“Israel My People”

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  • Stephen
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    “Israel mypeople”.

    Jews As God's Own Chosen People.

    There are over 20 verses in the Old Testament where god speaks of “his chosen” people.
    Including
    "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”.Deuteronomy 7:6-8

    And

    "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples”.Deuteronomy 14:2

    So, there is no getting away from the fact that here god has made it quite clear that the people of Israel – Jews: have been especially chosen and singled out to be his favourites out of “ALL THE PEOPLES” of the known world.

    Christians will no doubt try to argue - ‘but there was a new covenant” when Jesus was born and this now includes Christians: while ignoring the stone cold fact, that (1) Jesus was a Jew. (2) There were no Christians in his lifetime. (3) Jesus the Jew only cared about his own Jew kind. These are facts.Jesus and god were what we call today – racist and christianophobes.
     
     

  • Mopac
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    The Orthodox Church actually sees itself as a continuation of this. The Christian race is now God's chosen people. 

    It is written in Acts...

    "the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith."

    The Orthodox Church has priests still, contemporary Judaism does not. The temple worship that is practiced by Orthodox today is modeled a great deal after ancient Judaic temple worship. It is different, but similar. It is a continuation.




    So it isn't that the new covenant now includes Christians. Orthodox Christianity is the fulfillment and continuation of ancient Israel.

    The people that call themselves Jews today are descendant of pharisaical Judaism. They are of course, welcome at any time to accept Jesus Christ, and we Orthodox have no ill will toward them... 

    ...on that note, before the modern state of Israel was formed, most Palestinians were Christian, and they were forced out of their homes and sent into diasphora.


    People talk about the "6 million Jews" killed in the holocaust(which was horrible, and we Orthodox were helping them escape) but over 20 million Orthodox Christians were martyred in the last century. No one cares about us. It is ok to blaspheme our God and mock our beliefs. 








  • Stephen
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    The Orthodox Church actually sees itself as a continuation of this.


    What it "sees itself as" is neither here nor there, I'm afraid. It means absolutely nothing. Jesus only cared for saving the Jews, that is to say, "the people of Israel" just as the scripture clearly states.

    So it isn't that the new covenant now includes Christians. Orthodox Christianity is the fulfillment and continuation of ancient Israel.
    Only in your own mind. Your ignoring the facts of the matter. But I expected you to do this. 

    The Christian race is now God's chosen people. 

    (1) "christian" or  christianity is not a "race". (2) what Christians believe themselves to be is one thing, what the scriptures say is another.

    I suppose you will ignore these glaring facts, but they are there for you and all your " christian race", to read them.

    Jesus only came to save the Jews
     
    Matthew 10:5-6
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But gorather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
     
    Jesus rubber stamps his earlier statement: 
    Matthew 15:24
     24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    So the above not only proves you to be totally wrong in what you believe about yourself, but this also contradicts the Acts of the apostles and the letters of Paul.

    Never mind eh.
     

  • Mopac
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    --> @Stephen
    The Orthodox Church is Israel.

    And Christianity was referred to as a race even by ancient Christians.


    And FYI, The Orthodox Church compiled scripture, it is our book. It isn't for you to interpret.

  • PGA2.0
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    --> @Stephen


    “Israel mypeople”.

    Jews As God's Own Chosen People. 

    There are over 20 verses in the Old Testament where god speaks of “his chosen” people.
    Including 
    "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”.Deuteronomy 7:6-8

    And 

    "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples”.Deuteronomy 14:2

    So, there is no getting away from the fact that here god has made it quite clear that the people of Israel – Jews: have been especially chosen and singled out to be his favourites out of “ALL THE PEOPLES” of the known world.

    Christians will no doubt try to argue - ‘but there was a new covenant” when Jesus was born and this now includes Christians: while ignoring the stone cold fact, that (1) Jesus was a Jew. (2) There were no Christians in his lifetime. (3) Jesus the Jew only cared about his own Jew kind. These are facts.Jesus and god were what we call today – racist and christianophobes.
     
    and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

    Israel never lived up to the covenant they made with God on Mount Sinai, despite repeated warnings to repent. Not only this, but the OT also speaks of another covenant God would make with Israel and all peoples that is not like the first or Mosaic Covenant He established with them.

