I don't think any of the parties are 100% consistent

Author: TheUnderdog ,

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  • TheUnderdog
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    Conservatives: We want small government.

    Me: Then why are you pro life and anti open borders?

    Democrats: We want big government.

    Me: Then why are you pro choice and want less immigration restrictions?

    Conservatives: We want the right to life.

    Me: Then why do you oppose UHC?

    Democrats: We want choice.  We are pro choice.

    Me: Then why do you want to ban certain choices of firearms, like the AK47 and the AR15?

    Conservatives: We want personal responsibility.  Right?  I mean, we want you to take responsibility for pregnencies, and we oppose welfare for the common person because they should take more personal responsibility.

    Me: Then why do you want to give more welfare to corporations?  At least the poor person needs welfare to save their life.  The corporation is just using welfare to get richer.  I personally don't like either type of welfare.

    Democrats: We wish to minimize pain.  Non consensual pregnency is painful and welfare minimizes pain.

    Me: Then why are you guys applying cancel culture on many people?  That causes a lot of pain for people, and them getting cancelled causes more overall pain than people's feelings being hurt.  People's feelings last a few seconds, getting cancelled lasts much longer.

    Libetarians: We want small government and we want more freedoms.  How are we inconsistent with this?

    Me: Well, first off, you support nuclear energy, which is big government.  You claim the energy is safe, but that's a statist argument(they are the ones who want all these restrictions in the name of safety).  If nuclear energy was America's sole source of energy, it would cost taxpayers over $300 billion a year, which is 6x more than what conventional welfare costs the feds, and you think welfare is too much big government.  2nd off, you are against the death penalty, even though it is consistent pro choice ethic (being pro choice on abortion and letting the victims decide if they wish to execute their murderer).  You claim that the government shouldn't have the power to take someone's life.  However, the government doesn't have that power; the victims do, and the government merely executes the will of the victims onto the murderer (get the pun?).  There is the fear of executing someone that is innocent, however, there is a risk that an immigrant commits a murder and there is a risk that an AK 47 owner will commit a mass shooting.  However, you correctly point out that these risks are so rare, that they should not dictate national policy.

    Conclusion: None of the 3 most common political parties are consistent and most of their members aren't either, not even the libetarians.  People should, "dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another" as instructed by the declaration of independence and think for themselves.
  • oromagi
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    You start off talking about parties but then compare  the democratic party to conservatives.  Conservatives are not a US party and American conservatives as represented by traditionalists like George Will and Henry Kissinger have been voting for Democratic candidates since Trump took over the Republican party.  You can be liberal and conservative at the same time.  You can't be a Democrat and a Republican at the same time, at least to the extent that you must choose at the polls.  Since the Republican party failed to publish a new platform in both 2016 and 2020, I don't think Republicans can be fairly criticized for not standing by ideas they have never promised to support.  Officially, the only ideas the Republican Party are on the hook to support are Trump's ideas and those are so subject to Trump's present need that Republicans are required to believe opposite things on successive days.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @oromagi
    One would hope that all republicans are democrats.

    Though Trump et al, did briefly toy with the idea of mob rule.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    enlightened centrist moment.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @zedvictor4
    One would hope that all republicans are democrats.
    They are. At least the career politicians in Washington DC. Their voters, maybe not so much.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Greyparrot
    True.

    Sheep are reliant on the mob.

    But easily persuaded by the dog.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @zedvictor4
    And the top dogs have always lived in swampy DC. One tribe. One vision.
  • Danielle
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    Democrats: We wish to minimize pain.  Non consensual pregnency is painful and welfare minimizes pain.

    Me: Then why are you guys applying cancel culture on many people?   



    Comparing cancel culture to rape pregnancy. Very astute. 

  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Danielle
    He's done it before on another thread of his in a racist manner.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Come up with a 100% consistent political platform please. I'd like to see you try.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Danielle
    Cancel culture imposes pain upon those that are being cancelled.  Punching Nazis is imposing pain upon those being punched.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @RationalMadman
    He's done it before on another thread of his in a racist manner.
    What did I say here before that is racist?

    Come up with a 100% consistent political platform please. I'd like to see you try.
    The party of choice.  We believe:

    -Everything the libetarian party believes, except the following:

     1) Libetarians support nuclear power.  The party of choice believes people should decide their own energy sources and the government shouldn't pay for any nuclear power plants.  All nuclear power plants should be sold to private enterprises and the only people that should use nuclear energy are those that want to.

    2) Libetarians oppose the death penalty.  The party of choice believes that murder victims should have the choice to put their murderer to death, or to keep the murderer alive.  This is consistent choice ethic.

    I'd say this is more consistent.
  • Danielle
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Drinking milk causes people with lactose intolerance pain. Therefore, anyone who claims they do not like seeing others in pain must be against ice cream. I see your point. 
  • Danielle
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Libertarians do not support public subsidies for nuclear energy. 

