Bsh1 sucks at modding, perhaps

Author: Wylted ,

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  • Wylted
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    Wylted
    There is a certain aspect of leadership that many leaders have to deal with that is damaging to the good of the community. When you are not seen as fit for the job because the people you lead used to be your peers, or you are viewed as outside of what people are used to in that particular leadership position. BSH1 and Donald Trump are a lot alike in that respect.

    Modding is a bit of a leadership position. A leadership position not much unlike president of the site that comes with leadership responsibilities and not very much power. Anybody who has been promoted at work and has to lead former peers can probably identify with what BSH1 is going through right now.

    A constant questioning of their leadership philosophy, and questions on their competence in their new role. Having every mistake magnified, and having success seen as failure because the negative results of an action get more attention than the positive results. I've seen many people who otherwise would have made great leaders fold under this pressure. They were scared to make mistakes, every decision they would start to consider what their nay sayers could say in response to it.

    It's a vicious cycle because when they start to behave that way, then they start performing even worse than they were before. There is a learning process to modding. BSH1 will have to learn from his actual mistakes and learn to ignore criticism without explaining himself for his percieved mistakes. BSH1 will have to learn that his idealism and modding philosophy created from it will fail in the real world and make the neccessary adjustments to his philosophy based on that. I'm sure he has and will continue to evolve his philosophy based on the results of seeing it put to practice.

    We can help him flourish instead of folding under to the pressure of being put under a microscope by just trusting his judgement and not trying to impose our untested modding philosophies on him, merely because we smell weakness and think our criticisms will be acted on by him.

    The last part of this message is for BSH1:

    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

    Teddy Roosevelt
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Polytheist-Witch
    You should have been banned so yes, he sucks. 
  • Wylted
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    It is a violation of the CoC to say he sucks. So watch yourself
  • drafterman
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    To respond to the points in the previous thread.

    Your assertions aren't even worth looking into.
    Ok. Then don't look into them. I provided my opinion on moderation. If you don't think it's worthy of consideration then don't consider it. Move on with your life.

    You ask that BSH1 mod in perfect accordance with the letter of the rules. It's absurd and you haven't even backed up that bare assertion. He should just do it that way based on what? Your fealings I suppose?
    I believe that if we have a CoC we should have one for a reason. If we're not going to actually enforce it, then chuck that shit in the garbage can and replace it with a page that's just a mood ring depicting bsh1's mood at that given moment. Sensible way to mod.

    It can't be to eliminate bias in modding decisions, because quite frankly the English language like all languages, is limited and meant to act as short hand for ideals that can't quite be encapsulated with words. You can't remove bias from the modding decision making process.
    Ok. You can't eliminate bias. I agree. But we can reduce it.

    I don't get arguments like this. We can't achieve perfection, ergo we shouldn't even try to make it better? Silly argument. I never asked nor requested perfection. Simply that the rules that are there are the rules that are enforced. Otherwise, why have them?

    You also can't eliminate mistakes or in this case a percieved mistake. BSH1 is human and like all  humans with the exception of one, falls short of perfection. Maybe he made a mistake here in this instance, maybe he is inconsistent because he is constantly evolving and is in essence a slightly new person each day.
    Correct. You can't eliminate mistakes, but you can reduce them.

    But to reduce them, you need to be able to identify them. And you can't even call identify a "mistake" unless you have an objective stick to measure it against. I contend that the rules are that objective stick. If the mods don't follow those rules or enforce them, then they've made a mistake and we can point that out. Not that it'll do anything, bs1h has set himself up as the top of the food chain here.

    I think the worst possible sin here is putting a microscope on what BSH1 does. Do you really want to put his every action under a microscope like it currently is?
    Yes.

    Do you want him to act like he is under a microscope which is trying to expose his every flaw?
    Ah, no! I disagree with the manner in which the moderation team "engages" with the community over moderation action. When the moderators have made a decision, they should enforce that decision and that's the end of it. Getting into flame wars with users over decisions is counter productive. You're always going to run into users who object to some moderation action, no matter what the scheme is. Allowing them to draw you through the mud can't possible help anything.

    Now, I'm not saying there shouldn't be engagement. And I'm not saying there can't be disagreement or discussion about what the rules are or how to apply them, but I think it's clear that the moderators get too involved and therefore too personally invested in specific moderator actions. The more they do that, the more surface area of themselves they are exposing to scrutiny.

