Atheist to atheist

Author: keithprosser ,

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  • keithprosser
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    In 100 years we'll be dead.  In what way does it matter what is going on then?

    We will have descendants alive then, but we won't know or care about it.   it won't affect us in our graves if there is no oil or tigers for our children to enjoy.   Why should we stint for people of the future who don't even exist yet?  They might thank us for leaving them a nice planet (if we do!), but what can a insentiate corpse do with a thank you?

    We atheists are often charged by theists of being amoral monsters.   We aren't - but why not?

    So why aren't you and I amoral's elfish hedonists?  
  • Mopac
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    Yeah, the thing that freaks me out the most about atheists in the west is that they sound exactly like the Soviets who killed millions of my brothers and did everything they could get away with doing to destroy the church.


    The Soviet Union may be gone, but the effects of KGB meddling in the education system, media, and culture of the people here didn't stop its momentum with the dissolution of The Soviet Union. 

    And I am seriously concerned for the well being of my people in the future of America because this place is filled with useful idiots hell bent on bringing about a socialist revolution right here in the states. 

    The nihilism that naturally accompanies the atheist mindset is fundamentally anti-human, and I don't think many God deniers are aware of the implications of their worldview.

    If an atheist government is put into place, they will persecute the church, I have little doubt. It is not really uncommon to hear the atheist refer to religion as a mind virus. This is the same outlook that atheistic and communist countries tend to have. 


  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    The point of making this thread is that actual atheists do not conform to your stereotype.    If atheists are - by some logic - either rapacious monsters or nice but inconsistent then it turns out we overwhemingly choose to be nice and inconsistent.   There are worse things to be!


  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    I am not really trying to formulate a stereotype of atheists. Obviously, there are many types of atheists.

    I am of the opinion that atheism tends to be a position of ignorance rather than a knowing denial of God. What atheist denies my God? There are atheists that claim to, but they nearly always deny a god I myself don't believe in.

    But truthfully, atheists are consistently arbitrary. They lack the discernment to make moral judgement calls. Morality for the atheist is what conforms to a personal sense of aesthetics. 

    There is nothing unusual about people being nice to others, especially those who are nice to them. What is unusual is blessing your persecutors. 
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    I am not formulating a stereotype of atheists....

    But truthfully, atheists are consistently arbitrary.

    Look up 'stereotype'.

    I was rather hoping theists would want to listen to atheists tell their side of the story.  Hearing what preconcptions theists have is an unwelcome bonus.

  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    My God is The Ultimate Reality.


    Understanding that, what is an atheist?

    Someone who doesn't believe there is truth.


    What am I supposed to believe? It's an invalid and abominable superstition. 


    There is no shortage of wickedness to gaze on in this world. 




  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    .. what is an atheist?
    Someone who doesn't believe there is truth.
    What am I supposed to believe? It's an invalid and abominable superstition. 


    Shut and listen and you might find out what atheists really think.  We all know what you think - it's all you ever post.
  • Castin
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    You have to believe that something beyond your own life, your own experiences, and your own cognition matters.

  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    But truthfully, atheists are consistently arbitrary. They lack the discernment to make moral judgement calls. Morality for the atheist is what conforms to a personal sense of aesthetics. 

    JESUS!!!!  Can you hear yourself, man?!
  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    My God is The Ultimate Reality.
    FFS!!!!! Change the FKN record!!!

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Mopac
    When the time comes that atheist outnumber theists in the West religion will be banned an all theists killed. I have not doubt about that. 
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @keithprosser
    Pagans are kind of with atheists on this. To us there's no real morality at all other than that stupidity and timidity if both high in a person are inevitably going to end up in the worst life experience possible and that if both intellect and courage are high it then can lead to you either being a great hero, a great villain or a rogue type neutral whatever who does a lot in his/her life at least for yourself that is.

    To the Pagan, Hedonism is natural but Hedonism is actually a lie. If you seek pleasure constantly, you are going to suffer constantly from the long-term consequences and medium-term drawbacks of the immediate pleasures again and again (they get worse the more you pile up until you owe so much debt you end up in prison due to bankruptcy and inability to pay a fine or you end up dead due to a  loan shark's enforcer killin you off etc). Pagans are Hedonist only in theory, in practise we are probably the most disciplined people there are. Unlike Mafias and any general sociopathic organisation which you think would be Pagan, Pagans formations are much more like 'everyone wins' scenarios. The Pagan philosophy, whether you're a Hippy who thinks everyone's equal or a Satanist who loves your kinky master-slave scenario where both give the other the meaning to live and enjoy life in their dom vs sub way, both versions of Pagans explore something that society loathes; disciplined pleasure. It's a concept not understood by any in philosophy.

