Why anarcho communism makes no sense

Author: TheUnderdog ,

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  • TheUnderdog
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    If I strawman here, it is accidental.

    Ancoms: We want no government.  There should be no state to do anything.

    Also Ancoms: We want the state to take everyone's money and distribute it to those who need it.  The state should do something here

    Same ideology as communism, different names.
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    I'm no ancom, but communism Is necessarily anarchistic, because it's a classless system
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Sum1hugme
    So with ancom, there are no classes, but a huge government to make sure everyone has the same amount of wealth?
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    In theory there is no government. That would be a ruling class. Communism is possible in small groups of like minded people
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Communism isn't about ensuring everyone has exactly the same but providing for everyone what they need. Marx thought the marketplace was an economic eden, where men traded as equals, instead of subjugated to factory work out of economic necessity for subsistence pay.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Sum1hugme
    In theory, there would be a huge government.  How else are you going to take rich people's recourses and give it to the poor?  This comes into confliction with anarchy.
  • Earth
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    Anarcho-Capitalism is the ideology that doesn't make sense. Government is bad, but planet wide corporations that own and control everything is fine.
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    You're talking about socialism, where the state controls the means of production. In communism, the workers control the mean of production. There is no forced seizure of property required. Those in a commune choose what to give the commune, if it's an anarchist commune.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Earth
    Corporations owning something is victimless.  People owning property is victimless.  You owning a computer is victimless.  The government telling corporations how to run something that they built is (with exceptions) tyrannical.  If you build a $100 million mansion(that was very huge and could house hundreds of people) and the government forces you to house 100 strangers in your house without your consent, it's easy for you to do, but you shouldn't be forced to do this.  Ancoms want to abolish private property and force you to house people without your consent, which kindof violates the 3rd amendment.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Sum1hugme
     In communism, the workers control the mean of production.
    But isn't the business owner technically a worker and he would own what he produces(the business)?  You own what you produce.  If you produce a company, you own that company.  You own all the profits that come from the company and you own the expenses of the labor from that company.  If workers want to own a company themselves, they can try and build one the same way the ultra rich have done.  If it was easy to be rich, everyone would be rich.  Everyone wants to be rich, but no one is willing to do the work.

    Those in a commune choose what to give the commune, if it's an anarchist commune.
    Your referring to a donation.  A communist country forces you to give, it's not voluntary.
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    There are worker owned businesses. Marx saw it as an injustice that people must, from economic necessity, allow their labor to be exploited in a bastardized version of what was formerly an artisan or craftsman's way to make a living. A country that seizes the means of production is a socialist country. Marx saw socialism as a step in the road to communism but state socialism ended in lots of death. Communism only works in small groups of like minded people
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Sum1hugme
    A worker can own a business by investing in the stock market though.  Yet they want the rewards of owning a business without the risks.  Communism doesn't work at all.  It takes from the producers of companies and gives to those unwilling to take entrepreneurial risks themselves.  If you want to own a business, either invest in the stock market or make your own.
  • Earth
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Thats stupid and no Ancoms actually believe that.

  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Earth
    Thats stupid and no Ancoms actually believe that.

    The definition of ancom is according to wikipedia:
    Anarcho-communism,[1][2][3][4][5] also known as anarchist communism,[a] is a political philosophy and anarchist school of thought which advocates the abolition of the statecapitalismwage laboursocial hierarchies[18] and private property
    So ancoms do want to abolish private property.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Would you like me to help you attack Anarcho-Communism?

    Your current attack is very shallow.
  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @RationalMadman
    Eh, sure; I'll take anyone's support in politics.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    You are trying to attack anarchism itself, so base your attack like that and start off with the same topic with 'anarchy' instead of 'ancom'.

    Then, realise the error you made. You assumed ancoms want a government to enforce it, they don't but they settle for it because society hasn't evolved to the level where we share for the greater good, so readily. 

    Once you appreciate that, you will realise the flaw in Ancom isn't contradiction, it's impractical idealism. Attack based on humans being too selfishly impulsive for it to work.
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Marx distinguished the working class from the capitalist class by the need to work out of economic necessity. So if you are a worker, but your stocks earn enough that you aren't working out of economic necessity,  then you are part of the capitalist class.

      Communism necessarily doesn't have a state. So characterizing state socialism as communism is a false comparison.

  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @Sum1hugme
    Communism necessarily doesn't have a state.
    Yeah it does.  How else are you going to take rich people’s money?
  • Greyparrot
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    Marx advocated for equity, not equality.

    You can never have Equity under anarchy.