    [ The Broken Covenant ] The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

    “Hear the words of this covenant, and speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;

    and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant

    Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked, each one, in the stubbornness of his evil heart; therefore I brought on them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do, but they did not.’”

    They have turned back to the iniquities of their ancestors who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.”

    [ A New Covenant ] “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast.

    “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

    not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

    “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

    I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

    So, the first covenant was inadequate because of the sin and rebellion of Israel. 

    Jeremiah 22:8-10 (NASB)
    “Many nations will pass by this city; and they will say to one another, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this great city?’ Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the covenant of the Lord their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.’”

    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 

    Viola, AD 70.

    So, in Exodus 24:3, 7 God presents to Israel an if/then covenant that they never live up to. Thus, as promised, He brings judgment/curses on them like He said He would.

    Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!
    Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient! So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    The Orthodox Church is Israel.
    No it isn't. No matter what it chooses to call itself. stop being silly.

    And Christianity was referred to as a race even by ancient Christians.
    So? Christianity is not a race no matter what ancient Christians referred to christianity as. Stop being silly again

    And FYI, The Orthodox Church compiled scripture, it is our book. It isn't for you to interpret.

    So? Are you saying that you have re-written the scriptures to suit your agenda?  Because that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
     It would only mean that you are no closer to "Israel the chosen" than you wre 2,000 years ago but further away. Besides, FYI it means nothing whatsoever.

    I have noticed as have everyone else, that you have ignored the words of those biblical verses confirming what I say. 

    Jesus only came to save the Jews
     
    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But gorather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
     
    Jesus rubber stamps his earlier statement: 
    Matthew 15:24
     24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  • Stephen
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    --> @PGA2.0
    So, in Exodus 24:3, 7 God presents to Israel an if/then covenant that they never live up to. Thus, as promised, He brings judgment/curses on them like He said He would.

    And Jesus came to redeem only them " the chosen". Or have you gone blind too?



    Jesus only came to save the Jews
     
    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
     
    Jesus rubber stamps his earlier statement: 
    Matthew 15:24
     24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



  • rosends
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    --> @Mopac
    The Orthodox Church actually sees itself as a continuation of this. The Christian race is now God's chosen people. 

    It is written in Acts...
    That's nice that you see it that way, but if your support is a text that Jews reject, why should it be at all a valid position to take? If I cite the Koran to prove that Islam sees itself as replacing Christians, would that be useful?


    The Orthodox Church has priests still, contemporary Judaism does not.
    Really? Do you mean that Judaism lacks clergy members who perform many of the same functions as those you call priests in Christianity? Those exist. Or do you mean those of a priestly caste, bound by a separate set of rules and performing separate functions as the priestly caste? Judaism has that, also.

    The temple worship that is practiced by Orthodox today is modeled a great deal after ancient Judaic temple worship. It is different, but similar. It is a continuation.
    The practices of Judaism are modeled directly on temple service. They are the continuation, following the laws which govern temple practice and its continuation. Jewish law which drove Judaic practice 2000 years ago, and does so today.


    So it isn't that the new covenant now includes Christians. Orthodox Christianity is the fulfillment and continuation of ancient Israel.
    Only once you invent some notion of "fulfillment".

    The people that call themselves Jews today are descendant of pharisaical Judaism.
    Yes, the ones whose teaching Jesus said to follow. This is the mode of Judaism that was around then, and is around now. The competing strains of Judaism (be it Essene, Tzeduki, Karaite) really never quite took off.


