God and all the white noise

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Posts: 3,353

12.12.2021 10:37PM

The essence of God is his independence. Everything is dependent upon him for everything.

The rest of everything is dependent upon God to exist, to think, to grow, to consider. etc.

Even before the Beginning, God was and is and will be.

When everything else began, and life was good or very good - everything understood and accepted total dependence upon God. The distinctive between God and creation.

God even placed humanity into his home on earth.

Then humanity - through temptation - external temptation, decided it did not need God, even though God had clearly enunciated that without God, he would surely die.

And so God seeing what man wanted gave him the earth to live on. an earth where man could be god and do whatever he wanted. A Humanity without God. He has gone out of his way to show he can be independent. He has increased knowledge. He has increased in number. He has increased in wealth. Yet he has destroyed many things along the way. The world is clearly the evidence of what happens when humanity does things without God.

But death remains the looming inevitability for every human. Human in all of his independence cannot overcome death. He might delay it for a while. But ultimately it comes to everyone. And ultimately death proves that humanity is not independent.

God however did not leave humanity entirely to himself. For every person who is prepared to acknowledge his dependence upon God there is hope and there is life. It is not simply coincidence that God himself became a man as the Christ - living totally dependent upon God the Spirit - to overcome the one thing that humanity has never defeated, death.

Jesus died - but rose again. The evidence for his resurrection is significant. It is the best fit for all of the data available - and alone explains - not only why the tomb was empty, all of the witness testimonies, the disciples' martyrdom, and the exponential growth of the church for the next several hundreds of years.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death. This is God saying - if you want your independence, the cost is death - which ultimately shows you are dependent. If you trust me - then you will have life and life abundantly.

Jesus the savior - reveals implicitly, that all of creation is totally dependent upon God in all things.

The gospel simply tells this story about history.

Everything else - is white noise.

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12.12.2021 11:32PM

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@Tradesecret

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.

Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them."

"So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".

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12.13.2021 12:35AM

I hope you can see it's kind of hard to buy that your God's existed from the very beginning of the universe but he didn't bother to send anybody to help everyone out until Jesus which was literally just over 2,000 years ago. In the meantime he basically let the devil set up a bunch of other religions that are false just to prove his is right? When you talk about God at the very beginning of the universe and then try to relate it to Christ you can see where it looks like God's a basically uninvolved piece of crap. The god of Abraham is not the Creator. Gods are nothing more than evolved beings. The Creator, the source completely different.

And you can't say there's anything such as death if we're eternal. Spirit doesn't die, the body quits working and the spirit leaves the body. We are eternal.

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12.13.2021 02:00AM

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@Tradesecret

humanity - through temptation - external temptation, decided it did not need God, even though God had clearly enunciated that without God, he would surely die.

First, how do you qualify an external temptation? If everything is dependent on God, as you say, then the temptation was ultimately sourced from Him.

Second, when did God say that humanity would surely de without HIm?

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12.13.2021 08:09AM

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@Tradesecret

Depends on what you mean by GOD Trade.

And I'm never quite sure what you do mean by GOD.

It would be helpful if you accompanied such preaching, with a practical explanation of your idea of GOD.

Rather that using loose and undefining ritual speak.....White Noise as it were.

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12.13.2021 10:51AM

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@Tradesecret

Jesus died - but rose again.

A dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! Stop being so silly!

The evidence for his resurrection is significant.

Lets see the "significant evidence" then. Is this the same as your "very clear biblical evidence" that you often spout about for other biblical stories but then fail to produce?

It is the best fit for all of the data available - and alone explains - not only why the tomb was empty,

Been here before Reverend "Tradey". And empty to tomb is only evidence that a tomb was empty. It is not evidence that a dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! And the "available data" is less than scant. No one actually seen or witnessed this "dead" man rise from the "dead" did they? They found the tomb open and empty, remember.

But you should understand all this with you being a fully trained and qualified defence Lawyer, shouldn't you?

And tell me, who rolled away the stone? Why did the stone need to be rolled away in the first place, when we are also being asked to believe that Jesus can walk through walls?

all of the witness testimonies,

All conflicting too. We are spoiled for choice.

the disciples' martyrdom,

Some people dying for their beliefs(if not other reasons) proves exactly what to you?

and the exponential growth of the church for the next several hundreds of years.

Appealing to numbers as any type of evidence that a dead and rotting days old corpse coming back to life doesn't actually mean anything, Reverend "Tradey".

Must do better!

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12.13.2021 10:55AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Gods are nothing more than evolved beings.

You may have hit the post with that comment, Witch.. Can you expand?

FLRW

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FLRW

12.13.2021 04:02PM

Tetra-amelia syndrome is a very rare disorder where a baby is born without any of its limbs. Praise God! Send Jim Bakker $100!

Topic's author

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12.15.2021 12:23AM

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@Stephen

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.

Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them."

"So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".

Absolutely. God regretted. But God loved. Don't forget God loved. I know you want to focus on the negative. But in doing so - you ALWAYS miss half the story. And the best bits at that.

