Scamdemic

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01.17.2022 10:03PM

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01.17.2022 10:03PM

I agree that some people are making too big a deal about Covid, though I'm happy to see city leadership pushing back. For instance Lori Lightfoot in Chicago and Eric Adams in NYC have been fighting teacher's unions (fuck them) trying to make schools go remote again, and we haven't had lockdowns of any kind even in Los Angeles despite Covid cases and hospitalizations increasing. The second you leave city limits there are no mask mandates, social distance requirements, etc. and life has largely gone back to normal for almost everyone. So it seems like governments have been continuously loosening the reigns - the exact opposite of what was supposed to be the end result of this Bill Gates induced scamdemic.

Now what I don't get about the vaccine skeptics is why they think politicians and doctors all over the world are conspiring to poison or needlessly jab their citizens just for the hell of it. There are other ways to keep Big Pharma profitable. Why would every single country, including our enemies, be espousing the same lies -- and how did they convince the overwhelming majority of the science community across the globe to go along with it? (I get that Sweden was one very unique country, as in small and homogenous, that avoided lockdowns; however, they are nearly 90% vaccinated against Covid now.)

North Korea and Eritrea are the only two countries without Covid vaccine campaigns. Instead North Korea has dealt with the pandemic through years of lockdowns that are still ongoing. So to be clear, what is the alleged logic behind all of the countries around the globe including North Korea taking strong action against Covid? Are we all on the same side now? I assume the theory is that it's some sort of GLOBAL conspiracy to take over the world. Can someone explain to me how it works? Does Dr. Fauci control Kim Jung Un? Did our Deep State force Russia to develop their own vaccine? Did China really want to help the richest U.S. companies grow even richer which threatens their economic prowess... is that the argument? I don't get it.

#2

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01.17.2022 10:14PM

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01.17.2022 10:14PM

Lockdowns and vaccinations are not really related though as vaccines don't slow the spread.

There's also no correlation between number of hospitalizations and deaths as we all know Omicron is far less deadly despite the record number of people getting infected and hospitalized for it. But at the same time that they overplayed the risks of Omicron, they downplayed the dangers and risks of Delta because it would have exposed the inefficacy of the original vaccines vs Delta.

Leaders have done a piss poor job of explaining why and when the number of cases put people at risk of death and when (Omicron) that risk isn't nearly as great.

They have also done a piss poor job of explaining at-risk categories particularly the factor of Obesity. I am sure hundreds of thousands of lives may have been saved over the years if a national effort were made to get people to lose weight. Nations with thinner people had amazingly less fatalities from Covid all across the board. Maybe it would haven't been politically correct, but it would have saved lives absolutely.

As far as the policies of lockdowns and removing kids from school, we are still evaluating the monumental social and economic cost of those policies for seemingly small returns as of now, so the jury is out on that.

Long story short. people have good reason not to trust what the government says about danger and risks.

Most certainly, they have no reason to expect the government to keep them safe.

#3

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01.17.2022 10:28PM

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@Danielle

I have absolutely no idea how the genuine 'the whole thing is a hoax' type people justify their reasoning but I can answer a different question if you're asking about how people who believe that the elites of the world benefit from this entire event and are powerful enough to pull it off intentionally even (I am not so sure it was that, it seems like a leak that, once discovered ~ China let spread/leak further on purpose but didn't mean to get out on purpose necessarily).

I want to be clear on what you're asking though and what you think the agenda is because if you think it's just Amazon getting richer, it makes sense why you're confused as to what the accusation is.

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oromagi

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oromagi

01.17.2022 10:50PM

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01.17.2022 10:50PM

The logic is the loyalty test. Anti-vaxxers get extra credit on their conspiracy theory credentials for risking their family's life and well-being in order to demonstrate club membership. Club membership gets you a feeling of belonging in an age of alienation and gives less educated folks the opportunity to speak authoritatively and expertly (if inaccurately) on a topic they can understand. Anti-vax belief reinforces the losers' conviction that they would be winners if society were not out to get them and grants them justification for just about any anti-societal act or belief those losers care to demonstrate.