    People talk about the "6 million Jews" killed in the holocaust(which was horrible, and we Orthodox were helping them escape) but over 20 million Orthodox Christians were martyred in the last century.
    When people talk about the Holocaust, they often talk about the 11 million killed in the camps and the accompanying ethnic cleansing of Europe during the years of 1936 (ish) and 1945. That almost 6 million were Jews, singled out as non-Aryan and named as undesirable by the third Reich is a matter of history. If you want to expand the years then we can talk about the Jews killed over the centuries going back to, say, the crusades, the Inquisitions, the pogroms etc. We can expand the scope to the entire world and discuss violence against Jews in many different places. No one (as far as I have seen) was even discussing the deaths of Jews in the Holocaust, so to bring them up so you can establish yourself as a greater victim seems insensitive at best. But I guess it is acceptable to try and prove that Jews are second best in dying, also.


    The Orthodox Church compiled scripture, it is our book. It isn't for you to interpret.
    That's how Jews feel when Christians try to use the Jewish bible to explain stuff in a Christian way.
  • PGA2.0
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    --> @Stephen

    So, in Exodus 24:3, 7 God presents to Israel an if/then covenant that they never live up to. Thus, as promised, He brings judgment/curses on them like He said He would.

    And Jesus came to redeem only them " the chosen". Or have you gone blind too?

    No, I have not. Who is blind? The mission of His first advent/coming was to the nation of Israel, first to warn them of coming judgment, then to provide those who heed His warnings a way out, a way to be justified before God, a better covenant. God was going to divorce OT Israel due to marital infidelity and then choose a new bride, the new Israel. Jesus' mission was, besides judgment and redemption, also to set up a new covenant in His blood for the redemption of all who will believe the message. Thus, when Old Covenant Israel rejected their Messiah He opened salvation via a new and better covenant to all. 

    The reason God set up a covenant with Israel in the first place was 1) to provide a witness of Himself through His dealings with a particular people, 2) to provide the Messianic line that would save His people, 3) show not only Israel but the world that humans on their own merit fail to live up to the perfect and righteous standard that is God. 




    Jesus only came to save the Jews
     
    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    The purpose of His coming was foretold in the OT. He was coming to save His people (those who would believe the message). He was also coming to bring judgment on a people who had broken His covenant. Until that happened, the New Covenant could not be fully realized because the first had to disappear.  

    Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
    13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

    The first had not disappeared yet, because they were still bringing the atonement for sins to the temple. The temple was destroyed in AD 70. Thus, the New Covenant became the only covenant in which the believer could be right with God after AD 70. 

     
    Jesus rubber stamps his earlier statement: 
    Matthew 15:24
     24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    That was not the primary purpose of His coming. He had to come to His own and His own had to reject Him before God would divorce these people and choose another.


    John 1:11-12 (NASB)
    11 He came to His [a]own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

    First, He had to witness to and judge His own before He opened up His grace to all people.  



  • PGA2.0
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    --> @rosends

    The Orthodox Church actually sees itself as a continuation of this. The Christian race is now God's chosen people. 

    It is written in Acts...
    That's nice that you see it that way, but if your support is a text that Jews reject, why should it be at all a valid position to take? If I cite the Koran to prove that Islam sees itself as replacing Christians, would that be useful?
    The teachings of the NT are based on those of the OT (or your holy writings). Your holy writings are also our holy writings. What was promised in your holy writings Christians claim met their fulfillment in the NT times.

    The OT is a constant revelation of a disobedient people, a people who failed to live according to the teachings of the book or covenant (Exodus 24:3,7). God continually sent prophets and teachers to your people who continually rejected them and pursued foreign gods and things that by nature are not God. God continually warned them that if they continued this way they would receive judgment. Your ancestors did not listen. Thus, in AD 70 God brought the curses of the covenant (Deuteronomy 28:15 onwards) against His chosen people. He brought divorce to Judah as He had previously brought divorce on Israel.

    In AD 70 God selected a new bride with a new covenant, the people Jesus was betrothed to.  

    After AD 70 there is no more Levitical priesthood (that God had sanctioned as the mediator between Israel and Himself). There is no more temple, the place of God presence with His people. There is no more animal sacrifice to bring the offer of atonement on the Day of Atonement. There are no more feast day sacrifices required under the Law of Moses. The genealogical record was destroyed in AD. 70. Thus the priesthood cannot be traced through the written record. It can no longer be established through this record.

