Instigator / Pro

life is created by god


The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
Better sources
Better legibility
Better conduct

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

Publication date
Last updated date
Number of rounds
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Contender / Con

No information

Round 1
God put medical properties in plants
Point 1

The turmeric roots heal a damaged brain via 270 known pathways.

This was written by the founder of green med info

Turmeric shows the creator intelligence knowledge and thinking

. Turmeric roots heal a damaged brain via 270 individual pathways in the brain. to create such plant would require
intelligence knowledge and thinking. The creator of the turmeric roots would need to have intelligence of at least 1000 neurosurgeons to create the medical properties inside the roots that heal the brain like that.
The creator of turmeric roots would also need great knowledge of the inner workings of the  brain in order to heal it. He would also have to have knowledge on how to travel 270 pathways through the brain in order to heal a damaged brain. He would have knowledge on how to heal a brain.
The creator would have to be  thinking about people with broken brains when creating tumeric. we know this because he put medical properties in a plant that heal  broken brains via 270 known pathways.

sweet flag roots helps with stuttering

Perfectly synced space
Point 2

A book i was reading at 11  last night." The book of nature" said something that reminded me on how perfectly aligned are solar system is . The book of nature is a book that was written in the 18 century by a  fellow named John Mason.
the book is in the public domain because it is so old. but it says this on page 50. I have not read far so i do not know were he was going with this.

part of page 50

the philosopher beholding now,as the prophet beheld formerly,that the almighty architect has literally
adjusted everything by weight and measured the waters meted out the heavens accurately comprehended the dust of the earth, "weighed he mountains in scales and the hills in a balance

It is basically saying that god took into account stuff like the weight on the leaf and he weight it just enough so it can float around.

It seems he does not claim this anymore because he says "beheld formerly". but this is exactly what god did with the solar system. he literally adjusted it and measured it till everything was in the perfect spot with no flaws. the sun is in the perfect spot if it was  closer or farther  away we would either freeze to death or burn to death. god measured it out. Plus you need to bring into account that the sun is coordinated with the moon. It being this perfect and being created by nothing. Is like if i won the lottery ten billion times. so it is impossible
for nothing to created life.

in the article called

The perfect balance of the solar system

It talks about how perfectly aligned the solar system is.

The sun and moon are perfectly synced. The sun is not to hot or to cold. god measured it till the sun and moon were in the perfect spots. everything is perfectly synced. the article talks about how even the planets could not have formed over a long time but had to be created rapidly

in the article
It so happens our sun provides the perfect conditions. It’s not too small (i.e., too dim or too cool) or too big (producing unfortunate charbroiled results from simply being too hot). Compared to the intense and violent activity seen on other stars, our sun is remarkably even-tempered and well-mannered—it doesn’t flare or pulse like other stars. When solar flares do occur, they are not so violent as to vaporize our oceans…or worse

On the local level, our moon is equally amazing, leading two secular authors to ask, “Who built the Moon?” Knight and Butler state, “The Moon is 400 times smaller than the star at the center of our solar system, yet it is also just 1/400th of the distance between the Earth and the Sun.” Consequently, the moon and sun appear exactly the same size in Earth’s sky—making precise solar eclipses possible. The authors also say, “By some absolutely incomprehensible quirk of nature, the Moon also manages to precisely imitate the perceived annual movements of the Sun each month.
Wow so the sun is something billion miles away and the moon is something million miles away. But if we look at it from earth they come out to be  the same size. the sun is bigger then the moon but because god measured both so when your gazing into the sky from earth . it seems to be the same size.
Consequently, the moon and sun appear exactly the same size in Earth’s sky—making precise solar eclipses possible

Planets Created Rapidly

But even if our neighboring planets somehow formed quickly from accumulating space dust, recently discovered exoplanets (extrasolar planets) have changed secular solar system formation theory.
there scratching there heads at what could have done this.

I will let you in on a secret it was god. They try to claim a super star did it.

There are many factors that would make a star system too hostile for life to even get started, let alone survive for any period long enough to evolve. So what sort of star provides the perfect conditions for a habitable planet elsewhere in the universe?

They are talking about that space should be hostile if nothing created life. So they ask themselves why is it perfectly balanced this should not be the case if nothing created life and they are correct. Nothing did not create life but God did. that's is why it is perfectly balanced not a super star

It talks about how perfectly synced the sun and moon are along with the stars. The chances of the solar system coming from nothing is if i won the lottery one trillion zillion times.  Those odds are impossible thus it must be god who created life. God would have fined tuned everything . a bunch of nothing would not have.

this is the link to the book of nature

synced life

point 3

the philosopher beholding now,as the prophet beheld formerly,that the almighty architect has literally
adjusted everything by weight and measured the waters meted out the heavens accurately comprehended the dust of the earth, "weighed he mountains in scales and the hills in a balance
though i can not prove some of the example listed in here.

life is perfectly balanced.

