Now that Russia has actually invaded, what do you think the US should be doing? If you were president, what would you do? Would you respond to international pressure to punish Russia at all?
How should the US handle the Ukraine War?
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@Sum1hugme
In these matters half measures tend to be the worst of both worlds. For instance the current strategy seems to maximize pissing Russians off and playing into their internal propaganda while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to actually win the war while creating an unholy alliance between Russia, CCP, and in the worst case perhaps even India.
#1) Don't let my administration say things like "oh their a nuclear power what can we do", yea they're a nuclear power but so is the USA, UK, France, and India. You can't let other nuclear powers use the threat of nukes for more than you do. You should say something like "we'll use nukes to prevent invasion of USA but that's it" If they say "we'll use nukes if we want ice cream for free" you need to call them on it... and by call I mean you need to do whatever they told you not to do.
#2) Don't let it get to this point, I think it was avoidable
#3) It's too late to be all "unconditional surrender" there is no such thing anymore.
#4) Create a manifesto which describes the necessary conditions and referendums for an area to change which country it is part of or become independent. Agree to abide by them in the whole world, not just for Ukraine.
If the Russians actually believe they are liberating the Donbas they'll agree. If they don't agree join the war on Ukraine's side.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
India would never ever join that alliance, they loathe China's ruthless attempts at undermining India in Asia. China is most recently behind Taliban taking over Afghabistan and no longer being allied to India. China treats its people as bad on a good day, as the worst slum dwellers in India get treated, enabling China to always make things cheaper than India can, by a few cents only at times, enabling perpetual undercutting and dominance over exports. India unofficially backs Ukraine but is worried that if it helps Ukraine actively, China will become more ruthless in their underhanded methods.
India is the only nation to run its highest security systems entirely on Linux rather than Microsoft, just so China, Russia and Iran who are known for extremely sophisticated cyberattacks, cannot penetrate India's infrastructure of top secret communications
.
India would never ever join that alliance, they loathe China's ruthless attempts at undermining India in Asia.
I am aware of that, but I am also aware of the greater context of India's history since independence. They got into a viscous civil war with the Muslims (now Pakistan) and only the USSR was willing to arm them. USA cozied up the Pakistan (enormous mistake).
People in the USA have recently been accusing India of oppressing people in Kashmir. You may not of heard about it here but they really noticed it there.
They will never join Russia to be with China, but they might consider Russia to be a more reliable ally than the USA. If the USA does something extraordinarily stupid at this time such as sanctioning India because they haven't sanctioned Russia hard enough it could convince them the USA is untrustworthy.
The CCP cares far more about destroying the US trade hegemony than any beef with Russia or India and will make deals accordingly.
The potential existed for the exact opposite outcome. The CCP threatened Vladivostok, stole Russian tech (like they steal everyone's), and you seem to know the history with India.
USA, India, Russia could have backed CCP into a corner. Now USA + Russia won't happen, Russia has only one option, win in Ukraine, back CCP, and hope the cold war is shorter this time.
If anyone thinks for one second any amount of sanctions or threats is going to make Russia back down they're nuts. Russian pride is no doubt more than half the reason this happened and it will not tolerate defeat or submission now that blood has been spilled.
If Russia had been given a new direction in a powerful alliance such as USA, India, Russia that pride could have been satisfied without killing a bunch of people and turning the world against it. Unfortunately we have had idiots for leaders for too long.
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@Sum1hugme
Save for all out conflict...Not a good option in my opinion....Would reunite the Russian people against "The West".
The general international response to the Putin regime, is working well.
Make sure that Ukraine has both military and humanitarian support, disenfranchise the Putin administration and show support and appreciation for all moderate Russians.
Disregard Russian State propaganda, and I think you will find that Putin has very few honest Russian admirers...If push comes to shove, allegiances will shift very quickly.
Young Russians are now a part of the global digital community, with little love of Putinesque cold war paranoia.
A Russian problem which must ultimately be resolved by the Russian people....And not by a U.S, Chinese or Indian President.
Make written deals with Russia to help them transition from being a petrostate without compromising their security. Though this is more of a international thing, not just US.
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@Lemming
Earth is a global pie in the sky/space and the invididual nations pitted aganist each other make it most serious game of complicated chess.
Putin wants a bigger piece of the pie and this will give him more control/power over the overall pie, via Ukraines resources.
Three options:
1}sanctions and condemnation, which will last for how long before Russias resources are needed by other countries and the sanctions begin to fall away .....time heals all...is old saying,
2} war, that, has a degree of potential greater dangers of nuclear this or that being involved,
3} accept reality while gritting our teeth at the criminal atrocities of human killing and societal despair.
I personally am not willing to go fight in that war, ergo, how can I ask, or expect others to go?
If I'm drafted by my government and told to go fight, would I go?
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@Sum1hugme
War seems too large a risk to me, (Nukes) though I wonder when Peace becomes too large a risk,
At a shallow glance, sanctions, gathering international support to condemn Russia, supporting Ukraine through supplies, volunteers in the Ukraine Legion,
Seem a logical way to go about it,
Even if not victorious, puts our money where our mouth is, helps in future situations, people know we do as we say.
If the current admin was smart it would do nothin, they caused the war based on all my independent research. Do your own searches if you can set aside your political confirmation bias for one second. The US govts hands are far dirtier and in no position to criticize a single country on this planet. That's my opinion.
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@sadolite
How did the US cause Russia to invade Ukraine?
