I'm a better rapper than Vinnie Paz
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
- Publication date
- Last updated date
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- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
I'm going to write 3 different types of rap in each round, to show you that I am better than Paz in all categories. The first will be based around flow and "alpha" persona. The second is rhymes, puns and metaphors and the third will be intellect and social consciousness etc. Meanwhile you can dispute me any way you want and I will include replies to your criticisms either within the lyrics themselves or before them.
I'm more than just
self absorbed and nuts,
cause' see my flows phat,
just like a ho that's
got an enormous butt
I forged a fuck-
-in' sword to thrust
in your organs, once
I realized you were formin' up
to swarm me, cause' I don't lack
your crew got strapped and came ta'
my turf, mal-equipped,
your whole pack of betas
couldn't assassinate the
I got the alpha flow
so now ya know
-cies at me, that's the way ta
get your ass deflated
and done away with
fast, and make sure
you wear a gas mask when playin'
my tracks, cause' they've been
known to leave elephants and giraffes sedated
ensues when the females catch a whiff of my flavor
my swags amazin'
of shit that's fascinating
that look like they belong in a pack of raisins
who the fuck
can do this stuff
with such concentration
that they rap like a buddhist up
on a mountain top during meditation
me and the forces of rap colludin' like Putin and Trump
your no match
for the flows that
my dome hatched
the style you're usin', it sucks
battling me is like getting sexually abused in the butt
damn, here's some lube in a cup
to loosen it up
you rappers ain't shit
I'll have a language banquet
and feast on insane deranged, unascertainable statements
(This is a diss I wrote to a CD member)
See, this is why excon pisses me off
I'll tear him up so bad I even rip his greed off
so how can he jew me? he's truly a loony
who'd need a pill to screw me, cause' his dick, it be soft
man, you don't get my puns do ye? You explicitly lost
the second you decided on gettin' me cross
now my lyrical guillotine goes across his neck
and his sophist rep/ is what caused his death
"man, I'm excon"
"I'm on the left, mon"
"you jew haters make me drop F bombs"
"but viagra is what I have sex on"
piss off you stupid lil' bitch, get gone
and you be you, I ain't knockin your hustle
I just wanna know why you enjoy cocks in your butt hole?
I spit the raps you little fuckers can't often rebuttal
I apologise for the late reply but please treat this as a 2-round debate from my part where Con posted both 'rap-rounds' as one Round. In reality there's nothing I have done wrong here and I encourage Con to bring new points AGAINST me in final Round but no new points supporting their case since that still should be bad conduct to do in a last Round. I was short of time and across many debates at once while being busy in real life, this ended up with me Forfeiting Round 1 but in no way at all is this a full-forfeit on my part.
A main source for my case is Wikipedia itself but let it be known I fact-checked what they said and it's all true.
I begin my case by exploring the difference between a rapper and 'one who writes what can be rapped'. At best, Pro is an amateur rapper and at worst, they are a ghost-writer for raps [https://www.freelancewriting.com/ghostwriting/what-is-a-ghostwriter/]. Paz is not just a professional because he earns money but his prestige in the rap game and quality on top of quantity mean that he thwarts whatever Pro is as a 'rapper' in any way imaginable. Vinnie Paz has been in the rap game since 1996 and was one of the founders of the label (and group) Jedi Mind Tricks(JMT) who officially produced their first album in 1997. At the time the group was purely him and Stoupe (who has worked with one of Pro's favourite rappers, Canibus). JMT, under the undying leadership of Vinnie and on-and-off leadership of Stoupe, has the following albums:
- The Psycho-Social, Chemical, Biological & Electro-Magnetic Manipulation of Human Consciousness (1997)
- Violent by Design (2000)
- Visions of Gandhi (2003)
- Legacy of Blood (2004)
- Servants in Heaven, Kings in Hell (2006)
- A History of Violence (2008)
- Violence Begets Violence (2011)
- The Thief and the Fallen (2015)
- The Bridge and the Abyss (2018)
I will now link you to full albums on YouTube of the mentioned stuff or at least a great single from it:
If you have Spotify Premium, YouTube Premium, iTunes, etc. Please search up the albums and tracks on them (available on the Wikipedia pages linked in the above list and all lists I post throughout this debate) as the production quality is insanely high with Paz on not just JMT but his AOTP, HMK and solo albums.
Full-album playlist links for JMT:
- The Psycho-Social, Chemical, Biological & Electro-Magnetic Manipulation of Human Consciousness
- Violent by Design
- Visions of Gandhi
- Legacy of Blood
- Servant in Heaven, Kings in Hell
- A History of Violence
- Violence Begets Violence
- The Thief and the Fallen
- The Bridge and the Abyss
Now, the depth of topics addressed is phenomenal, Paz addresses corruption, vegetarianism, Islamophobia, gangster mentality (both for and against it in different ways in different raps) and is doing it with the clout of others on JMT and who he unites with via Ft. tracks and therefore gets the message across to as wide an audience, but also dedicated an audience, as possible. JMT was his 'meaningful' streak for sure but not the only emotional side to him. He also expresses this via Solo albums.
