Abortion

Author: TheUnderdog

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I don’t believe a zygote or embryo is a human being.  But I think a fetus is a human being.

In addition, Forbes states only 34% of the US population supports abortion being legal for 2nd trimester or more.

Because of this, I support a national abortion ban at 12 weeks into pregnancy.  If a state wants to ban all abortions (except for rape and maternal life), that’s fine; 39% of the country agrees with them.

Here is the compromise try at I support: National abortion ban at 12 weeks.  Every state must legalize abortion for rape victims up until 12 weeks (because abortion at that point is self defense; if I got raped, I’m not paying child support) and for maternal life up until the moment of birth (because I think maternal life outweighs fetal life for these rare cases).

The states are going to make their own laws regarding abortion in this framing.  If you want an abortion and you live in a red state, you must travel to a state that will perform your abortion.

Punishments for illegal abortion:

Any woman that gets a late term abortion (24 weeks or more) when their life or health did not require it and if there was no fetal defect should be put to death; that’s murder, and the penalty for murder should be death.  Since this is very few people, it’s pragmatic to implement this.  The fetus endured pain from that abortion (and it was a lot of pain), and since they had plenty of time to abort beforehand, the proper penalty is the same as stabbing an infant; the death penalty; especially when you can do a c section and be fine; late term abortions of healthy babies without the mother dying without an abortion should be punished with death.

The penalty for illegal abortions that aren’t late term should be a lifetime sales tax imposed upon both genders of the aborted baby equally (10%).  These abortions are common so they have to be treated as such.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Now you know I’m not a liberal.
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@TheUnderdog
Now you know I’m not a liberal.
There is no delineating factor of liberal or conservative in this debate. I am a constitutionalist conservative, and I am both pro-choice and pro-life. My final line is fetal viability.  And THAT should be the ONLY line for EVERYONE!!! 




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@TWS1405_2
My final line is fetal viability.  And THAT should be the ONLY line for EVERYONE!!! 
Not everyone agrees with your pro choice stance.

But if you support banning late term abortions, how would you punish those that do late term abortions?
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@TheUnderdog
Punishments for illegal abortion:

Any woman that gets a late term abortion (24 weeks or more) when their life or health did not require it and if there was no fetal defect should be put to death; that’s murder, and the penalty for murder should be death.
I do NOT agree with this penalty, but what I DO agree with is some measure of punishment OR more importantly, a restriction on abortion, if you cannot decide by week 19. It is the lowest week that a premature fetus has EVER survived. It should not be the litmus test, but a baseline. The final line should be between week 22-24; because those are the times that most medical professionals feel that a viable fetus will survive premature birth. 
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@TheUnderdog
But if you support banning late term abortions, how would you punish those that do late term abortions?
If there is no medical life saving measure, and they didn't decide before fetal viability, and there is no threat to the fetus itself, the ONLY so-called "punishment" they should receive is being forced to give birth and adopt if they do not want the birthed child. 

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@TWS1405_2
I do NOT agree with this penalty
What is your ideal penalty then?  If abortion is banned and tried as murder (which I’m assuming you believe late term abortion is murder), then you have to punish it just like murder.
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@TWS1405_2
ONLY so-called "punishment" they should receive is being forced to give birth and adopt if they do not want the birthed child. 
But they could abort illegally, so then you would have to punish the female that got the abortion.
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@TheUnderdog
What is your ideal penalty then?  If abortion is banned and tried as murder (which I’m assuming you believe late term abortion is murder), then you have to punish it just like murder.
Late term abortion cannot be murder by ANY legal standard. 

The 14th Amendment makes it perfectly clear, that all the laws, rights, privileges and equal protection of all laws does not apply until BIRTH! Therefore, abortion at any stage of pregnancy cannot and will never be, "murder." 
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@TheUnderdog
But they could abort illegally, so then you would have to punish the female that got the abortion.
That would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. 