#5

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01.18.2022 01:18AM

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01.18.2022 01:18AM

A new poll out shows the top 3 adjectives used to describe the current government are:

50% Frustrated

49% Disappointed

40% Nervous

#6

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01.18.2022 05:53AM

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01.18.2022 05:53AM

I don't think it takes a lot to fool the whole world - and several countries haven't really used the vaccines that concerned me. China and Russia whipped up some shitty inactivated virus vaccine that wasn't very effective at all but doesn't seem to have the safety concerns attached to them that a lot of the western ones do.

I don't really subscribe to the big conspiracy theories - I don't think it needs to be a big conspiracy. I think that pharmaceutical companies hate FDA testing regimens and found a way to both skip them and be completely freed from liability. They pulled the right strings to get approval in the US, then sold the vaccines as a silver bullet to end the pandemic to countries around the globe. To say that it is profitable is the understatement of the century - $36 billion is a huge amount of money. The entire global recording industry - every star from Dolly Parton to Post Malone - made $23 billion in 2020. The product ended up not doing what it was promised to do, and booster shots were shoved through the FDA approval process to rake in more money. Now the boosters are failing too. I don't think that everyone who got the vaccine is going to die, but they were never going to eliminate the virus or stop it from mutating, and for low risk groups it doesn't make sense to get jabbed. Governments mostly go along with the hysteria and fan the flames because it allows them to accumulate more 'emergency powers' that will have to be pried from their cold, dead fingers; the individual government officials' investments in Pfizer yielding dividends is probably just an added bonus for them.

Oh and fuck teacher's unions. Absolute scumbags. Grocery workers have to deal with hundreds, thousands of different people in and out of their store every fucking day, but these dumb fucks are hyperventilating about going to a single classroom with the same fifty KIDS (low-risk group) every day? Then they scream and cry and get the schools shut down, and said grocery worker now has to worry about having someone to watch her kids while she goes to work keeping everyone fed. I've completely lost whatever shred of patience I had for these spoiled idiots.

#7

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01.18.2022 06:04AM

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@Greyparrot

So out of every 100 people polled, 139 suggested one of the three listed adjectives.

Now that's voter fraud on a massive scale.

Eat your heart out Orange man.

#8

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01.18.2022 06:27AM

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@Danielle

Here in the U.K, we seem to have concluded that it's now time to implement the what the fuck option, with regular non-mandatory vaccination.

Can't piss about forever.

And if the sick and the elderly cop it once in a while......That's actually how it's meant to be.

#9

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https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2022/01/15/e08f9195-35be-4ee5-972a-b0a5e61861d3/21.png

01.18.2022 06:43AM

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@zedvictor4

Respondents were probably allowed to pick more than one. It's not like the British who have a one track mind.

#10

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01.19.2022 07:13AM

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@Greyparrot

But to be fair, the nature of government dictates that it doesn't matter how a government performs, the populace is never content and the media is always trying to undermine public confidence.

It's all a big game, that lasts several years and then we get to play at voting again......And then within a month or so we're bored with the new lot.

And the reason we get bored is because in the day to day scheme of things, everything stays the same.

At the moment if one believes the media, the future of the British Government all rests upon a christmas drinks get together....Such are the urgent issues that affect the Nation and the Planet.

Topic's author

#11

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01.20.2022 12:35AM

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@Greyparrot

vaccines don't slow the spread.

Show me the research that says this.

Long story short. people have good reason not to trust what the government says about danger and risks.

I get that you don't trust government. I asked why politicians and scientists in every single country all over the world are lying to citizens across the globe, and why every single country (including all of our enemies) would be on the same side. I asked if Dr. Fauci controls Russia and Kim Jung Un. I asked how or why it would be in China's best interest to go along with the scandemic and subsequent lockdowns, which enriched our biggest corporations which threatens their economic dominance.

