[Micro-Debate] Theoretically, The Battle Of Jutland Was A German Victory
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After 2 votes and with 8 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 2,500
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Round format:
R1 - Arguments
R2 - Rebuttals
R3 - Defence and conclusion
Definitions:
Theoretically - “In a way that relates to the theory of a subject or area of study rather than its practical application”
The Battle Of Jutland - “ The Battle of Jutland (German: Skagerrakschlacht, the Battle of Skagerrak) was a naval battle fought between Britain's Royal Navy Grand Fleet, under Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, and the Imperial German Navy's High Seas Fleet, under Vice-Admiral Reinhard Scheer, during the First World War. ” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland)
Victory - “ An act of defeating an enemy or opponent in a battle, game, or other competition”
Concession or full forfeiture is immediate loss.
argument: on one hand PRO refuted CON's claims stating that the big picture did not matter yet used the big picture argument in refuting CON's claim on goeben, CON message was more precise from the beginning to the end he was focused on the big picture. He even used one of CON's own sources and turned it against him in his objective of delivering the big picture to the audience. CON is the victor.
ARGS
It seems like the British blockade was still healthy after the battle ended. I know Pro pointed out how the Germans just wanted to destroy a portion of Great Britain's fleet, but his own source suggested that the main goal was to break the blockade. It further implied that destroying the British fleet was merely a means to an end. So, it seems obvious that breaking the British blockade was a big goal for the Germans that they did not achieve. Keep in mind that I will be weighting this point the most because both Con’s sources and Pro’s sources agree that this was the primary objective.
Also, Con suggests that the German morale had been slashed by the battle, but Pro refuted this with his own info. So I’m left with conflicting sources here, as a result, it appears that there is no clear consensus that Jutland worsened or bolstered the German morale.
Con also claimed that the German’s had been neutralized navaly after the battle, but Pro proved that the Germans were still sinking a lot of allied shipping later on in ww1. A proper rebuttal was never presented by Con on this point.
In short, the primary objective of the Germans was never achieved. Jutland was not a complete failure however, German morale appears to still be intact and Germany was also still able to harass allied shipping after the battle.
SOURCES
Pro used respectable sources of information, however they all seemed to disagree with his own conclusion. the Wikipedia article for instance fell in line with what Con was arguing if you extend the quote. Moreover, Con organized Pro's sources and demonstrated how they ultimately came to Con's conclusion. This did not happen with Con's sources though, they all seemed to point toward Con's conclusion in the end.
So the sources point will be assigned because Pro's sources fell in line with Con's end conclusion. I do appreciate Pro's effort to use respectable sources of info, however further inspection of the sources content may help Pro in the future when he selects his sources.
S AND G
Good on both sides, the abbreviation got a little confusing but it was still readable.
CONDUCT
Great job on both sides.
Why is this debate called a micro debate? Seems pretty huge to me.
3-DAY WARNING......Cay-OOOO-gah!
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>Reported Vote: Nikunj_sanghai // Mod action: Not Removed
>Points Awarded: 0:3; 3 points to CON.
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab
>Reason for Mod Action: This vote was borderline. Borderline votes are automatically ruled to be sufficient. For future reference, this vote seemed too vague. While the voter did technically weigh arguments, it was not in an adequate level of detail.
R3 SOURCES:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2016/june/jutlands-place-history
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/01/15/norm-friedmans-new-book-on-the-naval-weapons-of-world-war-i-worth-the-price-just-for-his-handling-of-jutland/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1505576.Distant_Victory
https://theconversation.com/jutland-why-world-war-is-only-sea-battle-was-so-crucial-to-britains-victory-59415
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Germany#Effects_on_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Seas_Fleet#Subsequent_operations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Germany#Effects_on_war
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/wwi/82205.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919#Sailors%27_revolt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn
Thanks again :D
Lol, no problem.
Alright, thank you. And by the way, sorry for replying at such a late time as I was pretty busy these few days.
I will try to vote on this.
Yes, but I did not expect that.
looks like oro got it
You're welcome to take it on.
Disagree,this reaffirmed British naval superiority and continued their blockade which devastated Germany
Sure, Britain took more casualties but the Royal Navy could have easily recovered