Can&#39;t say GAY bill.

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https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/19/houston-library-features-convicted-child-molester-reading-trans-books-children/

03.10.2022 09:56PM

A bill prohibiting sex education to kindergarteners has had about 10% truthful coverage, and 90% fake news. Even the president lies about this bill.

If we can't trust news on something as small as a State bill protecting kindergarteners, we surely can't trust them covering anything else. Especially the fall of Ukraine.

Tim Pool claimed, "you could lie just as much and say the bill states "you cant say STRAIGHT" to kindergartener."

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

This effectively ends the pedo ring of men dressing up as women for Kindergarten storytime to get a chubby around little kids.

Topic's author

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03.10.2022 09:58PM

Five-Year-Olds Shouldn’t Be Learning About Anal Sex

Part of the problem is that it’s impossible to explain to a young child what “gay” or “transgender” is without also exposing her to concepts that are not appropriate for pre-pubescent children. It’s not true, for example, as the YouTube channel Queer Kids Stuff explains, that being gay just means: “When one person of one gender loves someone romantically who is the same gender. So, if a boy loves a boy, they’re gay. And if a girl loves a girl, they’re gay too. What if a person loves a person? They’re gay too.”

As everyone with any life experience knows, the vast majority of friendships among people of the same sex include no sexual activity or attraction. Women routinely love female relatives deeply with no sexuality involved, and the same is true for men. Emotional closeness does not suffice to define homosexuality, and telling kids it does risks teaching the falsehood that their childish affection for their best friend or father means they’re gay.

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03.11.2022 04:31PM

A bill prohibiting sex education to kindergarteners

False. Sex education does not begin in FL school until 6th Grade at the earliest. The majority of schools don't begin sex education until 9th grade. This law does not adjust the teaching of sex education in any way.

has had about 10% truthful coverage, and 90% fake news. Even the president lies about this bill.

Let's be sure to note that GP started lying about this bill in his first sentence.

If we can't trust news on something as small as a State bill protecting kindergarteners, we surely can't trust them covering anything else. Especially the fall of Ukraine.

Let's apply the same standard to GP's regular and deliberate campaigns of disinformation and lies.

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

In spite of GP's direct quotes neither this text or any similar appears in the bill. Greyparrot has a real problem with direct quotes, it seems.

Here's the bill

What it actually says:

schools must notify parents if there is a change in the student's services or monitoring related to the student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being

(this is already established law in FL)

schools may not withhold from a parent information about his or her student's mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being, or a change in related services or monitoring, or that encourage or have the effect of encouraging a student to withhold from a parent such information, unless a reasonably prudent person would believe that such disclosure would result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect.

So if a child confides in a teacher something that child does not want their parents to know, this bill compels teachers to notify parents against the wishes of the child. I don't have a problem with this generally although I do object to big govt. inserting its big nose into matters that teachers generally handle very discretely and competently. Republicans claim they oppose big govt. interference when it comes to privacy but bills like this expose the lie of such claims.

schools may not encourage classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in primary grade levels or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.

So if children ask their teacher why only men get to Be President of the United States, that teacher may not reply without risking a lawsuit.

Parents can sue if they think teachers have "encouraged classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity"

I think parents have a responsibility to teach their children about sex and that teachers need only teach the basic biological facts about the time kids hit puberty. This law does not address sex education at all but seems designed to muzzle teachers from any discussion about LGBT civil rights and allow parents to sue teachers who do.

Most constitutional scholars advise that this bill is unconstitutionally vague and offers no real legislative change, it just gives ignorant folks like Greyparrot yet another chance to falsely claim that FL now prohibits sex education in K-5 in an election year, when that was nobody was ever doing that.

This effectively ends the pedo ring of men dressing up as women for Kindergarten storytime to get a chubby around little kids.

Every word of this sentence is a lie. Greyparrot's fantasies about men's erections are exclusively that, Greyparrot's fantasies.

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03.11.2022 04:52PM

Part of the problem is that it’s impossible to explain to a young child what “gay” or “transgender” is without also exposing her to concepts that are not appropriate for pre-pubescent children

This is obviously false. Only Greyparrot feels the need to talk about anal sex when explaining to kids what gay means. This is like saying you can't discuss heterosexual marriage without first discussing how to stimulate the clitoris. Only a perverse mind would insist that specific sex acts must be discussed in any explanation of human attraction or coupling.

