Instigator / Pro
0
1294
rating
75
debates
18.0%
won
Topic
#1421
America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1350
rating
29
debates
20.69%
won
Description
HIGHER RATES of rape murder serious injury serious injury not just a black eye mind you are nedemic in american society because the presence of guns https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts
Round 1
In the developed world, these levels of gun violence are a uniquely American problem. Here’s why.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4qUsgHa4Y liberals are wrong when they say other nations have less crime
thats wrong
what they are right about is thats guns the presence of so many guns makes a bad situation much much worse guns are rarely used for defense that is a myth 1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense
We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use. We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence. We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.
Hemenway, David. Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1997; 87:1430-1445.
Hemenway, David. The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events. Chance (American Statistical Association). 1997; 10:6-10.
Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David. The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year? Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1997; 16:463-469.https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
Hemenway, David. Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1997; 87:1430-1445.
Hemenway, David. The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events. Chance (American Statistical Association). 1997; 10:6-10.
Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David. The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year? Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1997; 16:463-469.https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
I'm not quite sure what you're saying because you're making contradicting statements to a certain degree. Yes, I agree that guns aren't used millions of times a year for self-defense in the US.
On the other hand, self-defense is not a crime to begin with because everyone has the right to protect themselves...So, now that we fully understand that self-defense is not a crime if it's warranted, then self-defense can't be introduced into this argument because it's irrelevant to the fact.
The link that you presented to the gun violence video kind of destroys your argument because the US does have more gun violence statistically. I'm not the biggest fan of statistics because statistics can be manipulated as propaganda. I want to ask you a few questions.
1. Does the US have the most school shootings?
2. Does the US have the most mass murders?
3. Do cops kill/shoot more unarmed Black people than cops in other countries?
4. Isn't suicide with a gun considered as gun violence?
If you answered no to any of the four questions, then you're completely lying.
Remember, in the past 90 days, the US had three mass murders. None of the countries that were presented in your video link had a single mass murder during that time. It gets even worse when random, inner-city gun violence is brought into the equation. Some countries don't even report gun violence to the masses because they don't necessarily have the media to do it.
When looking at developed countries, the US definitely has the most crime via gun violence as well as more crime in general because the US was founded on violence/crime.
Round 2
to re state my point crime would exist in the usa at the same rate without guns
HOWEVER the presence of guns makes the result of the crime more severe for example instead of a mugging resulting in a few bruises cuts or scraps , you get shot in the head
I see what you're saying, but I somewhat disagree because "overall crime" will always outweigh crime of a specific type. Since gun violence is a specific type, it's an addition to the crimes that are already happening.
Of course, a weapon will cause more damage than a good old fist fight. At the same time, if those guns were never used then thousands of people would be alive as we speak. If guns were never used in El Paso, Dayton etc., then there wouldn't be a need for any statistics to account for.
Gun violence only adds on to the violence that's happening and without gun violence, the crime rate would be extremely lower.
Round 3
the prevelence of guns in American society does not protect anyone it makes a bad situation so much worse Do guns make us safer? Science suggests no Conflicting statistics about guns—such as how many people in the U.S. use guns for self-defense each year, and whether or not the crime rate is tied to how many people own guns—was the subject of a recent podcast featuring David Hemenway, professor of health policy at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.
Hemenway, an expert on the public health impact of gun violence and director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, was interviewed on Science Vs, a podcast that looks at fads, trends, and opinions to uncover what’s actually true.
Hemenway noted that one commonly cited statistic about guns—that 2.5 million people use them each year to defend themselves or their property — is based on faulty analysis from a 1990s study. A more reliable source of information, the National Crime Victimization Survey, pegs the number of people who use guns in this manner at roughly 100,000, according to Science Vs podcast host Wendy Zukerman. Hemenway added that there is no good evidence that using a gun in self-defense reduces the likelihood of injury. There is some evidence that having a gun may reduce property loss, “but the evidence is equally compelling that having another weapon, such as mace or a baseball bat, will also reduce the likelihood of property loss,” he said.
Addressing gun lobby assertions that crime is deterred when more law-abiding citizens carry guns, Hemenway said the evidence says otherwise. He said that even though more and more Americans are carrying concealed guns each year—the result of more states passing ‘right-to-carry’ laws—research has not uncovered a direct cause-and-effect relationship between the prevalence of guns and the U.S. crime rate. However, he noted, the presence of more guns does make crimes more violent. “What guns do is make hostile interactions—robberies, assaults—much more deadly,” he said.
Listen to the Science Vs podcast featuring David Hemenway
Learn more
Scientists agree: Guns don’t make society safer https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/
Hemenway noted that one commonly cited statistic about guns—that 2.5 million people use them each year to defend themselves or their property — is based on faulty analysis from a 1990s study. A more reliable source of information, the National Crime Victimization Survey, pegs the number of people who use guns in this manner at roughly 100,000, according to Science Vs podcast host Wendy Zukerman. Hemenway added that there is no good evidence that using a gun in self-defense reduces the likelihood of injury. There is some evidence that having a gun may reduce property loss, “but the evidence is equally compelling that having another weapon, such as mace or a baseball bat, will also reduce the likelihood of property loss,” he said.
Addressing gun lobby assertions that crime is deterred when more law-abiding citizens carry guns, Hemenway said the evidence says otherwise. He said that even though more and more Americans are carrying concealed guns each year—the result of more states passing ‘right-to-carry’ laws—research has not uncovered a direct cause-and-effect relationship between the prevalence of guns and the U.S. crime rate. However, he noted, the presence of more guns does make crimes more violent. “What guns do is make hostile interactions—robberies, assaults—much more deadly,” he said.
Listen to the Science Vs podcast featuring David Hemenway
Learn more
Scientists agree: Guns don’t make society safer https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/
The description of your argument states "HIGHER RATES of rape murder serious injury serious injury not just a black eye mind you are nedemic in american society because the presence of guns...My reply: All crimes are endemic in American society, but it's not because of the presence of guns. The reason being is because all of these crimes have been perpetrated throughout the years without the use of guns.
Guns definitely makes it easier to pull off crimes. On the other hand, if there were no guns, then all of these crimes will still take place because they have always taken place before guns were even invented.
You said" the prevelence of guns in American society does not protect anyone it makes a bad situation so much worse. My reply: If some deranged person breaks into your house & is trying to physically harm you, then you'll be surely wishing for a gun at that point in time... Am I correct?
In conclusion, you're basing your entire argument from statistics & analytics instead of looking at things for what it is. No, I'm not a gun maniac, but it does have its place in society. "The problem isn't necessary the gun, it's more so the people who are pulling the trigger."
And that's where the government/law enforcement is 100 % failing.
at least i have the guts to try which it seems most here dont
When did a team of friends vote for me?
You would have lost the other debate without my vote. I was just protecting him from a vote bomb, which ended up not being necessary. You did very poorly in the other debate, so you lost. If you could substantiate your claims better, I would vote for you occasionally.
I don't need a team of friends to vote for me and I've never cheated to get a win...
That can't be said about u and the troll patrol.
Lol the battle of the trolls. You might actually be able to take home a win, buddy!