Season of the Assassin (2010)
God of the Serengeti (2012)
The Pain Collector (2018)
Semi-Solo Albums (have other artists on them):
Prayer for the Assassin (2010) [collab with DJ Muggs to remix 4 songs of Season of the Assassin]
Carry On Tradition (2013)
He addresses corruption (again) but also his Depersonalisation Disorder as well as other troubles he and others may have in the songs in these albums.
In the aforementioned albums (for this entire round of debate so far) you will find that the amazing thing about Paz is that he never underdelivers. The worst songs on any JMt album were songs where Paz let the other artists take over in my honest opinion. From melody to flow to delivery to lyricism (both depth of metaphors and frequency of them) to rhyme scheme intricacy, Paz is a fucking monstrosity unleashed onto the rap game that no other artist in my eyes has come close to in terms of the actual skill level of rapping but I don't need to uphold that in this particular debate, I merely need to explain why he's superior to Pro himself at rapping.
Pro can paste some lyrics that only rhyme or flow in a particular accent or delivery but Paz doesn't need to 'write it out' he's already delivered it, this alone means Pro is hiding behind text to pose as a rapper when two elements of rap: quality of the melody and the vocal delivery (not to mention that like 40% of flow is purely in how you use your voice to do it) all have not been achieved by Pro, Paz is consistently amazing so much so that you can't find a single track where he is 'very good' (at worst) on all grounds but you can find some tracks where he isn't phenomenal, per se, on all grounds as he does very rarely dip but the rarity of it is key and is why I urge you, the reader, to listen to all albums to understand the depth of this rapper.
Army of the Pharaohs (AOTP) is his more battle-rap-focused formation with more 'gangster' type rappers (not gangsta rap as in drugs and women but GANGSTER rap as in violence and macho alpha-male vibes).
As always he is impeccable throughout but his AOTP works have the lowest percentage of Vinnie in them as he's less of a main artist than he is in JMT and Heavy Metal Kings (HMK).
HMK equally is one where Paz is not so much a main artist because it's the only group/label he's with where the main artist isn't undeniably him but equally another artist named Ill Bill.
So, while I'm going to link to them, you'll find much less depth to these raps but the delivery, flow and all that other good stuff is still just as impressive in my opinion.
AOTP albums by year:
The Torture Papers (2006)
HMK Albums by year:
Heavy Metal Kings (2011)
Black God White Devil (2017)
Both combined with playlist links:
I can pick out the 'best of each category' but the problem is he is so rarely less than god-tier that it's hard to split up his raps into what it showcases as it always showcases him in almost all categories of rap.
^ yeah, probably his 2 best (all his raps have INSANE flow though so IDK what to NOT showcase here)
^ same as with flow, except that in delivery he is probably the best of all time whereas in flow he's rivalled.
Rhyme Scheme always impeccable but not his focus (he is always willing to drop rhyme scheme complexity for superior flow and delivery).
Depth of Lyricism highlights:
^ four of many, all to say... Impeccable artist.
I begin my case by exploring the difference between a rapper and 'one who writes what can be rapped'. At best, Pro is an amateur rapper and at worst, they are a ghost-writer for raps
It's true that I don't actually have even one album or a fan base at all but I am way more than an "amateur rapper". My lyrics are clearly better than 99% of the rappers in the game and I can rap them adequately as well (Keep in mind I did all of this in one take with no sound engineering or autotune and a shitty mic)
Now, the depth of topics addressed is phenomenal, Paz addresses corruption, vegetarianism, Islamophobia, gangster mentality (both for and against it in different ways in different raps)
I have rapped about literally everything. These are my most common topics: Field Theory, Philosophy, Conspiracy Theories, Critiques of Capitalism and society in general, drugs sex and violence, metaphysics, storytelling of all types and just random insanity
I'm going to write 3 different types of rap in each round, to show you that I am better than Paz in all categories. The first will be based around flow and "alpha" persona. The second is rhymes, puns and metaphors and the third will be intellect and social consciousness.
- Pro, R1... Er... Nice third rap? What happened? ;)
So here are two playlists to albums that I fogot to post in the Round before:
With that out of the way, let's let Paz put in the dirt plain and simple:
Brutal, better flow than you, flawless delivery and those metaphors cut you deep boy...
Let's set this straight.
You come with some mumbo jumbo physics raps and think you are on Vinnie's level? What fan is going to relate to what you're saying? You could give a speech and lecture on physics and fascinate them but you waste your time rapping it? On the other hand, Vinnie enhances what could be a simple song about the feelings he has on matters and elevates it.
Let's go boy you vs Vinnie on the mic on being 'alpha':
How about you vs Vinnie on emotional deep shit?
How about the rest?
I already showed you his best of the best on flow and delivery as well as corruptions stuff but face it, there's so much platinum if not diamond tier stuff in Vinnie's stash so let's get it going:
Some more Vinnie murking you on flow:
Delivering Delivery Deficient in Deficiency (I made that up ;):