Should saying something pro life be classified as "mysoginist hate speech towards women"?

Author: TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog
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I just want to see how far SJWs are willing to go. 

Would you ban a pro lifer for hate speech?  What about someone that opposes BLM?  Is that now hate speech towards black people?  Is misgendering based on the belief that there are more than 2 genders now hate speech towards transgenders?  Is believing that marriage is between a man and a woman now hate speech towards gays?

All of the positions I stated are backed by significant portions of the US population.  If you make it illegal to say these things and punish them for it, it would lead to mass incarceration.  Given how much the left wants to reduce our prison population and they blame the war on drugs (even though drugs only account for 15% of why people are in jail), it would be surprising that they want to ban and jail ANYONE for speech given how much they want to reduce the prisoner population.

But don't expect extreme people (from either side) to be principled with what they want done.  Both sides just want to appeal to their base by getting more extreme.

If your like normal America, I recommend watching the video below:

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@TheUnderdog
Don't expect hypocrisy to stop the Left from their crusade to topple Western civilization.
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@TheUnderdog
One hundred percent straw, man.

I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
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@oromagi
I've seen people advocate for banning pro lifers, for banning people who believe marriage is between a man and a woman.  I've met plenty of people that are fine with someone getting beat up for misgendering.  An entire family personally hates me for being open about my disapproval of BLM.  

The left (and the right) is polarizing this country and we are heading towards a civil war.

I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
Social justice is very vague and people shouldn't back vague causes.  SJWs believe in hating anybody who is even the slightest bit right of center.


It's also why I don't agree with the MAGA crowd.  Everyone wants America to be better.  But if your definition of making America better is by building a wall to keep taxpayers out, there will be decent people that oppose that.

Similarly, if your definition of, "social justice" is vehemently hating anybody who disagrees with even one tenant of left leaning theory, then normal people are going to disapprove of SJW theory.

Here are some examples of SJWs:



If your left of center, that's fine.  I may disagree with some of your takes but in a free society people can disagree.  The links I mentioned weren't moderate lefties.  They were SJWs.
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@oromagi
I don't know the difference between censoring Richard Spencer and censoring Lila Rose, or censoring Colin Kaepernick.  The only difference is how popular their ideas are.  White nationalism isn't that popular, but being pro life is much more popular than that.

In reality, it shouldn't matter how popular an idea is; all ideas should be allowed to be said without fear of being cancelled by everyday Americans.
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-->@oromagi
I've seen people advocate for banning pro lifers, for banning people who believe marriage is between a man and a woman.  I've met plenty of people that are fine with someone getting beat up for misgendering.  An entire family personally hates me for being open about my disapproval of BLM.  
It is impossible to evaluate such generalities and certainly not in keeping with my experience.  If you give me a specific case of some institution banning people for PRO life opinion, we can evaluate that case on its merits.  Otherwise, it just sounds like more FOX News grievance bullshit.

The left (and the right) is polarizing this country and we are heading towards a civil war.
And yet only a tiny group of right wingers who get their news from Russian posts on Facebook and Fox News and infowars are talking about civil war. Only one political wing is shrinking rapidly and is thinking about Civil War as a desperate effort to maintain power.  The rest of America, most of America, is talking about infrastructure, voting rights, improving education, improving healthcare, etc.
I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
Social justice is very vague and people shouldn't back vague causes. 
Liberty is vague... may I assume that you are anti-freedom?
The pursuit of happiness is vague....may I assume you don't advocate the Declaration of Independence?

Believing in social justice means  believing that society works best when society is fair and reasonable.  I think America was invented to promote social justice and that you're not really on board with the American project unless you think American society should be fair and reasonable.


SJWs believe in hating anybody who is even the slightest bit right of center.
Well, SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR was a term invented by the alt-right during the gamergate controversy as a term of derision.  If you are wondering who is hating who, a good place to start is who is making up the derisive terms.  That fact alone tells us much about who is doing the hating.