I think the second you try to answer any of these questions, you'll realize the "scamdemic" theory doesn't make sense. It's far more likely the government just overreacted in the face of bad data - data that was incomplete and that presumed the worst. They they have subsequently backed down with the majority of the country having already returned to normal (again, challenging the idea that this was a grand plan to unleash some type of draconian new world order). But hey maybe it is true that every single politician, doctor and scientist around the world including all of our enemies were all pushing the same lies to their people. If that's the case, I hope someone tries answering my questions to explain the point of that to me.

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#12

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01.20.2022 12:37AM

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@ResurgetExFavilla

China and Russia whipped up some shitty inactivated virus vaccine that wasn't very effective at all but doesn't seem to have the safety concerns attached to them that a lot of the western ones do.

What kind of safety concerns are attached to the U.S. vaccines?

I think that pharmaceutical companies hate FDA testing regimens and found a way to both skip them and be completely freed from liability.

So you're suggesting they just sort of got tired of waiting for approval, and were okay with killing millions of people around the world to get some ROI. That wouldn't be the craziest thing to happen, but I don't get why governments and corporations all over the world would be in lockstep with this scam. China's economy suffered tremendously -- I think they might still be locked down.

I don't know if I agree the shots didn't do what they promised to do considering we kind of knew all along how viruses mutate and how the efficacy of vaccines wanes with subsequent mutations. That's why there was a push for quick vaccination. I also don't know if I agree that the government cares about accumulating more emergency powers here since, as I said, the vast majority of life has gone back to normal and in some places hardly changed at all. Why are all the big liberal city mayors fighting lockdowns and unions mandating restrictions if their goal is more control? What kind of control, specifically are they after here? I'm not saying it's not true - I'm saying I need an explanation of what specific power they're looking for so it doesn't just sound like a Fox News sound bite.

#13

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01.20.2022 12:40AM

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@Danielle

What kind of safety concerns are attached to the U.S. vaccines?

We have no clue yet but when they make us take booster 6 and 7 enough mRNA will have altered cells to begin to notice genuine clues and signs potentially, which will be explained away at first as a coincidence if it happens as the governments are liable, not Moderna or Pfizer.

#14

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01.20.2022 12:41AM

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01.20.2022 12:41AM

Take AZ or J&J, that is actual vaccination not mRNA being injected to alter your body cells.

If you can't, then take mRNA if you absolutely have to for health reasons.

#15

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01.20.2022 12:44AM

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01.20.2022 12:44AM

In many nations at the moment you can't book yourself manually onto AZ or J&J if they default you to Pfizer or Moderna, so research walk-ins it may require you to take transport to get to the place if it's not within walking distance of any kind but if you're serious about getting vaccinated without mRNA risk, that's worth doing.

#16

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7224-if-i-immunise-you-by-mrna-altering-your-cells-i-did-not-vaccinate-you

01.20.2022 01:46AM

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#17

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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/19/health/omicron-vaccines-efficacy.html

01.20.2022 01:48AM

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@Danielle

#18

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUSXz3RCyKc

01.20.2022 05:29AM

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@Danielle

I asked why politicians and scientists in every single country all over the world are lying to citizens across the globe, and why every single country (including all of our enemies) would be on the same side.

They all got their marching orders from the same source.

For the 1st time in epidemic history, a global lockdown was experimented upon the people. Let's see how it pans out Cotton.