Topic's author

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03.11.2022 05:05PM

Drag Queen Storytime is spreading to libraries across the country, mostly but not exclusively in deeply Democratic locales. It even has a national PR webpage featuring an image of a scared toddler staring at a man dressed up in drag while the child’s mother encourages the child to get over the apprehension.

Notice that this is the exact opposite of what sexual assault prevention programs teach at-risk people to do: pay attention to and act on their feelings of discomfort, rather than overrule them. Child molesters are known for “grooming” potential victims, including by getting them used to ignoring worries and warnings from their consciences, confusing them about what is normal, and accepting increasing levels of transgressive behavior.

If you’re looking at this with a fair mind, it’s pretty easy to see that LGBT platitudes about “love” and “diversity” could easily warp children’s developing understanding of safe and appropriate sexual behavior. These platitudes have already been used to subversively turn off the good judgment of the people who should be protecting children from potential harm, such as concerned parents and watchful librarians.

This bill essentially gets rid of the vans handing out candy to unsuspecting victims under the guise of "education"

A sane culture would work to reduce children’s exposure to adult material. In a sane culture, it would not take an actual child molester leading Drag Queen Storytime to make people question the idea of such an event.

Topic's author

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03.11.2022 05:20PM

Let's look at Colorado for comparison.

In backwards regressive Colorado, legislature passed HB19-1320. Affecting kids as young as 9 years old (4th grade)

The bill mandates that new “comprehensive sex ed” classes must include “the relational or sexual experiences of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender individuals.” So will classes include videos (in yesteryear known as pornography) on how lesbians and homosexuals have sex? Will kids be taken on field trips to parks where gay men hook up, or to gay bars? These, after all, are “relational” and “sexual” experiences of the LGBTQ community. Is anything forbidden? Well yes. The bill forbids teaching “gender norms or gender stereotypes” – that is, the one man/one woman heterosexuality embraced by about 95 percent of Americans, to the horror of the LGBT lobby.

The dogma of the left is everywhere sacrificing parental authority on the altar of “gender fluidity” and “inclusiveness.” Children who have trouble remembering where their schoolbooks are, or often forget to feed the parakeet, are being legally empowered through Colorado's irresponsible bill to make decisions to permanently mutilate their bodies with surgery and chemicals that will forever change their lives by exposing them to pornographic content that they are not emotionally or biologically ready to deal with. Such mandates can scar a child's development to a point where long term pair bonding becomes near impossible as they are indoctrinated to suppress their normal sexual revulsions and urges in order to accept state sanctioned preferences. Cleverly disguised as "Culturally Sensitive" mandates.

Topic's author

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03.11.2022 05:55PM

So if children ask their teacher why only men get to Be President of the United States, that teacher may not reply without risking a lawsuit.

Pretty sure if a teacher said the reason is because voters don't like affirmative action politicians like Kamala running things, they won't get fired.

Or explaining most voters don't trust fake Hillary. Or empty suit Palin. Maybe explain that women who exhibit the kinds of toxic masculinity required to be a leader usually end up destroyed by their own gender.

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03.11.2022 08:45PM

Drag Queen Storytime....

Straw man.

The Florida bill does not address public libraries and does not address drag queens. Drag Queen story hours are still happening in Florida because nothing in this bill does anything to try to stop it. You are just shoving two random gay stories together and shouting "fixed it!"

Topic's author

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03.11.2022 09:28PM

Drag Queen story hours are still happening in Florida because nothing in this bill does anything to try to stop it.

Guess we need some Neo Nazis to fix the problem then. Good idea comrade.

#10

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03.11.2022 09:43PM

The bill mandates that new “comprehensive sex ed” classes must include

Colorado does not mandate sex ed in any school. And only 19% of schools teach sex ed in 9th grade and only 38% of high schools teach the "comprehensive sex ed" covered by this bill. This bill says that if you do teach sex ed you can't exclude gay kid's health. Colorado teaches abstinence only before high school.

That is Florida teaches sex ed to kids way earlier than Colorado does.

All that other pervy stuff about showing porn to elementary school kids is only happening in your imagination.

#11

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03.11.2022 09:52PM

women who exhibit the kinds of toxic masculinity required to be a leader usually end up destroyed by their own gender.

Got that, readers? Would you teach your daughters this ?

Topic's author

#12

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Posts: 23,259

03.11.2022 10:06PM

A study of 389 Norwegian participants found that people tended to assume more masculine-looking women were feminists, while more feminine-looking men were assumed to be feminists. Masculine-looking women were also perceived as less empathetic, less trustworthy, and less warm, but more dominant and threatening.

