Piles of Gold or Golden Piles?

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1 Samuel 6:1-5 KJV - And the ark of the LORD was in the - Bible Gateway

11.20.2021 08:47PM

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11.20.2021 08:47PM

Can a bible story really get more silly?

The Philistines had captured the Ark from the Israelites and it had been in their possession some months and had caused al kinds of damage to the local citizenry; they simply didn't know how it worked or how to use it? So decided it must be returned.

1 Samuel

6 And the ark of the Lord was in the country of the Philistines seven months.

2 And the Philistines called for the priests and the diviners, saying, What shall we do to the ark of the Lord? tell us wherewith we shall send it to his place.

3 And they said, If ye send away the ark of the God of Israel, send it not empty; but in any wise return him a trespass offering: then ye shall be healed, and it shall be known to you why his hand is not removed from you.

4 Then said they, What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice, according to the number of the lords of the Philistines: for one plague was on you all, and on your lords.

5 Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods, and from off your land. King James Version (KJV)

Bible Dictionary

Emerods Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary (biblestudytools.com)

What did they think god or the Israelites were going to do with these piles of gold... eat them?

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11.20.2021 09:36PM

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@Stephen

Yes, in one of the rounds of fighting between the Israelites and the Philistines, the Israelites decided to deploy an unconventional weapon – the Ark of the Covenant. According to 1 Samuel, the ark was brought to the battlefield, but the outcome was catastrophic. The Israelite army was defeated and the ark fell into enemy hands. The Philistines took it to Ashdod and placed it next to a statue of their god, Dagon.

But the ark was to have its revenge: The statue fell, its hands were cut off, and the Philistines were struck with a plague of hemorrhoids. In their despair, they sent the ark back up north to Israel. The people of Kiryat Yearim were summoned to pick it up: “And the men of Kiriath-Yearim came, and fetched up the ark of the LORD, and brought it into the house of Abinadab in the hill, and sanctified Eleazar his son to keep the ark of the Lord” (1 Sam. 7:1). The ark remained on “the hill” until King David brought it to Jerusalem decades later.

The Bible is laughable isn't it?

#3

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11.21.2021 01:14AM

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@Stephen

What did they think god or the Israelites were going to do with these piles of gold... eat them?

Sin makes people stupid. This is a good example of this, don't you think? And fear does a similar thing as well. Given this was the Philistines trying to remedy the situation, I suspect that they were simply trying to please God in the same way they would their own gods.

I would never have thought that it was for the purpose of eating, so I suspect you are joking, it was obviously a payment - like a ransom. a sacrifice - and peace offering type of thing.

The Philistines had witnesses the awesome power of God and they did not want more judgment. They wanted to be free of it.

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11.21.2021 01:15AM

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@FLRW

Do you think it is a laughing matter for people to be killed and to suffer judgment?

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#5

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Bible Dictionaries - King James Dictionary - Emerods

11.21.2021 07:16AM

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11.21.2021 07:16AM

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@Tradesecret

I would never have thought that it was for the purpose of eating, so I suspect you are joking,

Not at all. I am quite serious.

it was obviously a payment - like a ransom. a sacrifice - and peace offering type of thing.

It could just as well have been an insult? Do you know what these golden "emerods" even were?

Emerods

Tumors; hemorrhoids.But the hand of the LORD was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them with EMERODS, even Ashdod and the coasts thereof. 1 Samuel 1:1

Commonly known as Piles. Piles (haemorrhoids) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

And if this bible dictionary is anything to go by, it could well mean, 'here's you Ark, shuv it up your arse'? Only these Piles were golden haemorrhoids.

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11.21.2021 07:24AM

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@Stephen

Yes Stephen,

The question is what were the purpose of sending then to their enemies - the enemies whose God was beating them to a pulp?

Now you may be right that it was to send another insult - and I suppose that is possible - but highly unlikely.

Or it may be that it was - as cultures did in that day - want to make sure that the offending deity knew exactly what you were you saying sorry for.

Golden Hemorrhoids - were valuable. So hardly an insult. I wouldn't care if you gave me golden insults.

so the notion it was a peace offering makes the most plausible sense.

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#7

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11.21.2021 08:03AM

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11.21.2021 08:03AM

Yes Stephen,

The question is what were the purpose of sending then to their enemies - the enemies whose God was beating them to a pulp?

That isn't totally true, is it. But I won't go into that here. So just for once in your life, I ask you to stay on the topic of the golden hemerobiids.

Now you may be right that it was to send another insult - and I suppose that is possible - but highly unlikely.

[A] Well unless you understand what the priests of Aron did with gold, you are never going to know.

Or it may be that it was - as cultures did in that day - want to make sure that the offending deity knew exactly what you were you saying sorry for.

Unless it wasn't a sorry but an insult.

Golden Hemorrhoids - were valuable.

see [A] above

So hardly an insult.

Then why not simply a gift of gold? Or a herd of goats, . God was partial to having goat sacrificed for him.

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11.21.2021 09:16AM

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@Stephen

Yes Stephen,

The question is what were the purpose of sending then to their enemies - the enemies whose God was beating them to a pulp?
That isn't totally true, is it. But I won't go into that here. So just for once in your life, I ask you to stay on the topic of the golden hemerobiids.

What isn't true? The bible clearly reveals that God was causing the Philistines enough grief to send it home.

Now you may be right that it was to send another insult - and I suppose that is possible - but highly unlikely.

[A] Well unless you understand what the priests of Aron did with gold, you are never going to know.

So go ahead Stephen, why don't you tell us your hidden and secret wisdom.