This is an interesting paper (with citations) explaining that maybe we shouldn't have used lockdowns to treat a virus.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.625778/full

Conclusion

The lockdowns implemented in the name of public health entailed trade-offs that were not adequately considered. Lockdowns may prevent some COVID-19 deaths by flattening the curve of cases and preventing stress on hospitals. At the same time, lockdowns cause severe adverse effects for many millions of people, disproportionately for those already disadvantaged among us. The collateral damage included severe losses to current and future wellbeing from unemployment, poverty, food insecurity, interrupted preventive, diagnostic, and therapeutic healthcare, interrupted education, loneliness and deterioration of mental health, and intimate partner violence. The economic recession has been framed as the economy vs. saving lives from COVID-19, but this is a false dichotomy. The economic recession, through austerity in government spending on the social determinants of health, can be expected to cause far more loss of life and wellbeing over the long-run than COVID-19 can. We must open up society to save many more lives than we can by attempting to avoid every case (or even most cases) of COVID-19. It is past time to take an effortful pause, calibrate our response to the true risk, make rational cost-benefit analyses of the trade-offs, and end the lockdown groupthink.

#19

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01.20.2022 07:09AM

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@Danielle

China and Russia whipped up some shitty inactivated virus vaccine that wasn't very effective at all but doesn't seem to have the safety concerns attached to them that a lot of the western ones do.
What kind of safety concerns are attached to the U.S. vaccines?

Mostly vascular issues (especially with young men) and some menstrual issues with women.

I think that pharmaceutical companies hate FDA testing regimens and found a way to both skip them and be completely freed from liability.

So you're suggesting they just sort of got tired of waiting for approval, and were okay with killing millions of people around the world to get some ROI. That wouldn't be the craziest thing to happen, but I don't get why governments and corporations all over the world would be in lockstep with this scam.

I think it's mostly to do with the ownership of things becoming concentrated into very few hands. When the same class of people are invested heavily in media, educational institutions, and pharmaceutical companies it introduces a lot of perverse incentives. The same goes for politicians who are watching whatever stock that they own in Pfizer shoot through the roof even as they craft the policies and laws which will shape the markets in which these companies operate. I don't think that millions of people are necessarily going to drop dead, but I think that there are demographic groups for whom the risks outweigh the rewards. For example, children and people who have already had the virus, especially the omicron strain. I think it's criminal, for example, that many of the vaccine mandates that are rolling out contain no exemption for people who were already infected. This exemption is offered in many other countries with very strict mandates, like Israel or some European nations. I think that it's scientifically incoherent to treat a person who's getting boosted with a vaccine designed for alpha (with diminishing returns) as having better immunity that someone who just recovered from omicron. The only reason I could see for this policy is to financially aid vaccine manufacturers and expand government power. It's also a pet theory of mine that the conservative Supreme Court majority is going to support mandates if they are challenged on medical privacy grounds, in order to undermine the legal arguments that support Roe v. Wade before repealing it.

China's economy suffered tremendously -- I think they might still be locked down.

China is probably lying about their numbers, and has actually been locked down for very little of the pandemic - they kind of play whack-a-mole with sudden regional lockdowns in response to spikes (Xi'an was the big one last year) but otherwise claim that they've achieved 'zero covid'. Personally I'm skeptical and think they have just decided to live with it and keep up appearances.

I don't know if I agree the shots didn't do what they promised to do considering we kind of knew all along how viruses mutate and how the efficacy of vaccines wanes with subsequent mutations. That's why there was a push for quick vaccination.

I remember when 99% effective was the mantra, and people were pretending that if we got high enough vaccination rates the virus wouldn't be able to mutate and would die out (there were already multiple animal reservoirs at this point, and much of the global south remained unvaccinated). Now we're on multiple boosters with diminishing returns, with the WHO warning that the entire model is unviable. It was sold as a silver bullet, and governments embraced it under that premise, sometimes to the exclusion of all other approaches (early treatment, vitamins, weight loss, etc).

I also don't know if I agree that the government cares about accumulating more emergency powers here since, as I said, the vast majority of life has gone back to normal and in some places hardly changed at all. Why are all the big liberal city mayors fighting lockdowns and unions mandating restrictions if their goal is more control? What kind of control, specifically are they after here? I'm not saying it's not true - I'm saying I need an explanation of what specific power they're looking for so it doesn't just sound like a Fox News sound bite.

