The conflation between when DeSantis said Florida is where woke goes to die

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 18
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,261
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
I’ve noticed that the word, “woke” is defined very differently by the left and right

The left defines woke as being aware of racial struggles.  The right defines it as political correctness and sensitive outrage against people for opinions.

The dictionary definitions, like most definitions, lets the left have their way because the left makes up the majority of America’s population.  But I think DeSantis viewed the term in the right wing definition, which is pink haired college kid who gets offended when Ben Shapiro talks about his ideas.

I don’t think DeSantis should have said Florida is where woke goes to die if the left is correct on what it means to be woke.  But there needs to be a new term to describe the pink haired gender studies major who gets offended at everything right wingers and their supporters say.  Whatever that term is, “call it snowflake”, or DeSantis said Florida is where snowflakes go to melt, would it still be offensive?  Surely we can all be against snowflakes.

When I refer to snowflakes, I do not refer to BLM supporters, Medicare for all supporters, or supporters of any left wing cause.  I refer to people that block over political disagreement and people that are unwilling to hear opinions they dislike, whether left or right.  Some of the biggest snowflakes I have met are on the right.  I got kicked out of a GOP club for being anti war and anti ICE and leaning into these talking points under the justification of small government (now they all oppose the war in Ukraine, but still want to fund our military a lot for no reason other than a false sense of safety).  Those people are snowflakes, and Florida should be where they go to melt too.  But there are many people on the left that are snowflakes and they should ALSO be called out on it.

Love your neighbor.  It doesn’t matter if they are right wing, left wing, LGBT, unvaccinated, undocumented, pro life, pro choice, believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, believe Caitlyn Jenner is a man.  As long as they are a good person that doesn’t harm anyone else and that treats others well, you do the same.

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,928
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
lets not mince terms here.

Woke is another word for racism.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,261
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@Greyparrot
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke states the definition of woke is the left wing definition.

Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,205
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
I've generally just 'assumed woke is supposed to be awake  to X social injustices,
X being whatever the 'woke person claims is a social injustice,
But I've never really looked deep into it.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,261
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@Lemming
I've assumed woke to be "anti (sensitive college kid with purple hair)".
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,928
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
You clearly did not read the article. Why waste your time here.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,261
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@Greyparrot
The article was using the right wing definition for woke.  That's not the official definition though.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,269
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lemming
I share your assumption.

And also your lack of depth on the subject.


And I would suggest that Mr DeSantis functions relative to his own personal hormone and data management diktats. Same as most people, but variable in output relative to expected benefit, as only we should expect.

And if people vote for Mr DeSantis, they will have put a cross on a piece of paper, because they thought that it was a good thing to do at the time. And if enough people do the same, then Mr DeSantis will have achieved his objective. Temporary Alfa-Male status.


Though basically  "woke" is a dialect corruption of the English language. Sort of a cool and trendily alternative way of saying awake.

And the dog barks woke and the flock bleats woooooooke. 

What it is to be human.


Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,928
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
You didn't read the article. It didn't define anything, only provided a timeline of events.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,008
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
You might be right on how it started, but that's not how it's used now. Quit worrying about the dictionary definition of things, bro. Look at how the word is used, that's what a definition is, as demonstrated in this case, in my view. Please understand what follows here is not directed at "you" specifically, I broadly agree with the sentiment of your post, but the usage of the word in its current context is no longer anything to do with being aware of racial / social inequality in society.

People on the left aren't the ones even using this word in the context you're talking about. When was the last time you heard a person you'd describe as a liberal or a democrat going around  saying "Let's get more woke!" or "I need more woke amusement parks!"? They aren't, at all. It's become strictly some code word / dog whistle used by conservatives, particularly conservative politicians, that encapsulates vague outrage about anything that's different from what they are, and there's an added level of invective in it because black people brought it into the lexicon, if you ask me. Look at some of the weird outrage around Rhianna's superbowl performance. Why are republican politicians calling that "woke"? Why is a teacher being able to put his or her same sex partner's picture on their desk at a public school "woke"? 

But there needs to be a new term to describe the pink haired gender studies major who gets offended at everything right wingers and their supporters say.
Why? Can't this just be someone who disagrees with you? Is it the fact that they take offense that offends you, or the fact that some mealy mouthed condescension doesn't placate them back into their college dorm room? I'm not saying it's not okay to be annoyed by the disagreement, but why the "pink haired gender studies major" qualifier? Because it looks like that just means not only do they disagree with you, they are different from you, they want representation and to be respected as an equal, and therefore they are "woke."   