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@TWS1405_2
The 14th Amendment makes it perfectly clear, that all the laws, rights, privileges and equal protection of all laws does not apply until BIRTH! 
The 14th amendment merely states one way to obtain citizenship.  It does not state who has the right to life or not.

That would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis.
If someone who could carry the baby to term without dying or having a fetal health condition aborted out of convienience, how specifically would you punish them?
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@TheUnderdog
03.06.2023 05:03PM
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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
The 14th Amendment makes it perfectly clear, that all the laws, rights, privileges and equal protection of all laws does not apply until BIRTH! 
The 14th amendment merely states one way to obtain citizenship.  It does not state who has the right to life or not.
Wrong. Typical uneducated opinion of the 14th. 


That would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis.
If someone who could carry the baby to term without dying or having a fetal health condition aborted out of convienience, (sic) how specifically would you punish them?
Honestly, I do not think/believe there is ANY precedence that would support such a punishment. Personal autonomy is paramount in the freedom of human individualism. 
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@TheUnderdog
This is my abortion argument in full.

In the case of abortion, you have to at the very least have a cutoff date, for when the mother cannot kill the child after that date.
But that date can't just be at random, there has to be a significance to that date. 
So, let's try what TWS1405_2 suggested:
Fetal viability

What does fetal viability mean? Let's look at the definition:
Fetal Viability: "The Fetus/Baby Is Viable Another term is a viable baby/fetus. This means that if the baby is born now, s/he has a reasonable chance of survival. For most hospitals in the United States, the age of viability is about 24 weeks (though more recently viability has been considered around 23 weeks)."

In other words, when the child is physically able to survive outside of the womb, without any physical need for growth.

So, the argument basically is:
If the baby cannot be viable outside the womb, then it is fine to kill, because it wouldn't be able to operate on its own anyways. 
Not viable = Okay to kill. 

But this doesn't work, because in order to make this an actual argument you have to look at all of the possibilities. 

Let's say a dude gets into a car crash and gets into a coma. The doctors know for sure that the man will wake up in approximately 9 months but won't retain any memories of his past. But he is in a coma, so he is not viable on his own, so he must be hooked to machines for that 9 months in order to stay alive.
The question is:
Would it be morally acceptable to kill this man?

If yes, then you just said it's fine to kill a coma patient.
If no, then you can't possibly think that fetal viability can be a cutoff for abortion. 

The fact is, you can keep pushing the cutoff date back, but it will all be a moral fallacy, all the way up until you get to conception. 
At conception, life is created. 

And I know that possibility does not equal definite outcome, but also, not giving life a chance to survive is killing life. 
If you plant a seed, it's possible that it might not grow, but it's still likely.
Now if you stomp out that seed or cut off the bud of the plant, then it has no chance of life at all.
So, by that definition you just took away any chance of life for that plant. 

Abortion is the same. Yea, sure a baby might not make it, but it's more like than not that it will. But if you abort it, that chance becomes 0. You literally just took away a chance of human life, for what?
Abortion is the ending of human life, because right from conception that life is human, and if you end it, then that is the ending of human life. 
At conception, it is biologically classified as human life. 

Abortion is the killing of young human life.
That sentence is not wrong in any way. 

And if you support abortion, then you support the killing of young human life. 
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@TheUnderdog
@TWS1405_2
Precedence set by Roe v Wade

Then the Supreme Court overturned it.

Sounds like your more of a die hard personal autonomy/property rights libertarian. 

Roe v Wade Argument 
Personal autonomy outweighs right to life. Same old arguments for abortion repeated. 

14th Amendment does not explicitly state anything about the rights of a person before they are born. Not stated elsewhere in the constitution, I believe.

The right of bodily autonomy is held higher by some than the right to life. 

If you want the right to abortion, then make another constitution Amendment. Stop playing interpretation games. They're not very Constitutional if you ask me.
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@TWS1405_2
I made this mistake above too. It doesn't make sense to talk about the rights of person until they're born, except for their right to life. A right to Abortion needs to be addressed in the Constitution. 