Looks like every dude who attacked our Nation's Capitol on Jan 6th.  When the alt-Right invented the term, it was decidedly projected at feminists and I always picture a woman when the alt-Righters use the term.

Similarly, if your definition of, "social justice" is vehemently hating anybody who disagrees with even one tenant of left leaning theory,
I have never seen a single solitary person ever use this definition of Social Justice Warrior.

then normal people are going to disapprove of SJW theory.
There is nothing to your IF so there is nothing to your THEN.

Here is the problem and it has nothing to do with the left.  You are being lied to and you are willingly and unquestioningly believing those lies.  You, Alec, have a responsibility to check these facts and your failure to do so has led you to believe a lot of things about America and Americans that are simply not true.

mediabiasfactcheck.
Analysis / Bias
In review, PJ Media is a popular conservative news and opinion website that garners 13 million+ page views per month. PJ Media uses moderately loaded emotional language in their articles that favor the right, such as this: Suspended Pentagon Whistleblower Says FBI’s Russia Probe Was ‘All a Set-Up.’ When it comes to the sourcing of information, they usually use credible right-leaning media sources. However, they also use poor sources such as Jihad Watch, which has been labeled a hate group by the SPLC. Almost all stories reviewed favored the right and denigrated the left through wording and story selection.
Failed Fact Checks
Overall, we rate PJ Media to be Questionable based on extreme right-wing bias, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies, as well as numerous failed fact checks
Fact checkers like Snopes and Politifact shoot down Pajamas Media and Senior Editor Tyler O'Neil all the time.  Look with your own eyes at the mentally ill Army Vet being harrassed by O'Neil in the video.  Look at his ZZ Top beard and unkempt hair.  If this is representative of the kind of people who you have a problem with than you are just picking on sad loners.  This dude does not represent any kind of political movement and to make a newspaper article about provoking him is just cruel and selfish.

RT stands for RUSSIA TODAY.

"RT (formerly Russia Today) is a Russian state-controlled international television network funded by the federal tax budget of the Russian government"

This is a classic example of Putin's propaganda attack on our country and the way the right-wing blindly helps Putin attack us.  You should always check all of your sources for links to  Russian Intelligence but if you are using Russia Today as your source then you are broadcasting that you are not even trying to vet your sources.  Please stop spreading enemy propaganda in your country.

Just look at how your opinion is being manipulated here.  Jamil Smith argues that the term pro-life should be retired like the Redskins name or Aunt Jemima. Russia turn that into "they're trying to ban us!" and you fall for that lie.  Why?

I think you should work much harder at finding truthful sources, at least ones that aren't actively trying to bring your country down.


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I don't know the difference between censoring Richard Spencer and censoring Lila Rose, or censoring Colin Kaepernick. 

I have never heard of Lila Rose but I've never seen any evidence of Ricard Spencer or Colin Kaepernick being censored. 

The only difference is how popular their ideas are.  White nationalism isn't that popular, but being pro life is much more popular than that.
White Nationalism is enjoying it greatest popularity since the 1950's according to the FBI.  

In reality, it shouldn't matter how popular an idea is; all ideas should be allowed to be said without fear of being cancelled by everyday Americans.
I think FOX News has taught you to bitch and moan about every  opposing argument as censorship.  Kaepernick is not being censored- the NFL and team owners have a right to not hire a guy because he's too political or whatever.  Trump certainly wanted to censor him but our Constitution kept him from doing that.  Kaepernick is a free man with a perfect right to say whatever he wants- that is how you can tell he is not being censored.  I'm sure your definitions of censorship regarding Spencer and Rose are likewise overwrought and inaccurate.

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@TheUnderdog
lol thats literally what the average alt-right incel on 4chan and or reddit looks like
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But what the difference between censoring a pro lifer and censoring a white supremist?  Is it the popularity of their views (being pro life is backed by many people whereas white supremacy is backed by few)?  Because I don't think popularity of views should matter.
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@TheUnderdog
Would you ban a pro lifer for hate speech?  What about someone that opposes BLM?  Is that now hate speech towards black people?  Is misgendering based on the belief that there are more than 2 genders now hate speech towards transgenders?  Is believing that marriage is between a man and a woman now hate speech towards gays?

