A call for moderation transparency

Author: TheHammer ,

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  • TheHammer
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    It's come to my attention that a thread was recently deleted where someone in crude blackface claimed to be thett3's friend Tyrone. While I was disgusted and disturbed by the contents, I find it hard to decipher why exactly moderation thought it was appropriate to delete the whole thread. So far as I can tell there was nothing in violation of the TOS.

  • TheHammer
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    --> @bsh1 @David
    Would love to get a response ASAP
  • Wylted
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    There was nothing in violation of the TOS. This is the second decision I have seen from BSH1 that was ignorant. The first was banning Tyronebiggs with no explanation.
  • bsh1
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    --> @TheHammer
    Sure. Several reasons. 

    First, Tyrone and various accounts claiming to be him have been engaging in spam posts and threads. All or almost all of these spam threads and posts were centered around claims of who the "real Tyrone" was/is. This was just one example. Second, blackface, while not a verbal act, is, as an act of expression, definable as hate speech. I think we can all agree, and it seems like you, yourself, would agree also, that blackface is extraordinarily offensive, and is, in effect, invective, where invective is understood as abusive expression or speech [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invective]. Thirdly, the disturbing nature of the content constitutes it as extreme trolling.
  • Wylted
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    This thread will probably be deleted also.
  • Wylted
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    --> @bsh1
    You are now asserting your will over the community and trying to groom the site to your liking. Your job is to moderate and it is a stretch to call that thread a violation of the COC. You need to step down and let virtuous do the modding job alone. You are clearly not competent enough to handle it.
  • thett3
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    --> @bsh1
    i can confirm to you that none of these people are the real Tyrone, who is out of town for a wedding. i will confirm with you if/when he joins 

    it goes without saying, but i disavow the extreme content of the video. idk what makes people think this kind of thing is okay, but it simply is not. that said, i dont think it violated the tos 
  • Wylted
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    What type of ignorant shit is that. Just deleting stuff with no warning, banning people with no explanation. Step Down BSH1, I'll find whiteflame and get him back here or something but this level of incompetence is just too much. It can not continue.
  • Wylted
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    Now BSH1 is trying to control whether people wear black facepaint or not. fucking ignorant
  • Buddamoose
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    --> @bsh1
    I think we can all agree

    no, actually, we can't, that's the whole point of debating, because we dont all agree ya dingus 😂.
  • bsh1
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    --> @thett3
    it goes without saying, but i disavow the extreme content of the video. idk what makes people think this kind of thing is okay, but it simply is not. that said, i dont think it violated the tos 
    That's fair. Not everyone is gonna agree with me, but I feel fairly comfortable in my position. But I am always willing to explain myself and my decisions. If the real Tyrone wishes to join, I am sure he will be welcomed, including by myself.

  • Buddamoose
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    This is precisely why the "hate speech" section is garb. Because it says, now we don't want it to just mean anything, then lays out parameters that make it so it can mean anything. And this will keep popping up as an issue, until its removed. 


    _________________

    On another note

    that blackface is extraordinarilyoffensive,

    A personal attack is not "anything directed at a person that they find to be unfavorable.”

    Have to wonder what being offensive has anything to do with it. Almost as if it actually is a metric being used.....

    hrmmmmm...

    this inconsistency is offensive to the sensibilities, somebody please ban it!

  • Wylted
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    The whole cowardly operating in secret removing a post here secretly editing a post there, and making threads and people dissapear bears a striking resemblance to what happened in Nazi Germany. If this doesn't end by Sunday, and if we don't have a competent mod by Sunday, I will hire some indians for $5 an hour to bust out a clone of DDO, and spend several thousand in ads recruiting enough people interested in debate to have a very active site. This site is going down hill, and I am disappointed in Mike for his selection of head moderator
  • Buddamoose
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    --> @Wylted
    Simmer down with Godwins law, it's not that bad, it's just typical namby pamby leftbook stuff. Gonna say them threats we're not a good idea though. You just couldn't help urself could you? 😂😂😂

  • Buddamoose
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    --> @Wylted
    This site is going down hill,

    Hey now, being that there hasnt really been a whole effton of new members, dont you think its kinda hard to go downhill when its not begun really climbing yet? 