    Eliminating the mod's personal bias should not be the number one goal of choosing a modding philosophy (which is unique to each mod), it should be to maximally enhance fairness, whatever modding philosophy on how to do that he is working with.
    Part of fairness is that people have a chance to understand how their actions can induce moderation. It is hardly fair to enforce rules that people can't know about. So unless bsh1 is going to provide a post each tell that tells us how he is feeling that day and what his level of tolerance for specific types of behavior, then I think it'd be best to just stick to the rules. The CoC is the only thing users have to go on when it comes to understanding what is acceptable behavior. The only fair way to moderate, then, is to moderate based on those rules.

    If the rules themselves are unfair, then they should be changed. I'll note that this is a common conflation. What the rules are is a separate issue from how they should be enforced. Saying that the rules should be enforced is not saying that I agree with whatever the rules happen to be at that time. What it does mean is that, if there is some issue with the rules then we should change what those rules are and have the mods enforce those new rules, rather than depending upon the mods to take it upon themselves to selectively ignore the CoC.

    And yes, bs1h sucks at modding.

  • Wylted
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    --> @drafterman
    I'm not advocating he mod's based on his mood. I was advocating for him to mod based on a broader sense of justice in respect to what the Coc in shorthand is attempting to encapsulate. That's the only thing I'll comment on. I think we both are aware of where we stand on the issue and that we are just going to go in circles without making much progress in this conversation.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Wylted
    My life doesn't revolve around being allowed to post on forums. 
  • Wylted
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    --> @drafterman
    the rules themselves are unfair, then they should be changed. I'll note that this is a common conflation. What the rules are is a separate issue from how they should be enforced. Saying that the rules should be enforced is not saying that I agree with whatever the rules happen to be at that time. What it does mean is that, if there is some issue with the rules then we should change what those rules are and have the mods enforce those new rules, rather than depending upon the mods to take it upon themselves to selectively ignore the CoC.


    I think that is where the crux of our disagreement is. I don't know why you would enforce unjust rules. If a rule is unfair I think the authority in charge of enforcing that rule is morally obligated to ignore it. Changing rules is not always something that authority figure can do, but they are morally obligated to ignore it. You know, kinda like how people ignored the harboring slave laws, who participated in the underground railroad.
  • Wylted
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    You are in the minority on Dart in that case
  • drafterman
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    --> @Wylted
    I think that is where the crux of our disagreement is. I don't know why you would enforce unjust rules. If a rule is unfair I think the authority in charge of enforcing that rule is morally obligated to ignore it. Changing rules is not always something that authority figure can do, but they are morally obligated to ignore it. You know, kinda like how people ignored the harboring slave laws, who participated in the underground railroad.
    Changing the rules is always something the mods can do here. The CoC is literally whatever bsh1 wants it to be. He can change it, unilaterally, at any time, for any reason.

    At no point have I ever said that unjust rules should be enforced. Never. What I am saying is that the solution to unjust rules - here on this site - is to change the rule, not place our faith in a specific moderator.
  • Wylted
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    --> @drafterman
    Changing the rules is always something the mods can do here. The CoC is literally whatever bsh1 wants it to be. He can change it, unilaterally, at any time, for any reason.
    Fair enough. I was unaware he could.
  • ethang5
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    I was unaware he could.
    You missed when he declared himself God of Dart?
  • Goldtop
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    --> @drafterman
    And yes, bs1h sucks at modding.
    I couldn't agree with you more, however in defense of Bsh, this is his first time moderating a forum. So, the issue is not really Bsh per se, but instead the back room shenanigans that made him moderator.

  • Wylted
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    I like how 90% of the idiots from DDO migrated here but only like 5% of the smart people. Can we fix this somehow?
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Wylted
    Leave and it may get better.
  • Goldtop
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    Leave and it may get better
    Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle?

    Its funny how you cry about being bullied but then go and bully other folks yourself, How does that work Mr Pot?

  • Ramshutu
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    Wait, so there is a freakout from a bunch of people about some moderator decision, and they are now raging out over multiple threads about how Grupenfuhrer moderator is being unfair and trampling over free speech.

    I’ve totally never ever seen that in any other discussion forum or website...

  • Tyronebiggs
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    --> @RationalMadman
    I assume wylted is black if you is telling him to leave. The racists on this site be crazy
  • ethang5
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    I like how 90% of the idiots from DDO migrated here.....

    I just had to repost this.

  • Goldtop
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    --> @ethang5
    Are you boasting about being in the majority?
  • Tyronebiggs
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    --> @Goldtop
    I like you more after every post you make. You are spot on my homie.
  • Wylted
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    --> @Tyronebiggs
    I assume wylted is black if you is telling him to leave. The racists on this site be crazy
    You assume correctly