Stop with this shit. You are literally letting liberals co trol your worldview and you are a conservative within their framework.

It's one thing to appeal to their biases in debate, but your world view is literally just what fits within the framework they created for you
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@oromagi
Liberty is vague... may I assume that you are anti-freedom?
The pursuit of happiness is vague....may I assume you don't advocate the Declaration of Independence?

Believing in social justice means believing that society works best when society is fair and reasonable. I think America was invented to promote social justice and that you're not really on board with the American project unless you think American society should be fair and reasonable.
Isn't the Declaration of Independence and the American project fundamentally a product of white supremacy? How can a racist system invented by white men for white men promote social justice?
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@TheUnderdog
But what the difference between censoring a pro lifer and censoring a white supremist? 
I don't see much evidence of censorship of either ideology.

Is it the popularity of their views (being pro life is backed by many people whereas white supremacy is backed by few)? 
Well, we should note that there is significant overlap between the groups- the anti-abortion movement among US Protestants grew directly out popular white supremacy.  19% of Americans believe that abortion should be illegal in the US.  9% of Americans identify as White Nationalist and I assume the overwhelming majority of those are also anti-abortion but 28% of Americans polled thought Trump did a good job of handing the Unite the Right Rally (and what did Trump do except call some White Supremacists good people?)  I think that 28% is closer to accurate and I assume the overwhelming majority of anti-abortion folks fit into that softer group of people who do not condemn White Nationalism.  I don't see much evidence of tolerance for ideological divergence on the Right.



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@oromagi
Social justice, so called, has become something altogether different that it may have been understood say 100 years ago, because 200 years ago, 230 years ago, plus, to be more accurate, it was different still, as understood by Jimmy Madison and his essay/experiment in practical government. So, to which version do you adhere? The BLM version? Just since that's the latest version, and we seem to prefer, socially, to currency? I still trust my friend, Jimmy, because his version spoke to better angels in us. That justice is not nearly so demanding that it be meted out by force, and particularly because it depended on evidence, and not street justice by selfie.
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Oops, Fruit_Inspector, you've stumbled into a liberal hypocrasy. Not to worry, they have rationalizations complete with links.
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Oops, Fruit_Inspector, you've stumbled into a liberal hypocrasy. Not to worry, they have rationalizations complete with links.
Hi, Ethan.  Nice to see you return.
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@oromagi
One hundred percent straw, man.

I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
He's not strawmanning anyone lol. He's literally wanting to know: "I just want to see how far SJWs are willing to go." So, he's implicitly unsure of SJW positions, hence he asks how far you're willing to go.

People are against "social justice" because it's extremist and cult-like. Some people don't fall for your euphemistic label of "social justice" because it's:
- anti-free speech
- anti-white
- allowing transgenderism for children
- allowing sky-high taxation
- authoritarian with views of knowledge
- heavily invested in grievance/block politics
- in favor of heavy government intervention
etc.

So, TheUnderdog is 100% right in asking SJWs how far they will go with "hate speech" because SJWs believe in anti-free speech laws/regulations, he's just not sure if they will go that far.

Thus, your accusation of his question being a "strawman" is in itself a strawman.

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Conservatives need to stop defending Fox News and these conservative grifters, and instead be critical of ALL legacy media. These people talk, and talk, and talk, but they never get anything done or changed, despite having an inordinate amount of power and influence.

Groypers showed that some of these "conservative" politicians/pundits don't give a damn about doing things that will actually get conservative views put in place. That's why "conservative" people like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro don't care at all about the problems White countries are facing, but will happily spout conservative talking points all day Ben Shapiro, Conservative Inc, and the "Groyper" War of 2019 - YouTube .