    Is something troubling you beside the thread deletion? 😐
  • Wylted
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    --> @Buddamoose
    Simmer down with Godwins law, it's not that bad, it's just typical namby pamby leftbook stuff. Gonna say them threats we're not a good idea though. You just couldn't help urself could you? 😂😂😂

    I don't care. It would cost me less than $500 to clone the important parts of DDO and $1000 in ads to have it heavily populated with people who predominately have IQs in the top 5%.  The speech is getting over regulated and annoying. I thought DDO was too Laisse Faire but now we are regulating whether people can post videos of themselves or others in facepaint.Everything you said is true though
  • Wylted
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    --> @Buddamoose
    That thread, I really wanted to see where it would go. I wanted to see the great debates that would spark from it. I think 10 members saw the video and now it will fizzle out and the 20 quality debates and 30 quality reaction threads it would have sparked will never come to fruition.
  • Buddamoose
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    --> @Wylted
     I think 10 members saw the video and now it will fizzle out and the 20 quality debates and 30 quality reaction threads it would have sparked will never come to fruition. 

    I too like counting my chickens before they hatch 😉😂
  • Wylted
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    --> @Buddamoose
    Hopefully somebody figures out BSH1's sleep schedule so the next video with the potential to breathe life blood into this site will be able to work it's magic.
  • Wylted
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    Anyone who wants to see the black face video and hasn't can PM me for the link. It is on my liked videos on facebook, so I'm sure I can find it.
  • armoredcat
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    --> @Wylted
    The whole cowardly operating in secret removing a post here secretly editing a post there, and making threads and people dissapear bears a striking resemblance to what happened in Nazi Germany.
    No it doesn't actually. Either you're trolling or self righteous. 

    You know that Tyrone was created by thett to make fun of black people. Stop denying it.
  • Castin
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    --> @bsh1
    If you hadn't banned the Tyrone impostor or done anything about the thread, you'd just have a different group of people bitching that you let things get out of hand without taking action.

    But bish, I notice that the decisions of yours that get the most heat in general are the ones that involve censorship or secrecy. People are naturally suspicious of what you withhold from them. Note that through all these criticisms, your explanations and reasons haven't mattered to people as much as your actions themselves. Making a few concessions to transparency might save you a lot of grief.
  • bsh1
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    --> @Castin
    Making a few concessions to transparency might save you a lot of grief. 
    I'd be open to doing that if there were some reasonable, concrete things that people wanted me to do to be more transparent. I am open to suggestions.

  • Castin
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    --> @bsh1
    Making a few concessions to transparency might save you a lot of grief. 
    I'd be open to doing that if there were some reasonable, concrete things that people wanted me to do to be more transparent. I am open to suggestions.
    - Relax the mod PM rule so that it's only prohibited to post a mod's PM without notice if it exposes information about another user. In all other cases let people post mod PMs without having to notify you to give you a preparatory advantage.

    - Consider locking threads instead of deleting them. Individual offensive posts within the thread can still be deleted. Destroying evidence and records always strikes people as suppression. Doesn't matter what the reasons are.

    - Relax your policy of conducting mod actions "behind closed doors", so to speak. You do this to protect member privacy, but your problem is you're not on a forum that values member privacy more than transparency, you're on a forum that values transparency more than member privacy. Which means your priorities are at odds with the priorities of your base. Jmo. Start telling people why members were banned, if they ask. If this is already your policy, I apologize. I thought mod actions were currently private unless the subject of the action chose to share the information.

    Just off the top of my head. I don't know how reasonable or concrete they are. But they were honest attempts at actionable suggestions.

    When you ban someone, people don't want to hear "that's classified", they want the scoop. When you send them a PM censuring their behavior, they want to show it to people as it is and say "look guys, do you think this is fair". And even when a thread totally crosses the line, they still want to read it for themselves.

  • David
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    --> @Castin
    This is exactly why I supported a public ban log.