Obama's new Show “The G Word” Is Big Government Propaganda
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24
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@Greyparrot
Hang on a second, GP. It would be propaganda if the opposition was silenced to have that youtube video up about it or make their own Netflix series against its narrative and agenda.
That is just an opinionated series, I think Obama can openly admit that it has opinions and not solely facts.
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@RationalMadman
In an age where every thought is "fact checked," no opinions are allowed to exist.
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@Greyparrot
I am not sure if you think you are being ironic and clever here but you are unironically the oppressive side here if you want that show banned.
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@RationalMadman
I don't think you understand what I mean. If state media "fact checks" opinions as they have been doing for 6 years, then there can be no free speech, and no free opinions.
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@RationalMadman
Actually propaganda is any media at all that is used to promote positions. But the key difference is that the point of propaganda is to defend or discredit something rather than promote truth.
I hardly think Obama is the right man to defend truth any more than Bush, Biden, or Ronald Reagan. They were all engaging in propaganda quite regularly.
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@Public-Choice
Thanks for your 2 cents. Care to compare the lies of each?
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@Public-Choice
It's like having your mom tell you how great you are.
I’ve never seen the show, but I’m going to guess politics are discussed in the show. Bold guess, I know; you can mail me my award soon.
To me, it matters not that Obama is giving his opinion. I agree with RM on that. What matters more is whether or not the same channel or studio would give an opposing opinion some kind of show alongside it. Otherwise, I’d agree more with Greyparrot here.
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@Mharman
Lol, so you have to advocate for the side you do not believe is good or correct in order to speak for the one you support, as a private showbusiness LLC or corporation?
Sounds like tyranny to me but you do you.
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@RationalMadman
Private companies can do whatever they want for the most part. That is not bothersome to me. I simply argue they cannot show only one side of the story and be above the term "propaganda." By all accounts, if they want to promote propaganda, they can promote propaganda. However, I'd be remiss to say they aren't in that case.
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@Mharman
You right-wing guys throw this term propaganda around a lot. Trump's entire political success was due to propaganda.
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@RationalMadman
I argue policy, as well as the sheer unlikeability of Hillary Clinton.
If you are referring to the Russiagate hoax, then that has been debunked long ago. If you are referring to right-wing outlets like Fox News, there is merit to your argument. I've grown more and more frustrated with Fox News over their lack of objectivity myself.
I'd also like to state my political beliefs have slightly changed. While I am solidly conservative, I have become solidly libertarian as well. I don't like the Republican Party as much as I used to, and I am continuing to trust them less and less. I prefer the Constitution Party, but they have no chance in any election I can vote in as it stands. So I tend to vote Republican.
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@RationalMadman
It would be propaganda if the opposition was silenced to have that youtube video up about it or make their own Netflix series against its narrative and agenda.
I disagree with this definition of propaganda. Plenty of people on the internet talking about how much they hated their experience in the military, but those go navy ads I get are still propaganda.
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@Mharman
If you are referring to the Russiagate hoax, then that has long been debunked.
No it was not debunked. The Mueller report, the intelligence agencies, all agree Russia meddled in the election to help Trump. Trump welcomed their help. People like Roger Stone and Paul Manafort were working with the Russians. Trump pardon these guys in return for their silence. The meeting in Trump Tower with Russians was part of the process of Trump looking for help from a foreign power.
Russia definitely hacked emails and passed them on to Wikileaks to help Trump get elected and undermine US elections.
Russia funneled foreign money into our election including money to the NRA.
“A spokesman for the NRA and its lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action, which together contributed $30 million to Trump’s presidential campaign, declined to comment on the FEC’s probe”
Eventually, Republicans on the FEC BOARD blocked the investigation. Trump was NOT exoneraged.
“It’s inexcusable that Republican commissioners would block an investigation into whether Russian money was funneled through the National Rifle Association to help President Trump,” Wyden continued, according to Newsweek. “The blatant partisanship is appalling, undermines our democracy and leaves us vulnerable to continued interference in 2020.”
Not debunked
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@Mharman
I am saying if we're running with this overly literal very (ironic term) libertarian application of the term 'propaganda' then let's appreciate that even with more severe versions, Trump relied entirely on it.
This is why in every single fucking debate that Trump is in, he needs to shout down his opponents and bully them, interjecting and babbling like the entitled brat he's always been. The moment he shuts up and lets the other speak equally to him, they floor him even in said debates to a more astute observer and yes I'm dissing the intelligence and comprehension levels of anybody who firstly thought he won the primaries and secondly thought he won the presidential debates either time.
