Cat Math

Author: Greyparrot

Posts

Total: 14
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,543
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
If you add one Schrodinger cat in a box with another, then does 1+1 = some undetermined value between 0 and 2?
Sum1hugme
Sum1hugme's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 1,014
4
4
9
Sum1hugme's avatar
Sum1hugme
4
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
There's always going to be two cats in the box, the superposition of states applies to whether or not the cat is dead. 
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,973
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
No, you see 2 cats, either alive or dead.

Schrödinger's cat: a cat, a flask of poison, and a radioactive source are placed in a sealed box. If an internal monitor (e.g. Geiger counter) detects radioactivity (i.e. a single atom decaying), the flask is shattered, releasing the poison, which kills the cat. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics implies that after a while, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead. Yet, when one looks in the box, one sees the cat either alive or dead, not both alive and dead. This poses the question of when exactly quantum superposition ends and reality resolves into one possibility or the other.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,543
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
ok.. one live cat with one live cat then.

one live cat + one live cat = some undetermined number between 0 and 2.
Ramshutu
Ramshutu's avatar
Debates: 43
Posts: 2,768
6
9
10
Ramshutu's avatar
Ramshutu
6
9
10
If you add one Schrodinger cat in a box with another, then does 1+1 = some undetermined value between 0 and 2?
If you have two cats in the same box (IE: both alive or both dead), then the number of live cats in the box is both 0 and 2 at the same time.

If you have two independently controlled boxes, then the number of live cats in the box are both 0, 1 and 2 at the same time.

Superposition means both states are true at the same time
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@Greyparrot
@Sum1hugme
Good point, but even if the cat[s] are dead, they are still in the box and can be counted as such. A condition that is not considered by Greyparrot is if the cats are different sexes, and reproduce. Time is not a given factor, so the addition of a generation of offspring is an allowed condition that spoils the math proposed.
So, no, 1+1 may not necessarily yield 0-2.
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Unless there are two boxes with two separate air supplies both cats will collapse into the same superposition. Even in their quantum state you have either two live cats or two dead cats. What is undetermined is which state they will be in when the box is opened. Quantum physics is counterintuitive. 
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,198
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@secularmerlin
What is undetermined is which state they will be in when the box is opened. Quantum physics is counterintuitive.
"counter intuitive" only because we do not know the underlying, ultra-micro mechanisms  of existence and I'm referring specifically to Gravity and Dark Energy.

Mapping these two's  ultra-large ---ergo ultra-complex---   set of interrelationships, even it were possible, would be beyond any array of quantum computer abilities, is my best guess.  Maybe if they ran for a few 100,000 years. I dunno. Is there any race of intelligent beings that would keep a huge array of quantum computers running for 100,000's of years, or longer?


Here is my guess, any  intelligent, mind accessing creatures ---like humans--- are always to smart for their britches and go extinct on any Rare Earth-like planet they take hold of in the simple-to-complex evolutionary pathways.

A repeating dead end every time.  Watch this lady's scenario, ---on TED---   that is based on some of  oldest know life found on Earth, in Australia, that she discovered.







 
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Quantum mechanics are based on empirical experiences. Math is not. However, if you put a cake and another on a table, you can't really disprove that there isn't 0 cakes on the table when you are not observing it by any means.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,543
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
I find it interesting that the only validity that can be given to math is the narrow snapshot of time in which objects are observed.
MarkWebberFan
MarkWebberFan's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 291
1
2
6
MarkWebberFan's avatar
MarkWebberFan
1
2
6
What's a good secondary source for this? Not looking to read the actual papers, only interested in commentary
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Greyparrot
No. Math is logically objective. A number is equal to itself no matter what earth you are on. Math can be used to record the number of cakes on the table, and the number of cakes on the table is the one that may change, not math itself.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Intelligence_06
That which equates to Math is the constant, even if it might change.

Math itself is human data assessment relative to something........Always subject to the possibility of extinction.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,543
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
quantum math sorry