in something specific and unknowable is another.

And  an Internally consistent worldview....What does that actually mean?

Internal to an individual perhaps.....Well programming is such, that acquired and stored data, becomes consistent.....Especially formatively acquired data.....In other words, what you are taught to accept as belief, will generally stay with you.

Hence you think one thing and call it belief....And I think another, and refer to it as an acceptable principle.

We're not miles apart.....But for me, the myth of the Bible stories is what it is.....The same as any other creation myth.....A human creation idea embellished with  human based  fantasy characters.......GODS made in a preconditioned image.

Old GODS  evolved into Tales from Arabia...Right place, right time...And so the perpetuation of the data evolved into a variety of  similarly theistic, semi-consistent, worldwide, super-naturally embellished creation hypotheses....Religions.

And dependant upon where when and how formative programming is applied, will pretty much guarantee how one will turn out. ...And those that manage to avoid such conditioning, will either remain sceptical or  be susceptible to social influence.

And you will not agree with any of this, because you were taught not to agree.

And I will not accept accept Tales from Arabia as anything other than Tales from Arabia.

GOD principle remains sound and consistent.....Call it BIG BOOM call it Geoff.

Singing, dancing, praying, chanting,  head nodding, kneeling on the floor mumbling , incense swinging, water splashing etc etc.......Are a meaningful, yet meaningless way of accepting the GOD principle and passing the time of day.

Or one can just give it a momentary thought, and then get on with other meaningfully meaningless distractions.
#100
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Stringing words together is something that humans do.....And as long as they are recognised as being grammatically coherent...Then they may well constitute a sound narrative.

Though that is not to say that a sound narrative necessarily. represents a sound theoretical narrative.

Blah de blah de blah so therefore GOD......You might as well just say GOD....Because we're all  already pretty much clued up on the GOD principle.....The philosophical BS, is largely unnecessary, save for the justification of largely unnecessary philosophers.

And I agree.... No one really gives a toss about the O.A.....Save for on philosophically obscure occasions such as this.
#101
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@zedvictor4
thats not the ontological argument
#102
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@Dr.Franklin
Blah de blah de blah GOD...Is the whole point of the O.A.

And as such, no real problem as a philosophical exercise.

But not to be taken as some sort of definitive proof of a GOD.

As a maximally great being,  could be anything or nothing at all.


#103
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@zedvictor4
you dont get it
#104
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OK Doc.

So you think that you get it?

So tell me what you get?
#105
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@zedvictor4
i got everything
#106
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Lucky you.
#107
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cool