Every Judge regrets sentencing people to prison. But he does that because he knows it is the right thing to do. Not only that - it is because he or she is sympathetic for the victims. You only demonstrate sympathy for the wicked. Your heart seems to line up with the wicked. That Stephen is your problem.

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#10

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Posts: 3,353

12.15.2021 12:25AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

I hope you can see it's kind of hard to buy that your God's existed from the very beginning of the universe but he didn't bother to send anybody to help everyone out until Jesus which was literally just over 2,000 years ago. In the meantime he basically let the devil set up a bunch of other religions that are false just to prove his is right? When you talk about God at the very beginning of the universe and then try to relate it to Christ you can see where it looks like God's a basically uninvolved piece of crap. The god of Abraham is not the Creator. Gods are nothing more than evolved beings. The Creator, the source completely different.

And you can't say there's anything such as death if we're eternal. Spirit doesn't die, the body quits working and the spirit leaves the body. We are eternal.

On the contrary. God sent lots of people through history. People just rejected over and over again. Then he sent his son - people still rejected his son. In fact they killed him too.

This is my point. People want to be independent. Yet they need God.

I never said we are eternal.

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#11

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Posts: 3,353

12.15.2021 12:29AM

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@K_Michael

humanity - through temptation - external temptation, decided it did not need God, even though God had clearly enunciated that without God, he would surely die.
First, how do you qualify an external temptation? If everything is dependent on God, as you say, then the temptation was ultimately sourced from Him.
Second, when did God say that humanity would surely de without HIm?

That's a great point. I tossed up using the term external - not thinking anyone would even pick up on it. I suggest you do some reading from the Reformers - like Calvin and the WCF. They make some interesting distinctions between external and internal. They relate it to original sin.

Yes, everything ultimately is sourced in God - the First Cause. Yet Second Causes also play a significant role.

Don't mix the author of history's book up with the characters in the book. When you do - the book loses meaning.

Genesis 2. In the day you eat the forbidden fruit, you shall surely die.

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#12

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12.15.2021 12:31AM

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@zedvictor4

Depends on what you mean by GOD Trade.

And I'm never quite sure what you do mean by GOD.

It would be helpful if you accompanied such preaching, with a practical explanation of your idea of GOD.

Rather that using loose and undefining ritual speak.....White Noise as it were.

God as defined by the Bible. Terrible and Awefull. loving and merciful. Full of grace and holy. Just and kind. All of the above and many many more characteristics.

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#13

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12.15.2021 12:32AM

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@Stephen

Stephen,

Jesus died and rose again. The facts of history demonstrate this over and over again. Deny it all you like. That is your prerogative while you live. Yet once you die - your prerogative disappears and then you face the judge of history. I say while there is life there is hope. But one day - we all die. That is inevitable.

#14

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Posts: 11,405

12.15.2021 06:08AM

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@Tradesecret

That could just as easily describe a bowl of custard Trade.

What I really wanted, was to understand what your GOD actually was.

#15

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Posts: 8,348

12.15.2021 08:31AM

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@Tradesecret

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.

Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them."

"So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".

Absolutely. God regretted.

Stop it! God hated his creation so much he "repented"Genesis 6:6 KJV and destroyed it. These are biblical facts.

But God loved. Don't forget God loved.

I suppose you have more of that "very clear evidence" that god so loved mankind, don't you? The only time that your god mentions the word love is when he commanded Abraham to kill his son whom "he lovest" Genesis 22:2 KJV

" And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

I know you want to focus on the negative. But in doing so - you ALWAYS miss half the story. And the best bits at that.

Well simply lets see you show us positive side to your god. That will be job done, won't it. Speaking of Job, didn't your god sanction the death of TEN! of Jobs children?

Every Judge regrets sentencing people to prison.

For a defence lawyer your are absolutely brilliant of opening the door for the prosecution, aren't you Lawyer "Tradey".

The judge who decided John Albert Taylor should die for the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl said he has no regrets about ordering the death penalty.https://www.deseret.com/1996/1/26/19221482/judge-has-no-regrets-for-ordering-death-penalty

More examples on request.

And we are talking death, not prison. You clown!

But he does that because he knows it is the right thing to do.

I see so sentencing all of mankind for the "sins" of the few is the right thing to do.

You only demonstrate sympathy for the wicked.

On the contrary. Like the Judge I mention above, I have no sympathy for anyone that slaughters the innocent. Grow up ffs!

for the Your heart seems to line up with the wicked. That Stephen is your problem.

Yes, well, that is just your own opinion of a faceless person that you have never met personally and only on a forum of the WWW, so the problem is your own, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret.

#16

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12.15.2021 09:10AM

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@Tradesecret

It is the best fit for all of the data available - and alone explains - not only why the tomb was empty,

Been here before Reverend "Tradey". And empty to tomb is only evidence that a tomb was empty. It is not evidence that a dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! And the "available data" is less than scant. No one actually seen or witnessed this "dead" man rise from the "dead" did they? They found the tomb open and empty, remember.
But you should understand all this with you being a fully trained and qualified defence Lawyer, shouldn't you?

