Instigator / Pro
4
1417
rating
158
debates
32.59%
won
Topic
#2480

pedophilia is not immoral

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Safalcon7
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
5,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
7
1569
rating
12
debates
66.67%
won
Description

Pedophilia: sexual feelings directed toward children.

Let me show you how it’s done

PRO P1: Pedophilia = illness, illness isn't inherently immoral.

This is PRO's strongest point. CON does an okay job of dismantling it in R2 - stating that "...pedophilia is hardly any disorder...", and that but this is weakened by PRO's interpretation of their sixth source, "Neural correlates of moral judgment in pedophilia". (See Sources segment.) CON does not pick up on this in their final round, and the point is dropped in slight favour of CON - who uses their seventh source to drive home the concept that "The medicalization of a condition clearly does not preclude its moral evaluation...".

PRO P2: Pedophilia = thought, can't arrest people based on intent alone.

This point was somewhat poorly done - in PRO's first round, they approach upon the idea of an Orwellian future - being arrested for 'thoughtcrime'. CON slams this argument quite well in their R2 - questioning the relevance of illegality in a debate regarding morality - and PRO doesn't discuss the point at all in R2. Strongly in favour of CON.

[CON put a great deal of effort into proving that emotions or feelings can be immoral, and thus I've surmised their argument into a single point for brevity.]

CON P1: Emotions and feelings aren't exempt from questions of morality, and therefore pedophilia is immoral.

PRO's response to this is insufficient.

1. "con's study focuses on affirming what most people think is immoral" - per definition of "immoral", "...generally or traditionally held moral principles.", immorality is based on "what most people think is immoral".
2. "Clearly, ADHD can't be immoral if the problem is the solution..." - not clear what the rebuttal here actually is, and the "(If you get what I mean)" isn't especially strong rhetoric.
3. "So pedophiles have much less choice than the average person, which con is arguing about." This is the strongest rebuttal to CON's point, and it's sort of touched on in R3, "The point is, con needs to directly note why the thought is immoral in itself.", but ultimately it's on PRO to prove that pedophilia ISN'T immoral, and this simply isn't done.

Overall:

- The tie between pedophilia and other medical disorders was tenuous. Homosexuality was considered a disorder once upon a time, and it is statement of fact that it was considered to be immoral at that time too - at even into the modern age in some parts of the world.
- The 'thoughtcrime' angle was a serious error on the part of PRO.
- The concept that a thought alone is above moral consideration was the main point of contention - but given the definition of immoral as "conflicting with generally or traditionally held moral principles", it's hard to see how PRO could have gained ground here.

Misc. Notes:

- Was an uphill battle for PRO, and with respect to the topic at hand they managed pretty well.
- To both sides - read your sources, please. PRO, the MentalHealth.net site had a section specifically about Sexual Disorders that would have made for a better source. CON, I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted Source 6, and there are some claims in your argument that directly contradict Source 2.
- Best of luck to both of you with the other voters!

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@Kbub530

Thanks.

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@Safalcon7

Nice job! I particularly enjoyed the William James reference.

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@Intelligence_06

Or at least that's my intuition.

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@Intelligence_06

Danger can exist without choice. Immorality cannot.

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@Username

Then weapons are not dangerous, because you have every reason to not use it.

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@Intelligence_06

I actually think pro can easily win here given the definition he provided for the debate.

Per his definition, "pedophilia" is only a feeling. Feelings aren't immoral by themselves, they're completely uncontrollable.

In this case, pedophilia is so gruesomely immoral because the action is so harmful. The feeling isn't - of course it could become immoral if you don't get proper treatment for it.

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@Fruit_Inspector

If I am not literally arriving on a plane like 15 hours later, I would accept this one and possibly win because Con has much more stuff to work with, common common sense.

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@Intelligence_06

With the moral state of the current culture, I'm not so sure...

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@seldiora

Yeah, I don't think you have a large margin to win this one.