If there is to much deer the wolf population grows. if there to many wolfs less deer and they starve and it balances itself out.

trees breath in co2 and put out air. we breath air and put out co2

is it not a coincidence that the trees eat are waste and put out what we need to survive. and the trees eat our waste and put out what they need to survive.


point 4

coloring weasels

Weasels are grey and or brown during the summer time but are white during the winter time

what this is like

God created the weasel to turn white so that it can go with the white winter.

a race car driver drives a green car so he decides to were green cloths  so it goes with the green car.

I paint my house blue but i decide to also paint my mailbox blue to go with the blue house

God created the rabbits white during the winter so that it can go with the white snow

Or i have a white house so i color the fence around it white to go with the white fence

or me wearing a red shirt so i decide to wear red pants to go with it.

coloring trees

god colored trees green to go with the green grass

this is like how god created the seasonal rabbit to turn brown to white so that the rabbit would go with the white snow

or if Santa clause wears red. so he paints his sleigh red to go with it

or if i have a brick house so i build a brick mailbox to go with the brick mailbox

Thank you for your opening argument. Because the burden of proof rests on you, this round will largely be a rebuttal.

Your mostly gave a series of unrelated points, but it seems like your overarching main argument through them was “Anytime something weird or interesting happens, it’s because of God”. This round, I will try to show you the flaws in your logic, and explain most of the examples you brought up are perfectly natural, and don’t require God’s interference in order to exist.

I say “most of” your examples because your first one is completely inaccurate. You’ve chosen as your source a website called “Green Med Info”, and upon research, I have found that the website opposes vaccination, GMOs, and modern medicine in general. I find that “alternative medicine”-type websites in general are unreliable and manipulative with their so-called “evidence”, but that’s another debate altogether. So knowing this, I’ve checked more reliable and less biased sources to see whether or not turmeric root has miraculous brain-healing properties as you claim.

The consensus from medical professionals, people who dedicate their lives to studying the inner workings of the human body, generally came to the consensus that turmeric root is questionable as medicine. [1] At best, it has been found to remedy minor inflammations. Certainly not fixing up brains. And if you read the article which you linked, you will find that their claim that turmeric patches up brain pathways is based on speculation from a database of their own creation, not from any sort of experimentation or actual instances of this happening. Before I move on, I would just like to point out the disclaimer at the bottom of the article you linked: “This article is not intended to provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.” Possibly the truest statement on that website.

Before I move on, I would like to address directly the argument you seem to be making. So, in spite of the lack of any evidence, let’s say that turmeric really did have the power of 1000 neurosurgeons. How does that in any way lend itself to proving God exists? Because it’d mean God provided an easy natural remedy to illnesses? Turmeric is only found in India, so only Indians would have had access to this supposed panacea until our age of globalization. Doesn’t God like to punish people who believe in different gods, as the Bible would have us believe? Then why give the cure to the followers of Ganesha and Vishnu instead of himself? And why did God create these illnesses in the first place? If he’s truly omnipotent, he could have easily prevented all this brain damage from happening. Let’s say that I shoot someone in the leg, and then quickly remove the bullet, disinfect the wound, and wrap it up nicely. Am I worthy of praise for fixing an injury that I myself created? If not, then neither is God. If anything, the existence of illness is used as a powerful argument against the existence of God. Look up the “problem of evil” if you haven’t heard of it.

You also offer me a quote from a book called “The Book of Nature”. Which you say was written in the 18th century, which is before the modern forms of biology, geology, and astronomy emerged. But does the philosophical argument hold up?

Reading the quote, it certainly doesn’t. What do you mean by our solar system being “perfectly aligned”? Our solar system consists of planets of different sizes, which spin and move at different rates. The book’s author seems to think that the way the world is organized now is somehow the perfect and only way it could have been. But what if there were a few more dust particles here, or some mountains moved around there, or if the continents were completely rearranged? Then I assure you Mr. John Mason, and those like him, would have made the same argument. Arguments like that are using backwards logic. With a few changes in variables,  the world could have turned out in any number of different ways. But he assumes that our current world, rather than being one of infinite possible results of natural processes, needed a divine hand to guide it to its current state.