Vaccine passports are now a thing in NYC, Philly, and Chicago. That's an absolutely huge intrusion - you have to show people your papers to get a hamburger. Then there's Biden's attempt to use OSHA to completely bypass the legislative process. I know that in Pennsylvania things only went back to normal because a plebiscite stripped the governor of his emergency powers halfway through 2021 - these powers weren't willingly surrendered, and he still bitches about having his hands tied and being 'unable to do more'.

#20

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01.20.2022 02:48PM

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01.20.2022 02:48PM

The government eventually figured out you can't continue to make war to make money. So they found a way to make money and fake that you're trying to help people. Big farm is the new "Military-Industrial Complex". And if you find that to be b******* I can guarantee you there's people debating whether or not to pay their electric bill or buy their medications to live.

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#21

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01.20.2022 04:33PM

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@Greyparrot

That copy pasta didn't answer my questions about a global conspiracy; it just states why lockdowns were a bad idea. The NY Times link you sent describes a study which says the vaccines aren't effective at preventing Omicron in vaccinated individuals like it was effective against the other strains. If you plan on using this study as a resource (implying it's valid) then it means you accept the points it makes about the efficacy of vaccines overall. The study also says a third booster shot is a lot more effective against Omicron. But let me guess, you don't believe that.

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#22

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01.20.2022 04:42PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

I see. Do you believe all the researchers at the Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins are lying?

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#23

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01.20.2022 04:51PM

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@ResurgetExFavilla

Mostly vascular issues (especially with young men) and some menstrual issues with women.

It adds ~1 day to your period when you get the shot and has no impact on child bearing. I think these "concerns" are just dramatizations to promote the false narrative that vaccines spread infertility and were designed to depopulate the earth. There was skepticism and accusations long before the vaccine ever came out or any data was collected. Call me crazy but I don't think the government is trying to sterilize the population, especially upper class white people who are most likely to get vaxxed. Statistically even young and healthy people are more likely to develop health problems from Covid than from the vaccines.

When the same class of people are invested heavily in media, educational institutions, and pharmaceutical companies it introduces a lot of perverse incentives.

Agree, but I'm talking about the universal consensus among doctors, scientists and epidemiologists all over the world. Every doctor I know personally is not empowered or enriched by lying. All the nurses who worked overcrowded hospitals at one point did not become empowered or enriched by lying.

Does Dr. Fauci control Putin? Who in North Korea is becoming more empowered through these economic disruptions and deaths? Kim Jung Un doesn't need to fabricate a fake virus to control his people. It's silly to think he and other despots care what the WHO says (I'm not going to hold you to the conspiracies that Wylted and Parrot believe, but that is what the majority of the "concerns" are about).

I think that it's scientifically incoherent to treat a person who's getting boosted with a vaccine designed for alpha (with diminishing returns) as having better immunity that someone who just recovered from omicron. The only reason I could see for this policy is to financially aid vaccine manufacturers and expand government power.

I agree, but the obvious or more logical theory is it's too difficult to keep track of who really had the virus. What are we supposed to do - go by the honor system? It wouldn't be possible to use this metric of infection; most people don't even get tested. It took me 7 days to get my PCR test results back. By the time they were returned, I wasn't contagious anymore if I was infected, and it only shows up on the test if you take it at the right time. It wouldn't be feasible to go by this standard of immunity as a metric for vaccine compliance even though it's true that people who had the virus shouldn't need to be vaxxed. Most people just do not have reliable proof. The lines on at-home Covid tests disappear in like 2 hours and there's no way to prove which person took the test. Plus antibody levels are higher after the shot than in people who recovered from Covid naturally. Glenn Beck has Covid for the second time. Last I heard it was "getting into his lungs." Sending thoughts and prayers.

It's also a pet theory of mine that the conservative Supreme Court majority is going to support mandates if they are challenged on medical privacy grounds, in order to undermine the legal arguments that support Roe v. Wade before repealing it.

