Your definition for Christianity may not be Biblical and should therefore not be called Christianity
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After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
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As I've spent more time getting acquainted with debate art. I find myself, on both sides, seeing arguments for or against Christianity that are not actually Christianity. I'm specifically saying, core tenants of the faith. To specify one, Jesus is not a created being.
To those interested in having this conversation, here's the premise I'll lay out:
The person engaging will outline their definition of what Christianity is. Basically, what are Christians required to do and believe to call themselves a Christian? We can save the optional stuff for another debate (e.g. baptism).
My burden upon the outlining of the other person is to use a Biblically based argument to show that the statistically observed lean towards incorrect assumptions (based on my observations, I'm not trying to be presumptuous!) are in fact incorrect. The fact that many, many Christians have the correct definition (I'm trying my best through constant study to be one of them) and this is the full motivation of adding the words 'may not be' in my title. To just show i don't think I have some unique view or special understanding. Not at all.
If I agree at the outset, awesome! Sorry to have wasted your time. I've done this only a few times with people, but have yet to find an area that we couldn't discuss.
I'm not looking to set something up to ridicule and try and puff my ego through some forced, unfair "victory". How silly and what a waste of both our time. If I'm making opinion based arguments, I fail.
Thus, we must assume the Christian worldview for this discussion. For example, but how do you know God exists, isn't a relevant question for the purpose of this.
If you're a professing Christian, I'd think you'd want to confirm if you're in line with Jesus' teachings. I sure do. If im misunderstanding, what a great way to surface it! It's something I personally do with those I trust who follow Jesus with my own theological understanding all of the time.
If you're not Christian, I just hope to better target the objections and arguments raised against Christianity for future discussions. I think there are some really good arguments and points of conflict out there and I want to explore them. I just feel bogged down by the incorrect assumption discussions mid theological debate across topics.
Just to mention that we don’t base ourselves only on the Bible but also on the experiences and writings of the holy fathers and the saints.
What is meant by believe in Jesus and you will be saved? None of us believe that we’ll be saved just because we believe in Jesus. You work for you salvation. Which doesn’t mean that we think we are saved by our works but by God’s grace.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried. And the third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; Whose Kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the prophets.
In one Holy, Catholic (meaning including a wide variety of things; all-embracing), and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism (in our case christening)for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
This symbol is a prayer in which the basics of the faith are laid out. In the early church days there were a lot of heretic claims, one of which was the origins of Jesus. On the first universal council in Nicaea in 325 the issue of whether Jesus was born or created was discussed because of Arius’ claims that He was created which the council deemed heresy. On the second universal council in Constantinople in 381 the Holiness of the Holy Spirit was discussed. Both councils were summoned because of the issue of heresy, which caused a lot of turmoil between the believers and led some of them astray. The symbol hasn’t been changed since.
The sacrament is established by Christ himself after His resurrection. He commanded the apostles : Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” Matthew 28:19 NIV.
I don’t know if Jesus had original sin or not, never thought about it and I never found such information on the orthodox sources. All I know is He never sinned.
“what if someone is baptized then immediately murdered before they can sin again” – we have a sacrament called “confession”, you go to the priest you have chosen to be your confessor, you confess in the church in front of Jesus’ image, prayers are read and by faith that you will be forgiven you are forgiven, so tha't an option, you don't have to die immediately lol. John the Baptist only baptized with water in the name of the one who was to come.
“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21 NIV
“As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” Jacob 2:26 NIV
As I tried to explain. I'm trying something a little different. There isn't an option for this so I'm just trying to be clear in the description. I'm not at all forcing anyone. I've gotten really good engagement from multiple people and they've understood why I did it this way after we got going.
If you're very strict on the debate style then please, just hang out and watch if interested in the topic. I also should say that if we fail to come to a good understanding of terms or to pull a truly concise conflict statement out, I take the full burden due to this set up and will concede the debate. If you're someone who thinks this is a cheap win for you then just hang out and watch if interested. The only way I feel I deserve to have a vote for my position is if, at the end, the opposing side feels they understand this weird set up, we indeed pull a point out that my title refers to, I've shown that to be in error, and (importantly) basically says yeah I get it, I concede. Otherwise by all means please take the win. The burden falls to me and my setup.
Since I am getting engagement, and very good conversations too I might add, I don't really want to abandon this. Just refine my description for clarity.
You bear the BoP so I don't think just asking questions is a good idea. You are supposed to defend your idea.
Yeah. I need to do a better job in the description but i see it this way.
If, as has happened in a few of these, we quickly engage on a specific topic, id suppose the voting would go in favor of who best debated from that point on.
It's a little different starting with a vague premise then using the first round or two to set terms.
If someone is very in the model of the truest sense of debate in terms of argument flow and final weighing of points discussed, then probably not the debate to take.
For those that tend to end up more so having a discussion which often times ends up more vague at the end anyway. As a ton that I ive engaged in do. Then my hope is this weird start can actually help focus the further rounds.
Otherwise I've noticed we try to cover half of Christian theology, very deeply, all at the same time and only in a few rounds. Not really that do-able if the topic has any depth. Most do.
I'll work to refine my description. I've offended and set off more than one person without intention. But I don't want to stop this avenue of discussion all together as I've gotten into some really, really solid focused discussions this way.
This is a kind of truism. Yes, the contender's definition of Christianity MAY be wrong biblically. There is always a chance.