Perhaps, the founders never wanted a federal constitutional right pro or con abortion.
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@TWS1405_2
Wrong. Typical uneducated opinion of the 14th. 
If that was the only way someone became a citizen, then it would be impossible to become a citizen from a foreign country.  The 14th amendment was written for slaves; not to exclude the unborn.

Honestly, I do not think/believe there is ANY precedence that would support such a punishment. Personal autonomy is paramount in the freedom of human individualism.
If you don’t believe in punishment for late term  abortion, this is the same as legalizing late term abortion.  If you have this opinion, only 19% of the country agrees with you.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Let's say a dude gets into a car crash and gets into a coma. The doctors know for sure that the man will wake up in approximately 9 months but won't retain any memories of his past. But he is in a coma, so he is not viable on his own, so he must be hooked to machines for that 9 months in order to stay alive.
The question is:
Would it be morally acceptable to kill this man?
If you answer no to this question, I wouldn’t want my taxes raised to pay for him being on a machine.  Life support costs like $10,000 a day.  I’m not paying that with insurance hikes.

At conception, life is created.
Do you have any peer reviewed evidence that confirms a zygote is a human being?  If a zygote was a human being, then scientists wouldn’t do IVF because of all the embryos that have to die for it.  

People may care a lot about abortion and politicians talk about banning abortion, but IVF isn’t talked about to nearly the same extent even though many embryos die from IVF.  Texas both banned abortion but legalized killing embryos if it’s for IVF.  This is inconsistent.  The scientists know what is a human being better than either of us, and if they kill embryos for pregnancy, it’s safe to assume they don’t believe embryos are human.

Yea, sure a baby might not make it, but it's more like than not that it will. But if you abort it, that chance becomes 0. You literally just took away a chance of human life, for what?
Your sperm cells have the potential to be a human life.  You’re not treated as a human being until you are in fact a human being.  Just like I’m not going to treat a college student as a college grad until they actually become one.


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@CoolApe
Sounds like you’re more of a die hard personal autonomy/property rights libertarian. 
I lean libetarian on immigration, war vaccines, weed, and drugs in general, but I don’t think abortion is the same.  If abortion does indeed kill a human being, it needs to be prosecuted to some extent.  You just can’t make it a big penalty because it’s common unfortunately.  If you have the death penalty for all abortions, even those that are 6 weeks into pregnancy, one in six women are getting executed.  Everyone knows someone that had an abortion, so it’s not pragmatic to kill ANYONE who has had an abortion.  But late term abortions (24 weeks or later) are rare enough to make the death penalty for them feisable.

Personal autonomy outweighs right to life. Same old arguments for abortion repeated. 
This belief taken to its logical conclusion would legalize abortion up until the moment of birth (which Roe did not protect and only 19% of the country agrees with).  So there are limits to bodily autonomy.  It also would legalize assault, since me assaulting someone is an expression of my bodily autonomy if you value bodily autonomy so much that your willing to kill someone to exercise it.

A right to Abortion needs to be addressed in the Constitution.
If there was an amendment that outlawed abortion, the pro choicers are going to want it repealed and if there is an amendment that legalized abortion to any extent, the pro lifers are going to want it repealed.  Such an amendment wouldn’t last.  But I think you can get away with a constitutional amendment that outlaws abortion beyond 12 weeks everywhere in the country (and prosecuted late term abortion like murder).

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
Wrong. Typical uneducated opinion of the 14th. 
If that was the only way someone became a citizen, then it would be impossible to become a citizen from a foreign country.  The 14th amendment was written for slaves; not to exclude the unborn.
Like I said, an uneducated opinion of the 14th. 

The 14th was not written just for former slaves and their offspring; but rather it provides due process and equal protection of the laws upon "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."