If you actually want to reinstate free-speech (which is a good idea), then you need to start supporting people who are actually attempting to get things done, NOT these grifter types that only spout the talking points. Say what you like about Nick Fuentes (I'm sure people like Oromagi have some worthless ad homs to call him), but his Groyper movement exposed these fraudulent "conservative" grifters for what they are.
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Liberty is vague... may I assume that you are anti-freedom?
The pursuit of happiness is vague....may I assume you don't advocate the Declaration of Independence?

Believing in social justice means believing that society works best when society is fair and reasonable. I think America was invented to promote social justice and that you're not really on board with the American project unless you think American society should be fair and reasonable.
Isn't the Declaration of Independence and the American project fundamentally a product of white supremacy?   How can a racist system invented by white men for white men promote social justice?
Well, there's a who lot of racist systems that succeed in  promoting social justice.  The Roman Catholic Church, for example, is a very racist system that promotes quite a lot of social justice.   Hell, Christianity itself.   Jesus and the 12 Apostles were Jewish Supremacists, absolutely believing that their race was chosen by God above all others, yet I'd argue that many fair and reasonable acts have preceded from remembering the Sermon on the Mount.  I think it possible for great human projects to be invented by imperfect humans and still be great.  We can have no doubt that Franklin and Jefferson understood they were expanding the franchise when they authored the line "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created equal."  Even then, Franklin and Jefferson explicitly understood that they were hypocritically degrading some of their fellow men but the whole wealth of the nation was caught up in slavery.  Franklin wrote that slavery must die in the next generation and Jefferson condemned slavery as an "abominable crime" which he happened to commit every day of his life as the price of great wealth. 

Similarly,  we today understand that our use of fossil fuels and plastic is not just unsustainable but actively endangering our future, yet we hypocritically persist in these uses for convenience's sake while teaching our children better practice, while hoping for a more fair and reasonable energy solution in the next generation.  Our descendants will surely fault our moral weakness and economic dependence on such ruinous habits but that should not prevent us from working on the project. 

Franklin and Jefferson may not have seen the future clearly or understood how to achieve that future but they were confident that a great nation could proceed from that one radical assertion.
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Social justice, so called, has become something altogether different that it may have been understood say 100 years ago, because 200 years ago, 230 years ago, plus, to be more accurate, it was different still, as understood by Jimmy Madison and his essay/experiment in practical government. So, to which version do you adhere? The BLM version? Just since that's the latest version, and we seem to prefer, socially, to currency? I still trust my friend, Jimmy, because his version spoke to better angels in us. That justice is not nearly so demanding that it be meted out by force, and particularly because it depended on evidence, and not street justice by selfie.
You write like fauxlaw.

I would not say that social justice is "altogether different."  What is fair has always been, as Franklin put it , self-evident.  What is reasonable changes as each achievement build on former successes. 

Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people.

I don't accept that BLM has a different version of social justice than the Founding Fathers, who would still have opposed government brutality and racial violence as unjust.
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@oromagi
the Founding Fathers, who would still have opposed government brutality and racial violence as unjust.
eh many of them were white supremacists and only wanted land owning white males to be able to vote
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@oromagi
You write like fauxlaw.
he likely is especially when you look at some of his other posts
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One hundred percent straw, man.

I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
He's not strawmanning anyone lol.
He's arguing that SJWs should not ban speech.   When I asked for specifics he literally gave me Russian clickbait for Fox viewers and no evidence of anybody banning anybody.   Alec's subject remains undefined.  You can't just say SJWs because that's an alt-Right term of denigration- it like just saying "assholes" - assholes should not ban speech.  It's not really arguable until the derogatory is filled in with some specific set of people banning something specifically.  If there's not ban, if there's no people banning people, then Alec's argument is straw.

Ultimately, this topic is still waiting for Alec to define his subject.

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@oromagi
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One hundred percent straw, man.

