Complete omnipotence is self-refuting, and is impossible to achieve.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
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Complete Omnipotence: The ability to do anything
CON: PRO’s proof is insufficient for his case
- Logically contradictory things don’t make sense
- Create me a few legally married couples in which both individuals are legally still unmarried
- Make every organism on earth die and destroy everything that could potentially make life, then make life with everything left and nothing external, while using no powers other than those left within said substances/energies
- Create a shape that is simultaneously a circle, square, trapezoid, pentagram and a dodecagon while still maintaining all vertices/points in a 2-dimensional plane when viewed by a normal human
- Teleport me to everywhere at once while having both me and the universe permanently stationary
- Directly drive me to the square in the town when I am living in a town with no squares, without any kind of driving
- Play piano while not playing piano
- Erase all evil while being evil itself without erasing itself
- Create a stone too heavy to be lifted by itself, while still being omnipotent
- Do all things while still making the process of these things understandable by normal human logic while utilizing no wordplay and exploits
- Be limited in power and omnipotent at the same time, because if he is omnipotent, he could do this
- Give me something that said being CANNOT(cannot be null) do
- Be in real life
- Demonstrate to Seldiora all the cases above with no confusion
- Create me a few legally married couples in which both individuals are legally still unmarried, Play piano while not playing piano; Create a stone too heavy to be lifted by itself, while still being omnipotent, Erase all evil while being evil itself without erasing itself, Directly drive me to the square in the town when I am living in a town with no squares, without any kind of driving
- Make every organism on earth die and destroy everything that could potentially make life, then make life with everything left and nothing external, while using no powers other than those left within said substances/energies
- Create a shape that is simultaneously a circle, square, trapezoid, pentagram and a dodecagon while still maintaining all vertices/points in a 2-dimensional plane when viewed by a normal human
- Teleport me to everywhere at once while having both me and the universe permanently stationary
- Do all things while still making the process of these things understandable by normal human logic while utilizing no wordplay and exploits
- Be limited in power and omnipotent at the same time, because if he is omnipotent, he could do this
- Give me something that said being CANNOT(cannot be null) do
- Prevent Seldiora from entering an argument in 8/7/2020(within human date) in EVERY timeline possible
- Murdering Intelligence_06 in 8/8/2020 in EVERY timeline possible
- Erase Covid-19 within EVERY timeline possible, or making it cease to exist within every timeline possible
- Explode every single nuclear bomb in the US in EVERY timeline possible, or to prevent WW2 regardless of the timeline
- Cease to make this debate exist in every timeline possible
- I am not done, said being must to all above simultaneously without changing the past/morphing the future/altering people's memories.
- Do ___ thing at ___ time within the present
- Do ___ thing at ___ location within the present
- Do ___ thing at ___ time at ___ location within the present
- Crash a plane on July 4, 1776, within the present
- Explode an atomic bomb on August 9, 1886, within the present
- Crash a car on January 1, 1011, within the present
- Kill massive amounts of humans on the Sun, within the present, and let the being that is currently known as Intelligence_06 know it
- Create me a few legally married couples in which both individuals are legally still unmarried, Play piano while not playing piano; Create a stone too heavy to be lifted by itself, while still being omnipotent, Erase all evil while being evil itself without erasing itself, Directly drive me to the square in the town when I am living in a town with no squares, without any kind of driving
All of these can be categorized into the idea that it is impossible to simultaneously achieve A and not A at the same time. However, if you look at Schrodinger's Cat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat), if this Omnipotent entity creates a quantum moment before 50% chance of each event happening, then within that quantum theory, each event will have both A and not A happening at the same time (ex. the stone is being lifted, while being unable to be lifted). The last one is arguably the trickiest, but he could merely create four realities where: 1. there is a square 2. there is no square 3. there is driving 4. driving does not exist, then execute all four moments with 25% chance of each one happening and having us perceive the quantum moment before the next event.
- Make every organism on earth die and destroy everything that could potentially make life, then make life with everything left and nothing external, while using no powers other than those left within said substances/energies
Is this not the very idea of The Big Bang, where we have no evidence that anything could've created life before it?
- Create a shape that is simultaneously a circle, square, trapezoid, pentagram and a dodecagon while still maintaining all vertices/points in a 2-dimensional plane when viewed by a normal human
Since this is only on a two-dimensional plane, the God could easily create some kind of four dimensional figure that has all of these properties that could depend on viewing angle and which plane you extract from the fourth dimensional figure.
- Teleport me to everywhere at once while having both me and the universe permanently stationary
Is this not the very idea of teleportation in some modes of science fiction? If he recreates you in everywhere in the universe, would you not still be "stationary" and still be "teleported everywhere at once"
- Do all things while still making the process of these things understandable by normal human logic while utilizing no wordplay and exploits
This one seems very difficult, however, "exploit" in most cases is defined as "Use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way.", "Benefit unfairly from the work of (someone),", both which do not really seem to apply to what I have written. None of these rely on wordplay, but rather the idea of more advanced physics that we have not had much exposure to.
Keep in mind, for more absurdly advanced ideas, the omnipotent entity could always manipulate the definition of language and thought itself to convince us that in some way, it had fulfilled the impossible. 1+1 could equal 3 depending on the meaning of "1", "equals", and "3".
- There is at least one thing that my opponent has not disproved
- A truly omnipotent being must be able to do everything everywhere at every time.
- Total omnipotence is self-refuting.
- If I tell a theoretically omnipotent being to do both statements below:
- Give me A and only A at X moment at Y location at all timelines, within the present time and location, with 100% assuredness, while not doing anything else, with the steps understandable by the average human
- Give me B and only B at X moment at Y location at all timelines, within the present time and location, with 100% assuredness, while not doing anything else, with the steps understandable by the average human
- (X and Y must be the exact same, A and B must be fundamentally distinctive)
- Then it is not possible since these two statements are completely conflicting, so doing both would not be possible. If I am told to both do both and either, then it is not possible, consider I am both supposed to do two things and one thing at the same time, which is itself logically refuting for the average human.
- The modifiers signify that I must be received A and B at the same time, but it is also saying that I can only receive A OR B, one at a time, which is conflicting, thus not possible.
- Now, let's look at a different approach.
- If I tell such being to tell me something he/she/it/they cannot do with the logic understandable by the average person, then it also signifies that omnipotence is paradoxical and impossible.
- Suppose the being can tell me that, then he cannot do what he has just said. That means he is flawed and NOT omnipotent.
- Suppose the being is completely omnipotent, then there is nothing he can't do. Thus, he CANNOT answer this question, meaning he is still NOT omnipotent.
- Due to that in both cases, it is impossible to fulfill all the claims, thus it is impossible to be omnipotent.
Good debate.
PRO's introduction was basically saying that omnipotence is impossible, because you can't achieve something without achieving it. He provides several examples, which don't serve as strong evidence, but are strong enough to support his claim. CON initially tries to counter this claim by stating that omnipotence is beyond our scope of science, which is a very weak argument in nature. Then CON refutes PRO's argument by replying to most, if not all of PRO's examples. CON uses Schrodinger's Cat as an example of a thing in two states of nature. The problem with CON's arguments, is that CON needs to prove that everything that PRO states can be done realistically with an omnipotent being. CON could've easily said that omnipotence is not a thing that is greatly studied by humans, therefore omnipotence doesn't have to be in the realistic realm of things. But somehow, he went with a brute-force method of only refuting the examples. Therefore ARGUMENT GOES TO PRO.
CON forfeited that is bad conduct.
Vote.
crap ran out of time