    Thus, you cannot worship God as He required you to under the Mosaic Covenant. It no longer exists. If it did you would still be bringing your sacrifices to God via it and through the Levitical priesthood. 

    What is more, your Messiah was prophesied to come to a Mosaic Covenant people. For this to be true He would have to come before the destruction of the temple and city in AD 70. Both the OT writings and the NT writings predict the destruction of Jerusalem again, after the first destruction in Babylonian times. The decree Daniel received from God via the angel gave Daniel's people a specific period of time before Daniel 9:24 met its fulfillment. Daniel 12 pronounced a time of great trouble such as was not from the beginning of the world up to that point when the books would be opened and Daniel's people would be judged. AD 70 is what I claim is that time. Jeremiah told of God establishing a new covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah. That is what the Christian Scriptures claim happened, culminating in AD 70. 

    Daniel 2:44 predicted God setting up His eternal kingdom during the time of the fourth kingdom or empire. Which kingdom do you identify this to be? 




    The Orthodox Church has priests still, contemporary Judaism does not. 
    Really? Do you mean that Judaism lacks clergy members who perform many of the same functions as those you call priests in Christianity? Those exist. Or do you mean those of a priestly caste, bound by a separate set of rules and performing separate functions as the priestly caste? Judaism has that, also.
    I don't know what he means, but I argue that Judaism lacks the prescribed method of worship and sacrifice as STIPULATED in the Mosaic Law. 


    The temple worship that is practiced by Orthodox today is modeled a great deal after ancient Judaic temple worship. It is different, but similar. It is a continuation.
    The practices of Judaism are modeled directly on temple service. They are the continuation, following the laws which govern temple practice and its continuation. Jewish law which drove Judaic practice 2000 years ago, and does so today.
    Show me where the OT explains your described method/model? Show me how you follow the Torah. 



    So it isn't that the new covenant now includes Christians. Orthodox Christianity is the fulfillment and continuation of ancient Israel.
    Only once you invent some notion of "fulfillment".
    Your scripture speaks of a time of fulfillment. 


    The people that call themselves Jews today are descendant of pharisaical Judaism.
    Yes, the ones whose teaching Jesus said to follow. This is the mode of Judaism that was around then, and is around now. The competing strains of Judaism (be it Essene, Tzeduki, Karaite) really never quite took off.

    It is not the same mode. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @rosends
    I think a fruitful discussion of this subject would require a real sit down. But we Orthodox certainly do see ourselves as the new Israel. 
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    How handy is it having the same holy book same god. 
    It's alllllll exactly the same but only different. 

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    The ancient aliens must have been Jews.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    The ancient aliens must have been Jews.

    No. The "gods" of the Jews may have been, Witch,  Their abode is  said to be  up in the "heavens" and one is said to be " coming on or through the clouds"  so you may be onto something there.  but this is a thread about " Israel, god's chosen people". 
    You still haven't told me where you believe your gods exist, Witch, why are you avoiding that question?
  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    But we Orthodox certainly do see ourselves as the new Israel. 

    What you see yourself as is irrelevant? you are not "Israels, chosen people" and jesu makes it very clear that he had only come to save the "children of Israel".

    Jesus only came to save the Jews
     
    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
     
    Jesus rubber stamps his earlier statement: 
    Matthew 15:24
     24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    ONLY
    /ˈəʊnli/
    adverb

    1. 1.
      and no one or nothing more besides; solely.


    Tell me, how many times do you need to read the word ONLY before it all sinks through to you?

    He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    New Living Translation
    Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."

    English Standard Version
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Berean Study Bible
    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    Berean Literal Bible
    And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    New American Standard Bible 
    But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

  • Stephen
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    Your scripture speaks of a time of fulfillment. 
    And your scripture clearly states that Jesus only came to save Jews ONLY. 

    ONLY
    /ˈəʊnli/
    adverb

    1. 1.
      and no one or nothing more besides; solely.


    Tell me, how many times do you need to read the word ONLY before it all sinks through to you?

    Matthew 15:24

    He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."