Or it may be that it was - as cultures did in that day - want to make sure that the offending deity knew exactly what you were you saying sorry for.

Unless it wasn't a sorry but an insult.

Well I did say above it was possible it was an insult, but highly unlikely. I don't know whether it was a sorry. But it certainly is implausible it was an insult.

Golden Hemorrhoids - were valuable.

see [A] above

GOLD is and always has been valuable. Are you suggesting that just because it was in the shape of hemorroids that the gold lost value? Or do you think it was not gold?

So hardly an insult.
Then why not simply a gift of gold? Or a herd of goats, . God was partial to having goat sacrificed for him.

I am sure you have a reason for us Stephen. Culture of that day often made peace offerings in the shape of the disease or curse that happened to them. It is hardly novel. I am happy to wait for your explanation.

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11.21.2021 02:09PM

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@Tradesecret

I think Albert Einstein's quote says it all : “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

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11.21.2021 02:30PM

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11.21.2021 02:30PM

So go ahead Stephen, why don't you tell us your hidden and secret wisdom.

So you have started as you mean to go on.

It's just a complete impossibility for you to have any type of real discussion without any snide slights at all isn't it Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret?

And you should know full well what these ancient Israelite artisan priests used gold for specifically. But I tried to forget and put aside that you really are a bible dunce.

GOLD is and always has been valuable.

True. But why gold? Its not the rarest noble and exotic metal on the planet.

Culture of that day often made peace offerings in the shape of the disease or curse that happened to them.

"often"?

Well that is new to me. Care to expand?

It is hardly novel.

Then care to give us a few biblical examples of these common "offerings of peace" of disease and cursed shaped gifts offered to the enemy?

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11.21.2021 03:50PM

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@Stephen

God had punished the five cities with a medical condition that struck the hidden part of the body -- it was painful and had no external cause (and affected everyone regardless of gender or age). The decision was to return the ark along with a payment, recompense for having taken it, an offering if you will.

The 2 shapes of gold offered symbolized the acknowledging that God was in power -- the hemorrhoids were an admission that the medical plague was from God and the mice symbolized the relative importance of the people - like an insignificant mouse compared to God's realized power.

#12

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11.21.2021 03:57PM

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11.21.2021 03:57PM

It is important to know (and this relates more directly to your question) that the Philistines understood a God character through the lens of their own theology. Gods to them were more like humans, with wants and desires and bodies, so they "paid off" a God thinking it was more powerful (superhuman) than their God, not that its nature was so different.

#13

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11.21.2021 09:11PM

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@FLRW

I think Albert Einstein's quote says it all : “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

I don't think it says it all, at all. Einstein was brilliant in his area of expertise and probably pretty good in other areas too. Yet even Einstein would never suggest that a subjective personal reflection by himself on the word God and the bible says it all.

Einstein would have just as quickly dismissed that idea.

#14

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11.21.2021 09:24PM

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@Stephen

So go ahead Stephen, why don't you tell us your hidden and secret wisdom.

So you have started as you mean to go on.

It's just a complete impossibility for you to have any type of real discussion without any snide slights at all isn't it Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret?

I have responded with kind. Your choice to be snide to me gave me permission to do the same.

So just for once in your life, I ask you to stay on the topic https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7018/post-links/301271

But if you promise to stop with the snide remarks - then I will endeavor to do the same. Ok.

And you should know full well what these ancient Israelite artisan priests used gold for specifically. But I tried to forget and put aside that you really are a bible dunce.

I never made a comment about it either way Stephen. I figured you had a story to tell and I was curious to know what it is.

GOLD is and always has been valuable.

True. But why gold? Its not the rarest noble and exotic metal on the planet.

I never said it was the most valuable. But it is valuable. And it certainly was considered valuable in those times. As I indicated above, it was the local tribal Philistines way of seeking peace with the Jewish God. They naturally would seek to do this in a way according their customs. And they clearly wanted the Jewish God to know who was saying sorry and why. Rosends answers were in accord with what I was suggesting.

Culture of that day often made peace offerings in the shape of the disease or curse that happened to them.

"often"?
Well that is new to me. Care to expand?

Why? I am not about to spend time explaining this - just to have you produce your own story - which conveniently you still have not produced.

It is hardly novel.

Then care to give us a few biblical examples of these common "offerings of peace" of disease and cursed shaped gifts offered to the enemy?

Stephen, this is your topic. You obviously have something you want to tell. Please get on with it. My position has already in essence been corroborated by rosends, though you probably will disagree. But you don't normally start a topic unless you have your own alternative narrative. That after all is one of the primary reasons you continue to frequent this forum. So please - just get on with it.

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#15

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11.22.2021 07:12AM

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@Tradesecret

You obviously have something you want to tell.

Nope. I have something to ask, all of my threads are questions based, "Reverend "Tradey".

How did the enemy of god the Philistines managed to handle and open this golden coffer? It was a deadly piece of weaponry in the wrong hands by all accounts.

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11.22.2021 08:18AM

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@Stephen

Nope. I have something to ask, all of my threads are questions based, "Reverend "Tradey".

How did the enemy of god the Philistines managed to handle and open this golden coffer? It was a deadly piece of weaponry in the wrong hands by all accounts.

There is no evidence that they opened the ark if that what is what you are asking?

#17

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11.22.2021 05:42PM

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11.22.2021 05:42PM

An example of legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. Uzzah with his brother Ahio, drove the cart on which the ark was placed when David sought to bring it up to Jerusalem. When the oxen stumbled, making the ark tilt, Uzzah steadied the ark with his hand, in direct violation of the divine law, and he was immediately killed by the Lord for his error.

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