Your argument about the Earth being the perfect distance from the sun is called the “argument from fine tuning”. Modern creationism relies on it. This is yet another argument of yours that can be summarized as “Anytime something weird or interesting happens, it’s because of God”. Do you not think improbable things can happen in a universe without God? Even if the chance is one in a trillion, it could certainly happen in a universe with trillions and trillions of planets. And what difference would it make whether it was Earth or a different planet countless light years away? If humanity evolved on a different star system, and we invented theology, theologians would argue the same things they are right now.

You link an article from the Institute of Creation Research, which is even less reliable than Green Med Info. Which is making the same argument of fine tuning. What if the sun was hotter or colder? Then the so-called “Goldilocks zone” of “not too hot or too cold, but just right” in which we find Earth would be in a different place. The sun and the moon appear to be roughly the same size because the sun is about 400 times larger than the moon, and also about 400 times farther away from us. But what does this matter? Even if this was because of God, what would be the practical purpose of making them appear to be the same size? Wouldn’t it be a better use of God’s time to, say, eliminate all the diseases and natural disasters he’s unleashed upon humanity? Or correct the numerous errors and contradictions in the Bible? I genuinely don’t know how to respond to your arguments when none of them seem to even relate to the premise of the debate.

Your entire round engages in a logical fallacy called the “God of the gaps” fallacy. [2] Science doesn’t claim to be all-knowing or omniscient. So obviously, there are things science doesn’t know and can’t understand right now. But whenever there’s the slightest gap in scientific knowledge, creationists and other fundamentalists leap onto this gap and say “God did it”. Or even claim the existence of these gaps is because science is unreliable. Anytime something strange and unexplained happens, like these rapidly-forming planets you didn’t leave a source for, a scientist’s first instinct is to say “Let’s investigate this and see what’s happening.” Your first instinct is to point to it and say “It was god”. And when we find the evidence that these rapid planets were the result of completely natural processes, groups like the ICR and Answers in Genesis will say “Oh well, that doesn’t matter anyway” and find some other gap to pounce on.

Following your argument, I could ask why God doesn’t turn all animals white during winter, instead of just weasels and rabbits. Or why God didn’t create enough trees to combat climate change. Or how your cherry-picked example of deer and wolves makes sense when there are plenty of examples of the predators eating all the prey, or the prey outnumbering the predator. I hope that next round, you attempt to clarify your statements more. How can you argue that the state of our current world proves the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God when it could so clearly be improved in so many ways, and turned into something that actually suits his personality? If God so desperately wanted to prove his existence through his own creation, he could just come down from the sky right now and tell us. But of course, that has never happened.

Round 2
there is this misconception that many people believe. They believe  scientist spend years making revolutionary life saving prescription drugs that treat all kinds of diseases.
It is believe that scientist created these drugs and they used a lot of thinking knowledge and intelligence to do so.

This is true  sometimes  but most of the time this is not what they do.Most of the time they just find a plant with amazing health properties and make a synthetic version of it. There synthetic drug has a lot of side effects like changes in behavior and thinking' thoughts off suicide' and yellow eyes and skin etc and is not revolutionary and or life saving. That is 100 percent false.

To date, 35,000-70,000 plant species have been screened for their medicinal use. Plants especially those with ethnopharmacological uses have been the primary sources of medicine for early drug discovery. Fabricant and Farnsworth, (2001) reported that, 80% of 122 plant derived drugs were related to their original ethnopharmacological purposes.

this is from a .gov site so no arguing with this this.

but the question still stand if scientist are not using thinking intelligence and or knowledge to create this medicine then who is.
it would have to be the one who is creating the plants. god created plants he must have been the one who used thinking intelligence and knowledge to create these medicine. not the scientist.

evolution can not use thinking intelligence and or thinking to create life saving medicine. so evolution could not have done it. creating some of the plants would take great intelligence

sweet flag herbs go up into the brain and fixes the parts that help with stuttering. god had to figure out how to get the roots up to the brain. he would also need the intelligence of 1000 brain surgeons in order to heal it.