    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

  • keithprosser
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    What I think happened is that the OT was compiled to preserve Hebrew/Jewish culture and identity by fixing it in written form.   That project ended around the 5th century BC.   In the very different social conditions of the 1st century AD proto-Christianity arose as a heretical sect.  The proto-Christians tried to make the new cult acceptable to Jews by emphasising continuity with Hebrew tradition as embodied in the OT.

    By a quirk of history, Christianity proved more successful outside Israel then inside Israel resulting in Christianity diverging ever more from Judaism, but the linkage to the OT scriptures was too ingrained to be abandoned.  The result is a bizarre yoking of two very different theological outlooks that Christian theologians have struggled to reconcile for 2000 years.

    my favourite theologian is marcion of sinope who gave up trying to reconcile the OT and NT and wrote that there are or were two gods,(ie not one)and threw out the OT entirely.  Perhaps the most surprising thing is that he wasn't burned at the stake for it!
  • Stephen
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    my favourite theologian is marcion of sinope who gave up trying to reconcile the OT and NT and wrote that there are or were two gods,(ie not one)and threw out the OT entirely.  Perhaps the most surprising thing is that he wasn't burned at the stake for it!

    I agree, and even now, in this new age, christians, I believe are worshiping the wrong god.
    It is all to do with "houses" and which "god" is the ruler of any given age. i.e Abraham,Moses = Ram = Aries who supported the god of that house and this is why that there are many references to the "ram", "rams horns" ect  is mentioned many times during this period in the OT.. Before this period it was the age of Taurus, the Bull and the gods supported by the Pharaohs. You may recall, when the Hebrews were starving and wondering through the parched desert and fed up of Moses barking orders and going awol every other day, they decided it was time they went back to supporting the "old god" and made a calf/bull of gold.
     
     There is also this verse that gives a clue to what was actually going on when Joseph -  he of many colours - Genesis 46:33-34 tells is shepherd family to lie to Pharaoh, saying:


     "And it shall come to pass, when Pharaoh shall call you, and shall say, What is your occupation?"

    "That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians".

    There of course is only one explanation for Pharaoh believing every shepherd to be an "abomination". It is because the shepherds supported the Ram god of the house of Aries. 

    When Jesus entered the picture that age was coming to an end and the house of the Fish,Pisces was on the horizon. this is why we have many references to fish and fishermen and people being made fishers of men etc. 

    Now by all accounts, the age of the fish has also passed. And an interesting clue to that maybe that when a pope dies normally his ring is destroyed and a new "fisherman's ring" is issued to the newly elected Pope. But not in the last case. The fisherman's ring of  Pope Benedict XVI was kept and put into the vatican museum where it is on public view. Interesting also is that Benedict retired, when these posts are supposed to be until death. He was the first pope to retire in over 600 years. Those that "retired" before are suspicious as to whether they were pushed or they jumped.

    AND

    I don't believe that is was any coincidence that in the same timeframe that the Pope stood down that Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams decided to retire too.

    AND

    who can forget this little telling gem from jesus?

    Luke 12:56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?

    What a giveaway!
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    --> @keithprosser


    What I think happened is that the OT was compiled to preserve Hebrew/Jewish culture and identity by fixing it in written form.   That project ended around the 5th century BC.   In the very different social conditions of the 1st century AD proto-Christianity arose as a heretical sect.  The proto-Christians tried to make the new cult acceptable to Jews by emphasising continuity with Hebrew tradition as embodied in the OT.
    What evidence do you have for such a bazaar theory? 


    By a quirk of history, Christianity proved more successful outside Israel then inside Israel resulting in Christianity diverging ever more from Judaism, but the linkage to the OT scriptures was too ingrained to be abandoned.  The result is a bizarre yoking of two very different theological outlooks that Christian theologians have struggled to reconcile for 2000 years.

    my favourite theologian is marcion of sinope who gave up trying to reconcile the OT and NT and wrote that there are or were two gods,(ie not one)and threw out the OT entirely.  Perhaps the most surprising thing is that he wasn't burned at the stake for it!