    Disciplined pleasure is Hedonism without Nihilism. The long-term strategy to the pleasure for all and definitely for you is undeniably the best way to go about life that there is. If you need me to explain why long-term pleasure is the best thing to aim for, you are probably too dumb to deserve it (that's not ad hominem fallacy, it's literally a concept that requires intellect to even process in the brain). If your brain literally asks' but why not just keep seeking immediate pleasure, I'm gonna die anyway why care about my clan or what happens after I die or my homies or my lovers and/or children?' then you are stupid. Stupidity is worse than timidity but timidity is a choice meaning stupidity is something you can't blame yourself for having while timidity is. Both are against the Pagan code.

    Fight for the pleasure of all in a long-term sense and you're a legit Pagan. The reason for doing so is self-evident. All morality systems are based on self-evident truths. That's not cheating.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Castin
    You have to believe that something beyond your own life, your own experiences, and your own cognition matters.

    What do you believe in, Cas?

  • Castin
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    --> @keithprosser
    A complete answer to that would probably require a four dimensional map of spacetime.

    I think you need to feel like you're a part of something bigger than yourself, whether it be God, humanity, science, or the grandeur of the cosmos itself. Otherwise things start looking pretty grim.

  • FaustianJustice
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    --> @Mopac
    In what ways do your God's morals and your morals differ such that it requires Him/It to check your behavior?
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Castin
    Otherwise things start looking pretty grim.
    GrimMER, you mean.

  • Castin
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    --> @keithprosser
    Quite right, sadly.
  • Stephen
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    Stephen

    When the time comes that atheist outnumber theists in the West religion will be banned an all theists killed.

    It is extremely difficult to "ban" or even "kill" and idea ,Witch. I would have thought you would have understood that.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Which is why all theists will be killed moron. 
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Castin
    Quite right, sadly.
    Never mind.  Cheer your self up - get someone banned.

  • Mopac
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    --> @FaustianJustice
    God is The Truth.

    If sin means to fall short...

    Well, quite naturally I fall short of The Truth. I am wrong. I guess incorrectly. I am surprised. I learn. I am surprised.

    Reality is the check.


    The atheist denies my God, knowingly or not, and in doing so, they are denying reality and truth itself.

    My position has and always has been that most people are atheists because they don't know any better.


  • Polytheist-Witch
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    I love when people let slip about Castin's back stabbing out in the open like that. 
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Mopac
    Your an atheist about my gods. Guess I can say the same about you. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @Castin
    The Soviets in Russia saw themselves as being part of something bigger than themselves, and they murdered more people even than the Nazis, who also saw themselves as being a part of something bigger than themselves.


    Belief that something beyond your own life matters is really not that hard for anyone to do. Even the pagans will sacrifice their lives for their loved ones. Their family. Their country. Some ideal.

    At some point or another, every atheist must grapple with the absurd. How do many deal with it? Not much has changed in the last couple centuries. They decide that they can arbitrarily decide and make life's meaning.


    And that is what atheism is to the core. An embrace of arbitrariness. If there is no truth, truth is whatever I make it out to be. Whatever is convenient. Whatever works for me.

    But the thing is, in the end, none of this will be fulfilling. The Truth is what liberates oneself from vanity. The Truth is the only salvation from this world of suffering. 

    Without it, people can go on living their lives constantly entertained and amused by media, eating more in a day than some in the world eat in a week, and living their lives satisfying every impulse and pleasure while saying to themselves, "I'm a good person, and I don't live a hedonistic life. Look, at how they are living, they are the amoral and selfish, not I".

    Meanwhile the world outside is falling apart, the love of self is magnified, the love of many is waxing cold, and people through covetousness masquerading as compassion call for the looting and robbing of others to solve all these problems piling up.. problems that are primarily the result of a real spiritual sickness.

    And if a real awakening doesn't happen soon, and I mean a mass awakening, people might wake up to find themselves in a land where they are no longer free to abuse the liberty they once geld dear. They may find that what they thought was liberty was in fact slavery to vice, and it was this vice that fooled them into denying the truth. These idols chosen in preference to The Truth will not save, and will lead those seduced by them into perdition.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    And that is what atheism is to the core. An embrace of arbitrariness. If there is no truth, truth is whatever I make it out to be. Whatever is convenient. Whatever works for me.
    Your not even close.