Russiagate hasn't been debunked whatsoever, in fact Hunter Biden being linked to Ukraine and the way this war escalated is all pointing to the direction that there actually was somehow a 'taking sides' ethos going on there and that Russia actually was sided with Trump. People keep saying 'why didn't they invade while Trump was in power', they expected him to win the second term first of all and secondly, it benefits them to have a president in the US who won't cooperate, this way he looks like an economy-sabotaging warhawk for intervening so that he can appease his left-wing caring voter base who don't want him (Biden) to be a spineless coward vs a tyrant.
I am not interested in discussing further on that topic. I have looked into patterns enough to say I buy the idea that Putin's Kleptocracy and Trump had ties and that his (Trump's but also of course Putin's) opposition saw the Russian invasion of Ukraine coming many years back and had made moves trying to ensure it wouldn't go down, clearly not successfully.
You see 'corruption' and you always think evil but when you're against scum like Trump, Bushes and Reagan, you need to play their game to some degree. Don't even begin to pretend it wasn't the right-wing that were corrupt first, it is entirely a right-wing idea to be corrupt if you actually understand what libertarian capitalism enables.
As for 'propaganda' when you see the media against Trump your narrative is 'omg big bad elites against Trump'... Trump is an elite, he's as elite as they come. He was born and raised a spoilt white-supremacist (meaning he is severely racist) scumbag and will die that, just with more fame and wealth.
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@K_Michael
It would be propaganda if the opposition was silenced to have that youtube video up about it or make their own Netflix series against its narrative and agenda.I disagree with this definition of propaganda. Plenty of people on the internet talking about how much they hated their experience in the military, but those go navy ads I get are still propaganda.
Cool, so if that is literally all GP means in the thread's title, then this thread is basically saying that the anime Naruto is a shonen anime. Okay, thanks for telling us that.
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@RationalMadman
Cool, so if that is literally all GP means in the thread's title, then this thread is basically saying that the anime Naruto is a shonen anime. Okay, thanks for telling us that.
Eh, the Big Government part is still debatable. *shrugs* I do agree that saying a documentary made by a politician about politics is propaganda is far from a controversial take.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
I could get into this elsewhere, but for now, I'll say this:
The Mueller Report has since been revealed to be an effort to ruin the Trump campaign and his presidency. And with all that investigation, the best they could say was there was "no collusion from the Trump campaign with Russia." They ended the report with how none of their claims are proven, but none of their claims are unproven either. The latter half was simply to save face, and as we learn more about the origins of the investigation we find more evidence of it.
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@Mharman
The Mueller Report has since been revealed to be an effort to ruin the Trump campaign and his presidency.
That is also a lie.
When Trump asked Comey for loyalty and to let Michael Flynn go after he lied to the FBI about his conversations with Russians, Comey rebuffed Trump. So Trump fired Comey saying it was because he screwed over Hilary. It’s not normal to fire the Director of the FBI before his term is up without cause. Then Trump wanted to fire Christopher Ray too but people around him said that would be political suicide.
Trump is a subversive. Tearing down norms and institutions.
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@RationalMadman
I'd argue that in a political campaign, it is your job to convince a side. The same applies for Democrats as well. I don't look at that the same as I do the media. However, to say that Trump required outside help to win is unfounded and a stretch.
And you are correct when you say Trump hurt his campaign in interrupting Biden so often during the debates. But I think he beat Clinton in the 2016 debates overall. I argue it's the opposite. If she shuts up and interrupts sparingly, he's better in a debate.
Policy-wise, Trump did a lot that was appreciated. Most notably he was strong on the economy. Since Biden won, we've seen a horrible economy and corruption beyond belief. Every week that administration does something the MSM would've called for impeachment on if Trump ever did it. Arresting/investigating political opponents, invoking the Hatch Act to dodge questions, the whole Ukraine thing (also note that the Burisma oligarch served the administration Zelenskyy overthrew- Ukraine is not the same country today as it was in 2014)...
I've noticed a pattern of people close to Trump turning on him after the FBI goes after them. Some of the people around Trump may not have been free of corruption, but it's clear they're being used as a chip to get to him. It's a weaponization of the intelligence agencies, as it was from the start.
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@Greyparrot
Opinions are generally propositional and therefore not fact checkable as such.
Of course, if one intends to quote fact it's best to quote correctly.
Though if you're king Put or any counter propagandist, it's currently necessary to quote all sorts of inaccurate shit.
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@Mharman
Policy-wise, Trump did a lot that was appreciated. Most notably he was strong on the economy
What is the best measure of the health of an economy of we can't use GDP growth?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
What is the best measure of the health of an economy of we can't use GDP growth?
I can see why democrats don't want to talk about 3 quarters of consecutive negative GDP growth. Or the Stock market that has lost 9 trillion in value, or inflation that has imposed an 8% additional tax on all Americans.
How about we ask an expert like Oscar the Grouch?