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    --> @Stephen

    Your scripture speaks of a time of fulfillment. 
    And your scripture clearly states that Jesus only came to save Jews ONLY. 

    ONLY
    /ˈəʊnli/
    adverb

    1. 1.
      and no one or nothing more besides; solely.


    Tell me, how many times do you need to read the word ONLY before it all sinks through to you?

    Matthew 15:24

    He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."

    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    And answering He said, "I was sent only to those being lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    The purpose of His coming was to judge Israel and bring salvation for those waiting for Him. 

    Matthew 3:7-13
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 
    10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 
    12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor ; and
    He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” 
    13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.

    John 1:11-13
    11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

    His mission after coming to and for the lost sheep of Israel was to offer an eternal covenant for all who would believe.

    [ A New Covenant ] “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast.

    “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

    not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.


  • keithprosser
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    What evidence do you have for such a bazaar theory? 
    Bizarre, I assume!

    The scriptures must have been written for some pupose.  The OT is a repository of the Hebrews' culture, laws,  traditions and legends so I presume that is what was it was intended to be.   Recall the 10 tribes lost as a result of the Assyrian Exile - the remaining tribe of Judah wanted to avoid a similar fate due to the Babylonian exile.

    The NT has to be considered in its historical context.   Traditional YHWHism suited a nomadic, warlike tribe but not an urbanised proletariat under seemingly permanent foreign domination.   YHWHism was a this-world based religion - with little hope for respite here Chrstianity promisde it posthumously.  But the new religion could not succeed unless it could be packaged compatible with the old.

    The theory attempts to explain the existence of the texts in terms of history, politics and psychology - all of which exist,not in terms of divinities that don't.   You could say the evidence is that the existence of the texts and their contents.





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    The purpose of His coming was to judge Israel and bring salvation for those waiting for Him. 

    I don't agree and you cannot back that up with anything tangible.   BUT, "those waiting for Him" could have only meant Jews and not gentiles.  The scripture is clear. Jesu came to appeal to Jews gods "chosen people" and not gentiles. 

    Learn to read. How many times  can you see the words -  do notgo not, gentiles and  Israel?

    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles,[anyone not a Jew] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

    New Living Translation
    Jesus sent out the twelve apostles with these instructions: "Don't go to the Gentiles or the Samaritans,but only to the people of Israel--God's lost sheep.

    English Standard Version
    These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,but only to the people of Israel--God's lost sheep.

    Berean Study Bible
    These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

    Berean Literal Bible
    These twelve, Jesus sent forth, having instructed them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans.but only to the people of Israel--God's lost sheep.

    New American Standard Bible 
    These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    King James Bible
    These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

     

  • keithprosser
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    --> @Stephen
    How do you reconcile Matthew 28?

    18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
  • Stephen
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    How do you reconcile Matthew 28?

    Not for me to "reconcile", is it. But of course, as per usual, nations meant something slightly different AD early AD than it does today. Over half the references to "nations" in the OT are negative, ex,  Leviticus 18:28 it meant vomit. A "drop in a bucket" and "dust on the scales"Isaiah 40:15. "Slaves" in Leviticus 25:44.


    But I think it can be safely said that in this instance it means tribes. It was a uniting mission,exactly as King David had done that Jesus was trying to achieve. He knew he couldn't take on the Romans with the nations/tribes divided. So " Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,"  could easily be interpreted as -  'go out to all the tribes and bring back the lost sheep into the sheepfold' - as it clearly states "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel."

    It is for the theist to reconcile this:
     
    19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    with this>>

    Matthew 10:5-6 
     
    These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, [anyone NOT of  Jacob /Israel from whom the 12 tribes came] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

    6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


      And we have a clue here when god is said to have told Abram renamed Abraham;> 

    Genesis 12:2 "I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.

    Well when we read that, we see the 12 tribes that sprang from him eventually created one great tribe/nation : ISRAEL.
  • Stephen
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    EDIT:  Not for me to "reconcile", is it. But of course, as per usual, nations meant something slightly different >>> BC <<<< and early AD than it does today.