One must be BORN before they are FIRST, considered a "person," and SECOND, being a born "person," they are bestowed all the rights, privileges and equal protections of the law(s). NOT BEFORE BIRTH! The pregnancy, regardless of stage of development, has NO RIGHTS, legal or otherwise. 

Honestly, I do not think/believe there is ANY precedence that would support such a punishment. Personal autonomy is paramount in the freedom of human individualism.
If you don’t believe in punishment for late term  abortion, this is the same as legalizing late term abortion.  If you have this opinion, only 19% of the country agrees with you.

Strawman fallacy. 
I never said that I did not believe in punishment...see and re-read the bolded portion, again. 

If that was the only way someone became a citizen, then it would be impossible to become a citizen from a foreign country.  
Like I said, an uneducated opinion of the 14th. 

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
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@YouFound_Lxam
In other words, when the child is physically able to survive outside of the womb, without any physical need for growth.

So, the argument basically is:
If the baby cannot be viable outside the womb, then it is fine to kill, because it wouldn't be able to operate on its own anyways. 
Not viable = Okay to kill. 

But this doesn't work, because in order to make this an actual argument you have to look at all of the possibilities. 

Let's say a dude gets into a car crash and gets into a coma. The doctors know for sure that the man will wake up in approximately 9 months but won't retain any memories of his past. But he is in a coma, so he is not viable on his own, so he must be hooked to machines for that 9 months in order to stay alive.
The question is:
Would it be morally acceptable to kill this man?
False equivalency fallacy.

I have told you this before. And I will tell you this again.

You CANNOT compare a pregnancy for any reason to a person already born. The latter has all the rights, privileges and equal protection of the law whereas the former does not. As such, the man in a coma cannot be killed because murder is morally wrong. Terminating a pregnancy is morally acceptable. 

And you need to stop using misnomers in your arguments. A fetus, viable or not, is NOT [a] "baby." 

Abortion is the killing of young human life.
That sentence is not wrong in any way. 
Yeah, it is. Chalked full of misnomers. 
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.
A pregnancy is not defined by the term "young" at any gestational development.
A pregnancy is not a "young human life." This phrase implicitly implying this, by definition. 
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@TheUnderdog
If you answer no to this question, I wouldn’t want my taxes raised to pay for him being on a machine.  Life support costs like $10,000 a day.  I’m not paying that with insurance hikes.
Ok, well I'm not talking about the financial aspects of it, it's more of a moral assessment. 

Do you have any peer reviewed evidence that confirms a zygote is a human being?  If a zygote was a human being, then scientists wouldn’t do IVF because of all the embryos that have to die for it.  
Zygote: a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes.

A zygote is a human life, by definition. 

If I bake a cake, and it's still in the oven cooking, what would I call it?
If it's not a cake, then what is it. 

The cake cooking in the oven is an uncooked cake, but still a cake.

Therefore, a zygote in the womb is an underdeveloped human, but still a human. 

Your sperm cells have the potential to be a human life.  You’re not treated as a human being until you are in fact a human being.  Just like I’m not going to treat a college student as a college grad until they actually become one.
Sperm cells have the potential to be a human life, only when combined with a woman's egg. 
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@TWS1405_2
You CANNOT compare a pregnancy for any reason to a person already born.
Why not? 

The latter has all the rights, privileges and equal protection of the law whereas the former does not.
The law does not have moral authority over moral arguments. 
My question was a moral argument question, not abiding by any law. 

The law is good at keeping peace through moral values but is not a valid source when arguing morality. 

The law does not subjugate what is valuable, and what is not, when it comes to moral authority. If we let the law do that, the government would have control over our whole lives. The laws only job is to keep peace, not define what is valuable. 

And you need to stop using misnomers in your arguments. A fetus, viable or not, is NOT [a] "baby." 
Well, it is a baby. I will continue to use the word baby; in the same way you use the word terminate to make the word killing sound better. 

Yeah, it is. Chalked full of misnomers. 
Enlighten me. 

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.
Yes. This is factual. 