It would also follow precedent to uphold mandates. Biden's never had any chance and was a ludicrous overreach by the administration.

Personally I'm skeptical and think [China has] just decided to live with it and keep up appearances.

China could easily go on living with the pandemic because the majority of people there are vaccinated, wear masks and socially distance on their own without force. They are a collectivist country who are far more willing to go along with the precautions (which they are more used to than us) not only because of government mandates but social shaming. Their culture is just different. The question is why China would go along with a global conspiracy that cost their country a trillion dollars during the first few months of the pandemic.

It was sold as a silver bullet, and governments embraced it under that premise, sometimes to the exclusion of all other approaches (early treatment, vitamins, weight loss, etc).

Most of the vaccines were between 80% and 96% effective before Delta iirc. They were the best approach for a country and economy that could not sustain lockdowns and refused to social distance or mask up without force and pushback. The government can't mandate weight loss lol. There was no research on the link between vitamins and other treatments until 2021. Why would skeptics trust that research anyway? It was always funny to me they would trust the science if it said Ivermectin was okay but not vaccines - proof of bias. Why should anyone believe Bill Gates doesn't have his paws in the supplement industry? It's worth a few hundred billion dollars but I guess we can trust them and just not Big Pharma (weird).

Now we're on multiple boosters with diminishing returns, with the WHO warning that the entire model is unviable.

Oh so you trust the WHO. They're the ones behind the whole scamdemic... (kidding).

Vaccine passports are now a thing in NYC, Philly, and Chicago. That's an absolutely huge intrusion - you have to show people your papers to get a hamburger.

These are terrible policies, but what kind of power are politicians getting from having three cities in the U.S. with robust vaccine mandates which may or may not be heavily enforced? The mandates are unpopular. The only place I've ever had to show my vaccine proof was a Broadway show and comedy show, so basically venues with a lot of people sitting right on top of each other. They were much stricter about masks and whatnot in Chicago when I went recently. It comes down to whether or not an employee making minimum wage feels like getting into a useless argument and the odds of that are low. The new mayor is also way more lenient than DeBlasio.

Why does Biden who is half-dead give a shit about making sure everyone is vaccinated as an element of control? I'm not denying these policies are intrusions; I just don't think politicians are trying to microchip us and make us sterile. Skeptics believe this was all a giant lie to see if people would really stay home without significant pushback (they didn't). Even if the argument is that politicians were personally enriched by the vaccine, it still doesn't explain the other elements to the conspiracy about why every science and medical professional agrees. You can resist the policies without giving credence to the people who think this entire thing is a hoax or elaborate lie. It's one thing to be resistant to mandates or question limited research; it's another to believe that hospitals were really empty and the whole entire staff and media was conspiring to make up fake deaths to inflate the numbers. These conspiracy theorists are on a whole other level.

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01.20.2022 07:01PM

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@Danielle

That copy pasta didn't answer my questions about a global conspiracy;

I'm not sure why you want to label what the WHO did to coordinate global lockdowns as a "conspiracy"

Did people make money off of bad central planners? (hint, central planners always fuck up)

Sure they did. They always do. That doesn't mean they created the central planners.

#25

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01.20.2022 07:22PM

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@Danielle

Don't recall saying anyone was lying. Viruses exist I'm sure this one does too wasn't at all what I was f****** talking about.

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01.20.2022 07:26PM

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@Danielle

Your experience isn't everyone else's. It was specifically stated to me that if I got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine that because it was based on the virus, like a regular vaccine, that because covid caused blood clots if you're predisposed to blood clots it could cause a problem. Which was one of the decisions of me not getting the Johnson & Johnson shot. That was not something they knew initially it came about as people got the shots. Just because people are saying things that you don't agree with or don't know about doesn't mean they're lying or we're saying the virus doesn't exist. You obviously have huge amounts of bigotry on this subject I see no reason to engage with it further.

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01.20.2022 07:40PM

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@Danielle

every government on earth loves the idea of a "loyalty-oath"

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