I  would even say that it is a fact that god put medicine in plants. There has been thousands of study's on the medical properties in plants i mean almost every day you her about a plant with medicine in it. every culture used the medicine in plants the Indian used medicine in plants
the Chinese use to use medicine in plants etc almost every culture use the medicine god put in plants. we did this up until the 1900s throughout all of human history.

people are always talking about how great modern medicine is and that we are living longer because of drugs. and these scientist are so smart they  use there great knowledge to make these drugs that traverse  the body and fixes kidneys and hearts etc. When it is god who used his his great knowledge to create medicine that traverses the body and fixes kidneys and hearts. All man did was add absurd side effects like thoughts of suicide yellow skin and eyes etc. primitive man had access to the same medicine  we got except are is synthetic and less effective and a billion times more dangerous.the stuff god created did not cause thoughts of suicide. he created plants with insane medical properties in which we derive are synthetic garbage from. and then claim we created it and claim people will live till there 100 with this crud.

there is a hug problem . but nowadays you can not buy herbs from other country's without a ton of lead and mercury and other heavy metals in the plant. these heavy metals cause an assortment of problems. one of which causes inflammation
now turmeric is infamous to have a lead and mercury problem the problem is so bad that i have not been able to buy any turmeric online without lead and or mercury in fact most people do not even tell you. it is a huge problem. there is a grading standard for plants to see how much lead and mercury it has
if the plant is graded as a D it has a ton of heavy metals if it is graded as a C there is still a ton of heavy metals but less then D if it is a B still a ton of metals but less then a C if it is a A there  is still metals then theirs an A+ A++ and A+++ A+++ has the least amount of heavy metals

lost herb empire is open with there herbs they show how much heavy metals are in there plants

they list the grade of all there plants. most are B and A and C but that just shows you how bad the situation is. i do not think those scientist would be aware of this problem no one talks about it

global warming is blamed for this. But i believe it is because of the chem trails.

conspiracy's and all

you seem to be claiming that green med info is unreliable because his views do not align with your own.

conspiracy theorist and anti modern medicine
firstly this is a very fact based opinion. the word pharmacy is derived from the word pharmakeia which means poisoning with drugs and others evil thing.
i do debates on that subject all the time

evil definitions

the word pharmakeai means

    the use or the administering of drugs
    sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
    metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

the word pharmakon means

from pharmakon (a drug)
a poisoner, sorcerer, magician
NASB Translation

i go in depth on this topic here

con seems to not get the gravity of what i am claiming with the sun and moon god literally measured both so they would be the same size from the viewpoint of earth. so that we can have perfect solar eclipses.

the sun and moon are the exact same size from the viewpoint of earth. as a result of this perfect solar eclipses are possible

Consequently, the moon and sun appear exactly the same size in Earth’s sky—making precise solar eclipses possible

i am going to try to do similar measuring to what god would have had to done. but first i need to make up some numbers up so i can show you how he did it. these are not real numbers for the sun and moon.

the sun is 10 billion feet long and from 10 billion miles from earth the sun appears to be around 7 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth.  want the sun and moon to be a perfect 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth

 The moon is 7 billion feet long and is 10 billion miles from earth and from earths viewpoint the moon appears to be 5 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth. I want the moon to  be 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth

how god would have had to measured the sun we are gong to place the sun and moon so they both appear to be the exact same size from the viewpoint of earth

the sun right now is 10 billion miles from earth and from the viewpoint of earth is 7 billion feet long.

I want the sun to be 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth.
So  i bring the sun up 2  billion miles and as a result of that the  sun appears to be 5 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth and is 12 billion from earth.
that is still not the3 billion feet long the sun is suppose to be  from the viewpoint of earth. So i need to bring it up some more.
so i  bring the the sun up another 2 billion feet. now the sun is 14 billion miles from earth and from the viewpoint of earth the sun appears to be 3 billion feet long.
3 billion feet long is the size i wanted it so i keep it there and consider my measuring done.

i placed the sun 14 miles away from earth so from the viewpoint of earth the sun would appear to be 3 billion feet long. i did this via measuring and trail and error but god would not have needed trial and error

I want the moon to appear to be 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth to.
right now the moon is 10 billion miles from earth and from the viewpoint of earth the sun appears to be 5 billion feet  long
so i move the moon up 2 billion miles now the moon is 12 billion miles and from the viewpoint of earth appears to be 3 billion feet long.
3 billion feet long i show big i wanted it so i keep it there.

i measured the sun out and placed it at 14 billion miles and because i measured it the sun appears to be 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth

i measured the Moon out and placed it 12 billion mile sand because i measured it the moon appears to be 3 billion feet long from the viewpoint of earth.

though i do not know the numbers god used.  god measured the sun and moon when placing them so they would be the same size from the viewpoint of earth.

god would have had to measure them out like this but without the trail and error.

white coloring

con did not acknowledged the intelligent choice god made when designing seasonal animals. instead he just said why did he not do this with all animals.
which is like  if i said why did god create orange trees he already had apples.