A pregnancy is not defined by the term "young" at any gestational development.
Yes, it is. You can't take away states in time just to help your argument.
A pregnancy closer to conception than birth is younger than the months, weeks, or days that come after it. 

A pregnancy is not a "young human life." This phrase implicitly implying this, by definition. 
The phrase isn't implying an 8-year-old little girl. 

The phrase is true. Just because abortion is sad, and you don't want to accept that, doesn't mean you get to say my definition is wrong.

Where exactly is my definition:
Abortion: The killing of a young human life.
Wrong?

Killing: an act of causing death, especially deliberately:
Young: having lived or existed for only a short time:
Human: relating to or characteristic of people or human beings:
Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death:

Abortion: The act of causing death, deliberately on an organism that relates to humans, and has only existed for only a short time. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Let's say a dude gets into a car crash and gets into a coma. The doctors know for sure that the man will wake up in approximately 9 months but won't retain any memories of his past. But he is in a coma, so he is not viable on his own, so he must be hooked to machines for that 9 months in order to stay alive.
The question is:
Would it be morally acceptable to kill this man?
Machines do not have bodily autonomy.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Do you have any peer reviewed evidence that confirms a zygote is a human being?  If a zygote was a human being, then scientists wouldn’t do IVF because of all the embryos that have to die for it.  
Zygote: a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes.

A zygote is a human life, by definition. 
Nowhere in that italicized definition does it categorically state that the zygote is [a] human being, which is what he asked for. Nor within that definition does it equally categorically state that the zygote is [a] human life (which = [a] human being) either. {[a] human life is synonymous with [a] human being}

If I bake a cake, and it's still in the oven cooking, what would I call it?
If it's not a cake, then what is it. 
Your ignorance is showing with this piss poor analogy that is a false equivalency to a pregnant girl/woman. 

Your sperm cells have the potential to be a human life.  You’re not treated as a human being until you are in fact a human being.  Just like I’m not going to treat a college student as a college grad until they actually become one.
Sperm cells have the potential to be a human life, only when combined with a woman's egg. 
Sperm meet the same basics criteria for life as a zygote does. Sperm from a human is human in origin. Does that make sperm a human life? According to your (il)logic, it does. 

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
You CANNOT compare a pregnancy for any reason to a person already born.
Why not? 
I explained why within my response. Cherry picking agian?

The latter has all the rights, privileges and equal protection of the law whereas the former does not.
The law does not have moral authority over moral arguments. 
My question was a moral argument question, not abiding by any law. 
Definitions:
Moral authority - the quality or characteristic of being respected for having good character or knowledge, especially as a source of guidance or an exemplar of proper conduct. 
Moral argument - is an argument with a conclusion that expresses a moral claim. 
Types of moral claims - here

Actually, the law does have moral authority over so-called moral arguments.  Epic fail there on your part. 


The law is good at keeping peace through moral values but is not a valid source when arguing morality. 
I suggest you look at the definition of moral authority again. lol 


The law does not subjugate what is valuable, and what is not, when it comes to moral authority. If we let the law do that, the government would have control over our whole lives. The laws only job is to keep peace, not define what is valuable. 
Again, I suggest that you look at the definition of what moral authority is.... again. lol 

And you need to stop using misnomers in your arguments. A fetus, viable or not, is NOT [a] "baby." 
Well, it is a baby. I will continue to use the word baby; in the same way you use the word terminate to make the word killing sound better. 
A newspaper opinion piece is not credible scientific evidence, nor is the incorrect interpretation of the science any more credible. 
A pregnancy is NOT [a] baby. And I do not care what the dictionary says, as it can be manipulated to say whatever floats your boat, just like the definition of woman being changed to float the boats of trans-activists. Dictionaries are not credible anymore, no more than MSM can ever be considered credible anymore, either. 