#13

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03.13.2022 02:54PM

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@oromagi

Drag Queen story hours are still happening in Florida because nothing in this bill does anything to try to stop it.

Isn’t it possible that this is because the bill has not become law yet?

#14

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03.14.2022 03:13AM

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@cristo71

-->@oromagi
Drag Queen story hours are still happening in Florida because nothing in this bill does anything to try to stop it.
Isn’t it possible that this is because the bill has not become law yet?

No. I linked to the text of the bill. As I stated above the law makes no mention of libraries or drag queens. The new bill amends existing legislation regarding student health to require teachers to notify parents about kids who come out at school and prevents teachers from "encouraging " discussion of LGBT issues in school. GP's Drag Queen Story Hour article is an unrelated three year old incident from another state that right wingers quote with astonishing frequency when and wherever LGBT rights are discussed.

#15

RationalMadman

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RationalMadman

03.14.2022 09:51AM

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@oromagi

Grey parrot went from being semi-amusing and somewhat sane to writing off-the-edge far right posts on the daily that are not at all funny anymore.

He evolved but it's a maladaptation.

#16

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https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

03.14.2022 03:36PM

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@oromagi

I linked to the text of the bill. As I stated above the law makes no mention of libraries or drag queens. The new bill amends existing legislation regarding student health to require teachers to notify parents about kids who come out at school and prevents teachers from "encouraging " discussion of LGBT issues in school.

I think you linked to an outdated version of the bill. The latest version, which is going to become law I believe, states in subparagraph 3:

“3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third

parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur

in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-

appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in

accordance with state standards.”

So, “discussion” has been revised to “instruction,” although the summary still states “discussion” for some reason. It seems to me that this paragraph would discourage, if not outright prohibit schools from having a “Drag Queen Hour” in kindergarten through 3rd grade at least.

#17

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03.14.2022 05:05PM

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@cristo71

I think you are still missing the central point which is that Drag Queen Story Hours happen at public libraries and not schools. That is, Drag Queen Story Hours are totally voluntary events at which it would be illegal to leave a K-3 age child unsupervised. The state probably has no regulatory authority for that library in Houston or any of the libraries in Florida that offer this particular entertainment.

I'll say again that the Florida bill has nothing whatsoever to do with any Drag Queen Story Hour anywhere. Greyparrot's maskirovka adding a years old story from another state to a forum about a current law unconstitutionally restricting the capacity of schoolchildren and teacher to discuss gay rights has deceived and befuddled you just as was intended.

Topic's author

#18

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03.14.2022 05:33PM

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@cristo71

“3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-
appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in
accordance with state standards.”

Thanks for debunking the fake news. I knew he was using outdated sources in bad faith. Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed.

Still no reply to post 6. Even Thett knows how dangerous Colorado's counter-legislation is when a child is "empowered by the state" to choose to mutilate their body.

No response to post #2 as there clearly is no way to explain what GAY (or STRAIGHT) is without talking about sex, otherwise every boy that loves his dad or brother will think it is a homosexual relationship. It's not "when a man loves a man"

Kids don't need to be indoctrinated in that, nor exposed to the mental disease of gender dysphoria. This bill protects them from that instruction.

#19

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https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org

03.14.2022 05:43PM

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@oromagi

I think you are still missing the central point which is that Drag Queen Story Hours happen at public libraries and not schools. That is, Drag Queen Story Hours are totally voluntary events at which it would be illegal to leave a K-3 age child unsupervised. The state probably has no regulatory authority for that library in Houston or any of the libraries in Florida that offer this particular entertainment.

That would be fine if the limits you claim actually existed. From the Drag Queen Story Hour website (emphasis added):

“Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH) is just what it sounds like—drag queens reading stories to children in libraries, schools, and bookstores. DQSH captures the imagination and play of the gender fluidity of childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models. In spaces like this, kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and imagine a world where people can present as they wish, where dress up is real.”

a current law unconstitutionally restricting the capacity of schoolchildren and teacher to discuss gay rights has deceived and befuddled you just as was intended.

You sound as if you don’t want to comprehend the distinction made in my prior post. “Instruction” is prohibited, not “discussion.”

#20

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03.14.2022 09:02PM

“Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH) is just what it sounds like—drag queens reading stories to children in libraries, schools, and bookstores. DQSH captures the imagination and play of the gender fluidity of childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models. In spaces like this, kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and imagine a world where people can present as they wish, where dress up is real.”

I found one example of an appearance in one school from a couple of years back in New York, and that event was voluntary. Let's say again that nothing in this bill prevents drag queens from coming to schools in Florida and reading books and I can't find any examples of that happening in Florida anyway.