Invest in US Military Industrial complex stocks.
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@Sum1hugme
How did the US cause Russia to invade Ukraine?
Most of the evidence is on Hunter Biden's laptop. USA heavily invested in the Ukrainian Oligarchs in an attempt to make Ukraine an American puppet state. That combined with a massive buildup of USA arms to the Ukraine putting culturally Russian Crimea at risk for a massive invasion.
They went over the line, and Putin was forced to act.
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@Greyparrot
Why was Putin forced to invade Ukraine? What about them having weapons justifies the invasion? Even with modern weapons, Ukraine couldn't hope to successfully invade Russia, so Russia was facing no existential threat.
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@Sum1hugme
Its about invading Crimea primarily, the other reason is having American weapons right on the border causes a serious problem for Russia.
None of this would have happened if the USA stopped trying to control the future of Ukraine with billions of dollars.
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@Sum1hugme
Let's put this in perspective. If China sent 5 billion dollars worth of arms to Mexico, should USA be worried?
What if China installs a Mexican president loyal to Beijing and fiercely anti-American? Does that pose a threat?
This is what America did to Ukraine.
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@Greyparrot
@Sum1hugme
Most of the evidence is on Hunter Biden's laptop. USA heavily invested in the Ukrainian Oligarchs in an attempt to make Ukraine an American puppet state.
I had not heard anything about that. I thought the laptop only established that Biden extorting money from Ukraine (in combination with other recorded statements).
The recording of Victoria Nuland casually planning the next government after the coup (what they call an insurrection on CNN) is what points to a desire to make a puppet state.
Why was Putin forced to invade Ukraine? What about them having weapons justifies the invasion? Even with modern weapons, Ukraine couldn't hope to successfully invade Russia, so Russia was facing no existential threat.
Let's put this in perspective. If China sent 5 billion dollars worth of arms to Mexico, should USA be worried?What if China installs a Mexican president loyal to Beijing and fiercely anti-American? Does that pose a threat?This is what America did to Ukraine.
There is perhaps a better example, Cuba; which was essentially a puppet state of the USSR. Like Ukraine enough of the people and enough of the military was in favor of this puppet-ship that there was no realistic way to turn the country away from the USSR peacefully.
Yet the United States did not turn it into a red-line issue until nuclear weapons were involved.
If there was a plan to provide Ukraine with nuclear or biological weapons I'll admit that the USA has invaded for the exact same reasons and has no leg to stand on.
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@Greyparrot
If China sent 5 billion dollars worth of arms to Mexico, should USA be worried?What if China installs a Mexican president loyal to Beijing and fiercely anti-American? Does that pose a threat?
Maybe a little worried, but even with modern conventional weapons and a Chinese friendly president, Mexico doesn't pose an existential threat to the US.
Neither of those are justification for a US invasion, because Mexico wouldn't pose an existential threat.
because Mexico wouldn't pose an existential threat.
It doesn't have to be "an existential threat" to warrant a military response. Just lowering the standard of living by half through dominating trade along the southern border would be enough to enrage Americans. Imagine gas at 20 dollars per gallon and food twice at where it is now, all because China controls Mexico.
Americans have gone to war for far less reasons.
Bottom line is that there is a very real price for America fucking about in Ukraine with both predictable and unintended consequences. All to make a dollar for American Oligarchs.
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@Greyparrot
An existential threat is necessary for a war of arms to be just. Ukraine did not pose an existential threat to Russia, therefore, the invasion is unjust.
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@Sum1hugme
Americans have gone to war for far less reasons.
And no war crime councils stopped America from doing it.
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@Greyparrot
That doesn't make those wars just.
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@Greyparrot
So Orange Grey Parrot stands with Ukraine, but is not willing to go die for Ukraine?
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@FLRW
Invest in US Military Industrial complex stocks.
Ha Ha, hey, didnt Eisenhower warn us but doing that? I guess Regans Star Wars may come back, that is asumming they ever really didnt happen.
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@Sum1hugme
And I am saying it doesn't matter, there were no consequences for any of America's unjust wars. There will be none for Russia as well.
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@Greyparrot
There have already been more consequences for Russians than the US has gotten over Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Serbia, etc...And I am saying it doesn't matter, there were no consequences for any of America's unjust wars. There will be none for Russia as well.
Just because you do the same thing doesn't mean you'll do the same time.
That's because it's all a sham, the sovereignty of nations that is. Nobody gives a shit about the sovereignty of nations and no one ever will. People are moved to action and judgement by emotion and ethics.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
America is an Empire in decline like the old British. Clearly we can't hang on to our puppet colonies.
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@Sum1hugme
By his own admission, Sadolite's independent research caused the U.S. to cause Russia to invade Ukraine.
Such is international politics and megalomania.
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@Greyparrot
The sad thing is, that most people just want to be culturally human.
But hey, we started making up sub-cultures, and the rot set in.
So perhaps a Sino-Russian dominated World would be the answer.
But then they would never f**king get on.
Too much f**king culture.
Humans are brilliant!
How should we handle it?
Do nothing.
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@Greyparrot
Consequences entail unnecessary loss of life. Plus wars like Vietnam, and other protracted, unjust wars, are difficult to maintain domestic war support for. If Grenada had dragged on, American support for the invasion would have tanked. Russia is suffering from international condemnation and sanctions, massive civil unrest, and the unnecessary loss of the lives of their soldiers in an unjust war of aggression.