Love your neighbor.  It doesn’t matter if they are right wing, left wing, LGBT, unvaccinated, undocumented, pro life, pro choice, believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, believe Caitlyn Jenner is a man.  As long as they are a good person that doesn’t harm anyone else and that treats others well, you do the same.
A pretty decent way to look at the world. Just remember that people who disagree with you aren't mortal enemies because of it, and they don't need to be extinguished. Until someone threatens one of your liberties, they're allowed to disagree and do so rudely if they are so inclined. 
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Harvey LeRoy "LeeAtwater  was an American political consultant and strategist for the Republican Party. He was an adviser to Republican U.S. presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and chairman of the Republican National Committee. Atwater aroused controversy through his aggressive campaign tactics, especially the Southern strategy.

Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968, you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner.
(Wikipedia: Lee Atwater)
In 2023, busing is no longer an issue and Republicans have essentially flipped on states' rights so the new abstractions are CRT, BLM, Woke, etc.  Republicans demonstrate little understanding of the original concept but they have no problem understanding that these abstractions are code for black people and that's all Repubicans need to know to express opposition.

For example,  we have the only black Republican in the Senate, Tim Scott, saying the other day ""Woke supremacy is as bad as white supremacy. We need to take that seriously."  Never mind that nobody bothers to define woke supremacy, never mind that White Supremacists are a tiny group that has committed 335 murders over the past 10 years while I don't know that Scott could even put together a coherent explanation for what a Woke supremacist idealogical murder might look like.  Fortunately for Scott, he doesn't have define anything.  All FOX viewers need to know is that it is some kind of black ideology for them to know how they feel about it.

Among American conservatives, woke has come to be used primarily as an insult.   Perry Bacon Jr. suggests that this "anti-woke posture" is connected to a long-standing promotion of backlash politics by the Republican Party, wherein it promotes white and conservative fear in response to activism by African Americans as well as changing cultural norms.  Such critics often believe that movements such as Black Lives Matter exaggerate the extent of social problems.

Linguist and social critic John McWhorter argues that the history of woke is similar to that of politically correct, another term once used self-descriptively by the left which was appropriated by the right as an insult, in a process similar to the euphemism treadmill.  Romano compares woke to canceled as a term for "'political correctness' gone awry" among the American right wing. Attacking the idea of wokeness, along with other ideas such as cancel culture and critical race theory,  became a large part of Republican Party electoral strategy. Former President Donald Trump stated in 2021 that the Biden administration was "destroying" the country "with woke", and Republican Missouri senator Josh Hawley used the term to promote his upcoming book by saying the "woke mob" was trying to suppress it.
(Wikipedia: woke)





cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,094
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
When DeSantis makes that claim, “woke” means racial indoctrination in primary education, the racial victimhood narrative, the racial equity agenda, and the anti-white narrative… and I applaud him for it.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,261
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
You do that.  But I don’t think people should get angry at people for believing blacks are oppressed.

cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,094
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
Opposition does not necessarily equal anger. From the “anti-woke”, I only see anger manifest when people’s children are indoctrinated in ideology without their knowledge or permission.

oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@cristo71
-->
@TheUnderdog
Opposition does not necessarily equal anger.   
  • But calling for the death of an ideology (i.e. where woke goes to die) does necessarily equal anger.
    • You must admit that DeSantis and his followers are at least pretending to be angry about something.
From the “anti-woke”, I only see anger manifest when people’s children are indoctrinated in ideology without their knowledge or permission.
  • Please give a very specific example- name a Florida school that that INDOCTRINATED (indoctrinated means beliefs (not facts) without a critical framework) children (K-12) in a belief system without their parents knowledge or permission.


cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,094
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@oromagi
  • You must admit that DeSantis and his followers are at least pretending to be angry about something.
Underdog was saying “people shouldn’t get angry at people for believing…” (bold added)

To clarify, I should have said that opposition to a certain ideology doesn’t necessarily mean anger directed toward people believing a certain way. Perhaps you should be asking Underdog to show evidence where DeSantis is directing anger (ie hostility) towards individual people over this?

But calling for the death of an ideology (i.e. where woke goes to die) does necessarily equal anger
You are not understanding the use of metaphoric and hyperbolic speech for effect here. Lighten up a bit.

Please give a very specific example- name a Florida school that that INDOCTRINATED (indoctrinated means beliefs (not facts) without a critical framework) children (K-12) in a belief system without their parents knowledge or permission.
You already referred to “woke” as an ideology above. Teaching children ideology uncritically is indoctrination. Now, you want examples of such a thing where such a thing is actively being prevented? 
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,928
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
The rage is over the deception, not the doctrine.


Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,928
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
Also, Florida is the number one place for people in general to go to die, so why be upset when woke joins them in retirement?