    Best of luck to you communicating with dead murder victims :) 
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Danielle
    Drinking milk causes people with lactose intolerance pain. Therefore, anyone who claims they do not like seeing others in pain must be against ice cream. I see your point. 
    Anyone who claims they do not like seeing others in pain must be against lactose intolerant people eating ice cream.  I think all of the parties are on board here, so everyone is anti pain to some level.  It happens to (in theory) define the democrat ideology.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Danielle
    Libertarians do not support public subsidies for nuclear energy. 
    Jo Jorgensen on Energy & Oil (ontheissues.org) states that Jo Jorgenson wants to get the government involved to replace fossil fuel plants with nuclear power plants.

    Best of luck to you communicating with dead murder victims :) 
    You communicate with them while they are still alive.  This can be achieved by every year, people fill out a simple 1 question form that asks, "If someone murdered you today, how would you punish them?"  There would be some options available, and the people who are going to be murder victims in the future (before they get murdered), fill out the form.  Whatever their most recent response was, that answer determines the fate of the murderer if they were the only one murdered.
  • Danielle
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Nothing in that link says Jo Jorgenson wants government to subsidize nuclear power. It quotes her saying she wants to remove government barriers so that nuclear energy is an option where it is currently prohibited. 

    Do you think only murder victims should have a say in how their perpetrator is punished? Any idea on the government bureaucracy and associated costs such a thing would require? 

    Having lactose intolerance and not eating ice cream causes a different kind of pain. Therefore being "against pain" doesn't clarify if one should support a lactose intolerant person eating ice cream or not, since either choice would cause them pain. Nonetheless I have no interest in explaining why the equation of cancel culture with rape pregnancy is pretty outrageous (that's why I didn't tag you). Someone else might be inclined. 
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Let me put it another way, let's say I'm an ignoramus who doesn't know what Libertarians believe, set out your beliefs fully and I will tear to shreds every bit of hypocrisy and double-standards in it.

    If you refuse to do so, I will happily tear apart right-wing Libertarian beliefs, because it is very inconsistent indeed when the rich start preying and oppressing the freedoms of the poor.
  • Double_R
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Democrats: We want big government.

    Me: Then why are you pro choice and want less immigration restrictions?
    The Democrats goal is not big government. Democrats believe government is how we come together to solve our problems, and in many cases it’s the only institution that has that ability. If say everyone stops spending on the heels of an economic collapse, government is the only institution with the means and motivation to spend so we can mitigate the damage. When this is your view of government, naturally your policies will amount to a big government. But that is the effect, not the point.

    Pro choice is simply a belief that a women ultimately have the right over her their own bodies. Nothing about believing in government contradicts this.

    Immigration is a complex issue, but most democrats don’t want less restrictions, we want humane ones.


    Democrats: We want choice.  We are pro choice.

    Me: Then why do you want to ban certain choices of firearms, like the AK47 and the AR15?
    Democrats believe in personal freedom, but the freedom to swing your arms ends at someone else’s nose. Owning a firearm puts the safety of everyone around you subject to your ability to carry it responsibly, therefore everyone should have a chance to weigh in on your right to own one.

    Democrats: We wish to minimize pain.  Non consensual pregnency is painful and welfare minimizes pain.

    Me: Then why are you guys applying cancel culture on many people?  That causes a lot of pain for people, and them getting cancelled causes more overall pain than people's feelings being hurt.  People's feelings last a few seconds, getting cancelled lasts much longer.
    These things are not comparable. But beyond that, cancel culture is about holding people accountable for the pain that they’ve caused others. I personally think it’s gone way to far, but there is no inconsistency here.
  • Greyparrot
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    Libertarians do not support public subsidies for nuclear energy. 
    The best subsidy for nuclear energy is to lift all regulations and lawsuit protections from nuclear startups.

    -Milton Freidman
  • Danielle
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    --> @Greyparrot
    You do realize that Friedman, Sowell, etc. do not share your views on markets, correct? They champion free trade; you seem to despise it. 
  • Greyparrot
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    They champion free trade; you seem to despise it. 
    Just like you "seem" to be a radical leftist.
  • Danielle
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Only the most simple of simpletons would assume I am a radical leftist. Meanwhile you routinely rant and rave about free trade (WAAAAH CHINA) yet cherry pick quotes advocating for free trade when you think you might kinda sorta maybe like the outcome (I know that's not a real quote).  If a nuclear energy company bought anything from overseas,  you would immediately start talking about how we need regulations and reject or ignore everything these free market capitalists say on the matter.  Clearly you're at peace with that and I just find it amusing. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Danielle
    (WAAAAH CHINA)

    I thought you enjoyed China slapping Biden around with a BLM sausage?

  • Danielle
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Lol you know that when you respond with off-topic links I don't watch them, but thanks. China's feelings on BLM mean nothing given their rampant human rights abuses. You know, good ol SUPERIOR CHINA!