Following your argument, I could ask why God doesn’t turn all animals white during winter, instead of just weasels and rabbits

the weasel turns white during the winter

so god created the weasel white to go with the white snow.

this is an intelligent choice

this is like if i am wearing red pants so i decided to wear a red shirt to go with it

or if Santa wears red cloths so he decides to paint his sleigh red to go with it.

my first link had 7 animals like the weasel

or if i have a blue house so i decide to paint my mailbox blue to go with it

 What do you mean by our solar system being “perfectly aligned”? Our solar system consists of planets of different sizes, which spin and move at different rates

all the planets are circles even the moon are sun are circles. they all move around in a perfect oval around the sun. the planets may be different sizes but come on man life needs variety. different speeds mean nothing there pathways are exactly the same there perfect ovals. so what if there pathways differ

con says my sourcing is unreliable because there views differ from his own.
Round 3
Perfect numbers

Stephen hawking said

“the remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted”

Richard dawkins said

biology is the study of complex things that seem to have been designed for a purpose

this is taken from the source above

There are the same numbers of electrons to protons

- there is the same number of electrons as protons to a standard deviation of one in ten to the thirty-seventh power, that is, 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (37 zeros)
- the 1-to-1 electron to proton ratio throughout the universe yields our electrically neutral universe

The guy in the article talks about how perfect this is.he uses an example.” so if we were to look at all the human beings on the earth and we found out that it was exactly 50 percent to 50 percent. Not to the nearest million or thousands but exactly one man for one woman. Out of 7 billion people in the world that would freak us all out.” We would be like who is counting us. But this is the case with protons and electrons exactly one proton for one electron. So who counted them out. It was God

There is also the sun being 400 times bigger then the moon and being an exact 400 times farther away

This Below taken from this

these are the numbers needed to start life these Numbers can not be off even by an hair

* Speed of Light: c=299,792,458 m s-1
* Gravitational Constant: G=6.673 x 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2* Planck’s Constant: 1.05457148 x 10-34 m2 kg s-2
* Planck Mass-Energy: 1.2209 x 1022 MeV
* Mass of Electron, Proton, Neutron: 0.511; 938.3; 939.6 MeV
* Mass of Up, Down, Strange Quark: 2.4; 4.8; 104 MeV (Approx.)
* Ratio of Electron to Proton Mass: (1836.15)-1
* Gravitational Coupling Constant: 5.9 x 10-39
* Cosmological Constant: (2.3 x 10-3 eV)
* Hubble Constant: 71 km/s/Mpc (today)
* Higgs Vacuum Expectation Value: 246.2 GeV

Scientists have come to the shocking realization that each of these numbers have been carefully dialed to an astonishingly precise value  a value that falls within an exceedingly narrow, life-permitting range. If any one of these numbers were altered by even a hair’s breadth, no physical, interactive life of any kind could exist anywhere. There would be no stars,no planets, no chemistry, and no life. (Source:  Reasonable Faith,org)

If any of these numbers are slightly off we do no exist. These  thing were dialed with astonishing precise values. The solar system are not the only thing that have been dialed precisely. Our human body is made up of clocks. Our body has clocks that are dialed so precisely these clocks tell our body to release hormones and other chemicals that our body needs. They release these hormones as if they are aware. Our body releases a chemicals on a precise clock. An example every 8 hours your body releases a chemicals i do not know the details

I know this because wifi frequencies expert Dr. Barrie Trower talks about how 5g doom and gloom messes up these clocks. the new wifi slow kills

Also animals are made with precise numbers

These animals have 2 eyes 2 ears 1 nose 1 mouth very precise numbers













Most animals consist of 4 legs or 2 legs and 2 arms very precise numbers






Most insects have 6 8 12 or 24legs

I just described 99 percent of animals. These are precise numbers

Here is some more precise though i do not understands what it says

“Thus, most stars located between spiral arms do not remain there for long, but would eventually be swept inside a spiral arm. Only at a certain precise distance from the galaxy's center, the "co-rotation radius," can a star remain in its place between two spiral arms, orbiting at precisely the same rate as the galaxy arms rotate around the core ( Mishurov, Y.N. and L. A. Zenina. 1999. Yes, the Sun is Located Near the Corotation Circle. Astronomy & Astrophysics 341: 81-85.). Why is it important that we are not in one of the spiral arms? First, our location gives us a view of the universe that is unobstructed by the debris and gases found in the spiral arms. “