And tell me, who rolled away the stone? Why did the stone need to be rolled away in the first place, when we are also being asked to believe that Jesus can walk through walls?

Jesus died and rose again. The facts of history demonstrate this over and over again.

Lets see this"available data" and these "facts" that you keep spouting about. Who actually witnessed the dead stinking corpse of Jesus rise from the cold slab that he was supposed to have been laid on?

Deny it all you like.

Try answering those simple questions that have arisen from your own statements, Lawyer "Tradey". Or are you simply going to insist on ignoring the bleedin' obvious?

#17

Debates: 38

Posts: 749

12.16.2021 07:52PM

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@Tradesecret

Genesis 2. In the day you eat the forbidden fruit, you shall surely die.

your original statement

Then humanity - through temptation - external temptation, decided it did not need God, even though God had clearly enunciated that without God, he would surely die.

"In the day you eat the forbidden fruit, you shall surely die."

"without God, [humanity] would surely die."

In my opinion you are conflating renouncing God with eating the forbidden fruit. This is rather interesting because the forbidden fruit was representative of the knowledge of good and evil. So you are saying that to have knowledge of good and evil is to renounce God? (Perhaps because God is evil?)

#18

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Posts: 4,188

12.17.2021 01:51AM

I can't imagine a parent who has children just to punish them. That is some trailer park storytelling. Thank goodness there are creation stories where the gods made man because they they just wanted to they wanted to have someone to converse with. I mean the god you're talking about is more like Zeus who sent Pandora's box to Earth to punish the fact that man have been made. And when you look at what else you said he is not decent or nice he like raped like 75 women. I just I don't I honestly don't get it. And when you compare that to Jesus they're not anywhere near close. I don't think Jesus was talking about the God of Abraham at all. I think he was talking about the true creator that's why I say the best Christians are the ones that never read the Bible they just decide they like Jesus and want to follow how he lived.

249 days later

#19

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08.23.2022 11:06PM

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@Stephen

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.

Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them."

"So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".

It was a miscalculation by Jesus to speak to the Jews differently in the New Testament Gospels than God did in the Old Testament.

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#20

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08.23.2022 11:28PM

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@Shila

I assume you think that because he destroyed the world - that this means he did not love the world. Perhaps it might mean that. Or perhaps it might mean that he did not love what humans had become - so he decided to wash the world clean with water?

It is not unimportant that God waited patiently for them to repent - according to 1 Peter 3:20. Even in their hatred of God, God still waited for them to stop being disobedient. 120 years is a long time.

In any event, Jesus did not miscalculate in any of his dealings on earth. Nor did he speak differently in the NT than he did in the OT. God judges in the NT and in the OT. He loved in the OT and in the NT. IT is the same God in the OT and the NT.

The only who seems to be incorrect or in error is you.

#21

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08.24.2022 12:49AM

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@Tradesecret

It was a miscalculation by Jesus to speak to the Jews differently in the New Testament Gospels than God did in the Old Testament.

I assume you think that because he destroyed the world - that this means he did not love the world. Perhaps it might mean that. Or perhaps it might mean that he did not love what humans had become - so he decided to wash the world clean with water?

It is not unimportant that God waited patiently for them to repent - according to 1 Peter 3:20. Even in their hatred of God, God still waited for them to stop being disobedient. 120 years is a long time.

In any event, Jesus did not miscalculate in any of his dealings on earth. Nor did he speak differently in the NT than he did in the OT. God judges in the NT and in the OT. He loved in the OT and in the NT. IT is the same God in the OT and the NT.

The only who seems to be incorrect or in error is you.

God sent plagues to Egypt and fed the Jews during the Exodus. Old Testament.

Jesus said he was sent to save the Jews.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Jesus knew the Romans would kill their messiah, destroy the Holy Temple and slaughter the Jews the very people he was sent to save. Jesus even quoted Daniel.

But Jesus allowed himself to be mocked, beaten and ridiculed by the Romans before they crucified him.

It was a miscalculation by Jesus to treat Jews differently in the New Testament Gospels than God did in the Old Testament.

#22

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08.24.2022 06:15AM

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@Tradesecret

I assume you think that because he destroyed the world - that this means he did not love the world. Perhaps it might mean that. Or perhaps it might mean that he did not love what humans had become - so he decided to wash the world clean with water?

A lot of that speculation that you are averse to when others speculate going on there Reverend Tradsecret. Didn't you once tell us that you would never speculate when it comes to the bible/the word of god. 🤣

#23

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Posts: 4,188

08.24.2022 10:06AM

Jesus' message and Jesus himself has nothing to do with the God of Abraham. It's a completely contradictory message and he basically tells people to violate Jewish law. People just connected Jesus to the god of Abraham because either one, he was Jewish or two, they wanted to establish dominance over that particular religion.

#24

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