Also, you're missing the reality of context. Words have meaning, and their meaning is dictated by the context in which they are used.
In the context of the abortion topic:
A zygote =/= [a] baby
A blastocyst =/= [a] baby
An embryo =/= [a] baby
An unviable fetus =/= [a] baby

Since you suck at proper analogies, here is a proper use of an analogy to compare things that =/= along the lines of potentiality =/= actuality (never has, never will):
An acorn =/= an oak tree
An apple seed =/= an apple tree
A chunk of coal =/= [a] diamond
A log of wood =/= charcoal
A tadpole =/= [a] frog 
A framed property =/= [a] house
A zygote of human origin =/= [a] human being or [a] baby

Yeah, it is. Chalked full of misnomers. 
Enlighten me. 
Reading comprehension problems?
I already did within the same comment.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.
Yes. This is factual. 
Wow, you actually can admit to the facts of the matter. Amazing.

A pregnancy is not defined by the term "young" at any gestational development.
Yes, it is.
No, it is not.

You can't take away states in time just to help your argument.
A pregnancy closer to conception than birth is younger than the months, weeks, or days that come after it. 
No one ever called or identified a zygote as a young human life, or young human being. Or young anything. No one, ever. 

A pregnancy is not a "young human life." This phrase implicitly implying this, by definition. 
The phrase isn't implying an 8-year-old little girl. 

The phrase is true. Just because abortion is sad, and you don't want to accept that, doesn't mean you get to say my definition is wrong.

Where exactly is my definition:
Abortion: The killing of a young human life.
Wrong?

Killing: an act of causing death, especially deliberately:
Young: having lived or existed for only a short time:
Human: relating to or characteristic of people or human beings:
Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death:

Abortion: The act of causing death, deliberately on an organism that relates to humans, and has only existed for only a short time. 
Yes, that phrase does imply [a] "young human life," which includes an 8-year old little girl. Are you denying she is young and [a] human life"? Clearly you are: "The phrase isn't implying an 8-year-old little girl. "

Your definition is wrong, and demonstrably so. 

Abortion is not defined as "the killing of a young human life," not anywhere you will ever find it in those exact quoted words. Nowhere. 

An abortion terminates a pregnancy. A pregnancy is a developmental process. It's the process being terminated. The process cannot be killed. 

As before, as is now. Your ignorance on the subject matter of abortion is constant. 

Another constant all members can expect is more Dunning-Kruger Effect retorts from you. 
CoolApe
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@TWS1405_2
The 14th was not written just for former slaves and their offspring; but rather it provides due process and equal protection of the laws upon "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."

One must be BORN before they are FIRST, considered a "person," and SECOND, being a born "person," they are bestowed all the rights, privileges and equal protections of the law(s). NOT BEFORE BIRTH! The pregnancy, regardless of stage of development, has NO RIGHTS, legal or otherwise. 

Excerpt above is your opinion about the constitution. Stupid to bold three words and say this is what the 14th amendment is all about. 14th Amendment is clearly about slavery and what counts as citizenship in the United States. The correct argument for abortion:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Roe's argument is about the right to privacy and bodily autonomy, which is implied by the rights to life, liberty, or property.

The first three words of the 14th Amendment are in context with "are you born in the United States" and now you count as a citizen. Therefore, a prior slave born in the United States is counted as citizen by the constitution. 

Roe convinced the Supreme court that the pregnancy has no constitutional rights because the women's right to bodily autonomy outweighs any other arguments.

Now that Roe V Wade is overturned, A new precedent is now being set that the States determine if pregnancy has a legal right to life to any extent. Depending on what a one implies by personhood, set of rights and how one ranks them, there can be contradictions and invalid interpretations due to insufficient information in the constitution.

This makes abortion right arguments just an opinion from a constitutional standpoint for lack of better information.

Best to leave it the States to decide an ambiguous and left out part of the constitution. Also, the federal government has no right to get involved in other States unless congress can codify abortion into law. 

