Reality a just a mental construct

Author: Fallaneze ,

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  • Fallaneze
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    Fallaneze
    Everything you see has no independent existence. We're living in a virtual world. 
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Fallaneze
    How have you determined that this is the case?
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Fallaneze
    It's a simulation but not a mental construct. You are implying something like the Matrix where you're one of the 'real characters' but this type of solipsism isn't just insane it missed an extremely vital clue throughout the whole Matrix trilogy; they're still in the simulation even in their 'real world'.

    You need to learn to appreciate everyone and everything as 'real' but accept that evil can happen anyway, even at your hand directly or indirectly be it by you buying meat, by you doing this or that whatever. Shit happens to real beings that suffer real agony at the hands of others in reality. The hardest part isn't learning to forgive yourself, the hard part is learning to want to be the good guy/girl in spite of the ill things you've done.
  • Fallaneze
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    --> @RationalMadman
    I believe other people are real too, in terms of their inner person or soul or whatever, but I just don't believe that anything perceived has independent existence. The world is a construct of information-processing. It's an assimilation of mental properties that have no independent existence.
  • Fallaneze
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Everything we perceive is comprised of mental properties that have no independent existence. Shapes, colors, textures, sounds, etc. 

  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Fallaneze
    Alright, I agree then, like fully agree.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Fallaneze
    Ah so in the sense that we never experience reality directly even if our experience does accurately reflect reality? I agree ypur brain is not an eye ball nor an ear drum and neither eyeballs nor eardrums seem to have experiences on their own.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I get the impression Fallaneze is edging towards full-on idealism.

    I'd say idealism is irrefutable but has no interesting consequences.  it doesn't seem to matter if it is true or not, unless you're smoking pot around a campfire!
  • TwoMan
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    --> @keithprosser
    I'd say idealism is irrefutable but has no interesting consequences.
    That depends on which part of idealism you are talking about. That everything is mental and immaterial, not very interesting. That consciousness is the pre-condition of the material universe, that sounds interesting to me. It's an idea that could be refined to make a little more sense.

  • keithprosser
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    --> @TwoMan
    I principally meant the former.   I always refuse to engage with guys who have just discovered idealism and are over-excited by it - idealism is a phase we all go through, mostly in our teens.   Godel's theorem and memes are other fads...

    Do you refer to the role of consciousness in some interpretations of QM?  


  • TwoMan
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    --> @keithprosser
    Do you refer to the role of consciousness in some interpretations of QM?  
    No, I was referring to existence itself. That consciousness is a fundamental aspect of existence rather than an emergent property is an interesting idea to me (not in a deistic way).

  • keithprosser
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    --> @TwoMan
    Consciousness is the itch I can't scratch.  

    My intition is that consciousness somehow emerges from matter, so matter is 'more fundamental' than mind.   I don't know that is true and quite often when i think about 'the hard problem' I begin to doubt it!  

    Sad thing is I read a lot about consciusness a few decades ago and there hasn't been any progress since to keep abreast of since.  Artiicial intelligene has made a bit of progress, but artificial consciousness is nowhere on the horizon.
        

  • TwoMan
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    --> @keithprosser
    Yes it makes me wonder whether it is even worth contemplating something which can not be know. In other words, if I can't know the answer then is the question worth asking?
  • keithprosser
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    --> @TwoMan
    I think I've learned a lot by thinking about ways that consciousness can't work!

    The way I look at it is that now I know I don't know about things that I used to not know I didn't know about not knowing.  That's progress!
  • TwoMan
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    --> @keithprosser
    The way I look at it is that now I know I don't know about things that I used to not know I didn't know about not knowing.  That's progress!
    Well said.

  • mustardness
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    --> @keithprosser
    Consciousness is the itch I can't scratch. 
    No, consciousness is the act experience of scratching, ---see all nervous system animals---, and sometimes there is more access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts. 

    My intition is that consciousness somehow emerges from matter, so matter is 'more fundamental' than mind.   I don't know that is true and quite often when i think about 'the hard problem' I begin to doubt it!  
    Matter experience ergo consciousness{ nerovus system } precedes access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.  No nervous system = no access. Simple minimal brainer when  refine our definitions of what exists.

    Sad thing is I read a lot about consciusness a few decades ago and there hasn't been any progress since to keep abreast of since.  Artiicial intelligene has made a bit of progress, but artificial consciousness is nowhere on the horizon.
    Lee Smolin---"we will know more in the future".. from his 2nd book, 3 Roads to Quantum Gravity or his or his first book


  • Analgesic.Spectre
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    --> @Fallaneze
    Everything you see has no independent existence. We're living in a virtual world. 
    Yep, because nothing existed before humans.

    *facepalm*

  • Fallaneze
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    --> @Analgesic.Spectre
    The designer(s) of the program 
  • Analgesic.Spectre
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    --> @Fallaneze
    The designer(s) of the program 
    Please prove that they existed before humans.

  • Fallaneze
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    --> @Analgesic.Spectre
    I have a "first cause" topic on this issue.  
  • Analgesic.Spectre
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    --> @Fallaneze
    I have a "first cause" topic on this issue. 


  • Fallaneze
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    --> @Analgesic.Spectre
    I had Quantum fluctuations in mind when I wrote my argument.
  • Analgesic.Spectre
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    --> @Fallaneze
    If only you understood them...
  • Fallaneze
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    --> @Analgesic.Spectre
    Do quantum fluctuations have free will?