I notice you are characterizing people who advocate for social justice as extremists.  Why would any good citizen be against social justice?
He's not strawmanning anyone lol.
He's arguing that SJWs should not ban speech.   When I asked for specifics he literally gave me Russian clickbait for Fox viewers and no evidence of anybody banning anybody.   Alec's subject remains undefined.
None of this was specified in the OP, to which you replied. Hence, you called the OP a strawman *before* TheUnderdog clarified, thereby making your criticism a strawman.

You can't just say SJWs because that's an alt-Right term of denigration
You're a massive hypocrite then because you've called white scientists "white supremacists" IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) , which is just an extremist far-left term of denigration.

Stop being a hypocrite. Either you stop using these derogatory terms, or we keep using them and you stop crying like a little girl, princess.

Ultimately, this topic is still waiting for Alec to define his subject.
Ultimately, you're an anti-white far-left extremist who cries when you receive the same vitriol you spew.

Grow a spine, jelly.
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Say what you like about Nick Fuentes (I'm sure people like Oromagi have some worthless ad homs to call him
The 18 year old pimply faced incel cunt who took a quarter million in foreign money to attack our Nation's capitol and then turned FBI informant on the rest of his groypers?  How about god-damned  traitor twice over?

Here's  Fuentes advocating for the murder of Republican politicians who wouldn't go along with Trump's Putsch:
"What can you and I do to a state legislator — besides kill them? We should not do that. I'm not advising that, but I mean, what else can you do, right?"

Here's what that treasonous lying fuck had to say about America this week:  "The Taliban is a conservative, religious force, the US is godless and liberal. The defeat of the US government in Afghanistan is unequivocally a positive development."

Is there anybody your role model hasn't recently betrayed?
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Say what you like about Nick Fuentes (I'm sure people like Oromagi have some worthless ad homs to call him
The 18 year old pimply faced incel cunt who took a quarter million in foreign money to attack our Nation's capitol and then turned FBI informant on the rest of his groypers?  How about god-damned  traitor twice over?

Here's  Fuentes advocating for the murder of Republican politicians who wouldn't go along with Trump Putsch:
"What can you and I do to a state legislator — besides kill them? We should not do that. I'm not advising that, but I mean, what else can you do, right?"

Here's what that treasonous lying fuck had to say about America this week:  "The Taliban is a conservative, religious force, the US is godless and liberal. The defeat of the US government in Afghanistan is unequivocally a positive development."

Is there anybody your role model hasn't recently betrayed?
Lol. Thanks for making my prediction come true, you useful idiot.

My point had nothing to do with who Nick Fuentes is. My point was that his groypers exposed how "conservatives" don't exactly believe in these views -- they just espouse them. That was it. But like the useful idiot you are, you decided to Ad hom Nick just like I said you would.

The funniest thing about you is that you cry when you get called nasty labels: "You can't just say SJWs because that's an alt-Right term of denigration", but you willfully engage in it yourself: "The 18 year old pimply faced incel cunt".

You're just a massive hypocrite looking for an excuse to spout anti-white hatred and I'm glad your full colors are on display here.

You SJW :)
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@oromagi
How exactly are you defining social justice? And is there a difference between justice and social justice?
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@oromagi
Thanks Oro.
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I don't believe in banning any speech unless it would cause immediate harm like yelling fire in a crowded theater. I do however do not think they should be able to block access to a clinic or intimidate people going into a clinic. That is actually trying to restrict or intimidate people from seeking a service that is legal. 
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@Mesmer

My point had nothing to do with who Nick Fuentes is.
Your point wasn't addressed to me or to this topic.  You were addressing conservatives and appealing for further radicalization.  FOX News, Ben Shapiro, Donald Trump- they are now the RINO left and will be purged when the great storm comes.  All of which seems pretty non-sequitur.

You invited us (and me particularly) to say what we want about little boys who hate so much they drop out of school and try to kill their country.  So I did.
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How exactly are you defining social justice? And is there a difference between justice and social justice?
Alec raised the term and should probably be the one to define it as the subject of his topic but I'd say that social is an adjective modifying the scale and  context of justice- justice at the community level- fairness and reason in the workplace, in education, in the courts, etc.