You can argue against personhood of pregnancy and support an argument about not including pregnancies' as people, so that they shouldn't be granted legal rights. The Constitution doesn't tell us if a pregnancy is person or not, so your definition will need to rely on different arguments. Faulty logic to say a person isn't a person until their born because the constitution implies it. It's because of Roe. The current law is fickle on personhood and depends on who is in power.

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@CoolApe
What’s your legal background? None. Thanks. 

Mine. Criminology degree. Minor: constitutional law. 
Worked in LE. Worked for a DA. Student of legal and political science history. 

The 14th goes beyond slavery. 

SCOTUS interpretation of 14th for RvW was flawed from get go. Citing them for that is ignorant. 

The Constitution doesn't tell us if a pregnancy is person or not
Yea it does you clown. It’s in the use of the verb “born,” ffs. Can’t be a pregnancy if you’re born. And to be a person you just be born. Being born = personhood. Anything prior to being born ≠ personhood. 
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@TWS1405_2
Since your legal expert
A few questions 

Does the 14th Amendment protect Abortion?
Is this covered under original intent or not?

What do you think of States banning abortion? Constitutional/unconstitutional?


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@TWS1405_2
Nowhere in that italicized definition does it categorically state that the zygote is [a] human being, which is what he asked for. Nor within that definition does it equally categorically state that the zygote is [a] human life (which = [a] human being) either. {[a] human life is synonymous with [a] human being}
A zygote is human DNA, that is not part of the mother's body, and is different DNA entirely. 
Therefore, a zygote by definition is a human being. 

Question:
What definition do you have of human being. 
What aspects do you have to have in order to be a human being?

Your ignorance is showing with this piss poor analogy that is a false equivalency to a pregnant girl/woman. 
You can't answer the question, without contradicting what you are arguing, can you? 

Sperm meet the same basics criteria for life as a zygote does. Sperm from a human is human in origin. Does that make sperm a human life? According to your (il)logic, it does. 
Sperm by itself does not have the capability for human life. A female egg does not have the capability of human life by itself. 
But when combined, the combination of the two does have the capability of human life. 

If you put sperm cells in a woman, with no egg, there will never be a baby. 
But if you add a female egg to the equation, you will get a baby. 

I explained why within my response. Cherry picking agian?
Ok, well you said," 
"The latter has all the rights, privileges and equal protection of the law whereas the former does not. As such, the man in a coma cannot be killed because murder is morally wrong."

But as I said before, we are not arguing law, we are arguing morality. 
Is it morally right to exterminate a zygote or a fetus. Not lawfully. Morally. 

Moral authority - the quality or characteristic of being respected for having good character or knowledge, especially as a source of guidance or an exemplar of proper conduct. 
Moral argument - is an argument with a conclusion that expresses a moral claim. 
Types of moral claims - here

Actually, the law does have moral authority over so-called moral arguments.  Epic fail there on your part. 
The law enforcers certain obvious moral principles. It does not create them. Therefore, the law not protecting zygotes and fetuses through legal standards, does not take authority over controversial moral arguments and discussions. 

But if you want to bring the law into this, the law in some states does protect, babies in the womb by law. 
So, your arguments kind of busted there. 

If you're going to argue, you can't just say," Well the law says so, so it must be right." 
Because if everyone did that, you wouldn't have any political parties. 

The law is not the supreme moral authority, it enforces certain moral principles that some hold dear, and what others hold dear compared to what you hold dear can differ, therefore that is why some states ban abortion, and some states allow it. 

For many years in this country, slavery was legal. Does that make slavery morally ok? 

A pregnancy is NOT [a] baby. And I do not care what the dictionary says, as it can be manipulated to say whatever floats your boat, just like the definition of woman being changed to float the boats of trans-activists. Dictionaries are not credible anymore, no more than MSM can ever be considered credible anymore, either. 
Old dictionaries are though. Use those. We still have those archived. 

Yes, a pregnancy is not a baby by definition (trying to be smart), but it does hold a baby. 