You sound as if you don’t want to comprehend the distinction made in my prior post. “Instruction” is prohibited, not “discussion.”

As you said, that is still how FL summarizes the law: prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels or in a specified manner;

I agree prohibiting teachers from instructing students that LGBT have civil rights is less vague than "encouraging discussion." As I said before I also generally agree that such topics should be kept pretty broad and generic at that age but I doubt a total ban on teaching about whole classes of people protected by Fla State law is not likely to constitutional muster,

Topic's author

#21

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03.14.2022 09:07PM

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@oromagi

I agree prohibiting teachers from instructing students that LGBT have civil rights

So what? NAMBLA has rights protected under the constitution too, but we shouldn't have a teacher's union dictating what age to expose a child to NAMBLA.

Five-Year-Olds Shouldn’t Be Learning About Anal Sex

period. End of debate.

#22

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03.14.2022 09:59PM

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@oromagi

I agree prohibiting teachers from instructing students that LGBT have civil rights

How did civil rights enter our discussion about young children’s education? This is known as “sneaking in a premise”— saying something as if it has been established and agreed upon as true when it has not been. If you had an intellectually honest rebuttal, I’m sure you would have posited it instead.

#23

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03.15.2022 02:04PM

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@cristo71

-->@oromagi
I agree prohibiting teachers from instructing students that LGBT have civil rights
How did civil rights enter our discussion about young children’s education? This is known as “sneaking in a premise”— saying something as if it has been established and agreed upon as true when it has not been. If you had an intellectually honest rebuttal, I’m sure you would have posited it instead.

That is why people call it the "Don't say Gay" bill. Nobody is talking about anal sex to third graders. Teachers are including LGBT people in age appropriate discussions about civil rights and civic responsibilities and those are the discussions that this Florida law is designed to censor.

Note that I brought up civil rights in my first post- before you entered the conversation.
I note also that you failed to object to the inclusion of many other totally unrelated subjects- Drag Queen Story Hour, anal sex, masculine looking women, Colorado legislation, etc.

Greyparrot's thesis was "A bill prohibiting sex education to kindergarteners has had about 10% truthful coverage, and 90% fake news." Since nobody in Florida was ever providing sex education to kindergarteners, and the bill makes no mention of sex education, and the bill only prohibits discussion/instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity and the only discussion/instruction teachers were providing primary schoolers regarding sexual orientation and gender identity was specific to those groups' civil rights as protected classes under Florida law, Greyparrot's thesis was shown to be inaccurate in the first sentence.

#24

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03.15.2022 03:27PM

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@oromagi

That is why people call it the "Don't say Gay" bill

Yes, a misleading title (also a “snuck in premise” btw) which the MSM ran with to their disrepute.

Teachers are including LGBT people in age appropriate discussions about civil rights and civic responsibilities and those are the discussions that this Florida law is designed to censor.

Cite? I would genuinely be interested to see if there is any truth at all to these claims. Either way, I believe that civil rights are universal in a nation, so the concept can and should be taught without bringing various forms of identity into the concept, especially at a young age.

Note that I brought up civil rights in my first post- before you entered the conversation.

Noted. Initially, I was just taking issue with your claim about DGSH— a claim you then tried to render as moot. I still don’t agree, yet at least, to your characterization of the bill as being anti-civil rights education.

I note also that you failed to object to the inclusion of many other totally unrelated subjects- Drag Queen Story Hour, anal sex, masculine looking women, Colorado legislation, etc.

This is a head-scratcher of a contention, and you’re not even the first to make it. I will explain: I could probably take issue with almost anything anyone says in here… really! If this were a site patronized almost exclusively by right wingers, I would then be much more willing to quibble over the fine points and various disagreements that right wingers have with each other. This site *hardly* matches that description, so I pick my battles with those who bat for left wing platforms and allow left wingers to pick apart arguments from right wingers. I hardly see much infighting at all here, and it comes as no surprise… to me, at least.

… and the bill only prohibits discussion/instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity…

You persist in conflating “discussion” with “instruction” in the actionable aspect of the law. If you refuse to discuss the issue honestly, I’ll take that as my cue.

Topic's author

#25

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03.15.2022 03:28PM

NAMBLA has rights protected under the constitution too, but we shouldn't have a teacher's union dictating what age to expose a child to NAMBLA.

Note to all gentle readers, Oro has conceded this point and thus has forever lost this debate.

#26

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