Also, you're missing the reality of context. Words have meaning, and their meaning is dictated by the context in which they are used.
In the context of the abortion topic:
A zygote =/= [a] baby
A blastocyst =/= [a] baby
An embryo =/= [a] baby
An unviable fetus =/= [a] baby

Since you suck at proper analogies, here is a proper use of an analogy to compare things that =/= along the lines of potentiality =/= actuality (never has, never will):
An acorn =/= an oak tree
An apple seed =/= an apple tree
A chunk of coal =/= [a] diamond
A log of wood =/= charcoal
A tadpole =/= [a] frog 
A framed property =/= [a] house
A zygote of human origin =/= [a] human being or [a] baby
This is a dumb comparison. And easily taken down. 

A zygote by definition is biologically alive.

A chunk of coal is not biologically alive. 
a log of wood is not biologically alive. 
a framed property is not biologically alive.

Now that we have taken out the non-living things, because they don't compare to a living thing in any way shape or form, we can now move on to the living things.

An acorn is alive, and with the proper setting can grow to the size of an oak tree. So, there is an oak tree inside of an acorn, just not grown yet. 
So, by definition an acorn is just a smaller, and less developed version of an oak tree. 

Same goes for a tadpole, and a frog.
Same goes for an apple seed to an apple.
And same goes for a zygote of human origin and a human being, or baby. 

No one ever called or identified a zygote as a young human life, or young human being. Or young anything. No one, ever. 
Yes, people have.

It is by definition a young human life.

Young: having lived or existed for only a short time:
Human: relating to or characteristic of people or human beings:
Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death:

So, a zygote is by definition a life form that relates to humans, and has the capacity for growth, death, and has only existed for a short time. 

A zygote is a young human life. 

Yes, that phrase does imply [a] "young human life," which includes an 8-year old little girl. Are you denying she is young and [a] human life"? Clearly you are: "The phrase isn't implying an 8-year-old little girl. "
Nope. 
A young human life is what one considers young. 
If you consider young to be only 2 years old, then anything above that could be young.

So yes, this little girl is a young human life, but so is a zygote, if you consider that little girl a young human life, then any age below hers is young. 

Abortion is not defined as "the killing of a young human life," not anywhere you will ever find it in those exact quoted words. Nowhere. 

An abortion terminates a pregnancy. A pregnancy is a developmental process. It's the process being terminated. The process cannot be killed. 
You're acting as if the words terminate, and kill are two different words in this instance.

Every process has a reason to function. If you take away that reason, then the process is terminated.
In this case the baby/fetus/zygote, is the reason for the process, so that the baby can develop. 
In order to terminate the process, you have to take away the reason to process.
In the case of pregnancy, you have to take away/terminate the baby/fetus/zygote, in order to terminate the pregnancy. 
There is a source for this process. Understand that. 

And (just by "dumb luck" I guess) the source of a pregnancy that you have to terminate is in fact alive and what is the definition of killing again?
Killing: an act of causing death, especially deliberately:
It just so happens that an abortion causes death to the biologically alive source of the pregnancy, deliberately

So again, by definition, the word termination used (in this instance), is the same as killing. 
YouFound_Lxam
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@Double_R
Machines do not have bodily autonomy.
I'm not talking about bodily autonomy right now; I am talking about the moral killing of the human in this example, and asking if it is ok to kill that human. 

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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
Since your legal expert
A few questions 

Does the 14th Amendment protect Abortion? 
Is this covered under original intent or not?

What do you think of States banning abortion? Constitutional/unconstitutional?

What part of what I wrote here:

“SCOTUS interpretation of 14th for RvW was flawed from get go.”

Did you not understand? 

Again, a pregnancy has NO legal rights. 
A [person] has legal rights. 
A [person] who has legal rights must first be born to be a person under the eyes of the very laws which protect that person. 
A pregnancy is NOT [a] person. 

And since a pregnancy is not a person, the state has no standing to tell an actual person what they can and cannot do with their own body.