Fascism is a right wing ideology
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After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
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- 3
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- 30,000
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- One week
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- Multiple criterions
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"The Fascist conception of life accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with the State. . . . Fascism reasserts the rights of the state. If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government" [1]- From "Doctrine of Fascism" by Benito Mussolini
"We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!" [2]- Gregor Strasser
- https://bit.ly/2MFURNO
- https://bit.ly/2OLSh6k
- https://bit.ly/1Ubzj6E
- https://bit.ly/2BuTfCg
- https://bit.ly/2MoqzjE (scholar work)
- https://bit.ly/2PrOJY7 (Journal essay)
- https://bit.ly/2N55ZRr
"The true defining characteristics of the two is collectivism and egalitarianism (left) VS privatization and an "every man for himself" mentality (right)".
"Collectivism, term used to denote a political or economic system in which the means of production and the distribution of goods and services are controlled by the people as a group. Generally this refers to the state" [1].-Definition by Armstrong Economics
"By the 1907 Act the government nationalized most of the lines and networks managed by private firms, and took over the two most important private concessionaires in Italy: the Società generali italiana dei telefoni e applicazioni elettriche, and the Società telefonica alta Italia" [2].-Germe Bel, Barcelona Graduate School of Economics
"Fascism is a highly stratified system. It is actually the farthest right you can get just like Anarcho-capitalism. The difference between the two is that Anarcho-capitalism is 100% libertarian and fascism is 100% authoritarian."
"Fascists always lie and claim to either be socialists or Marxists when they are demonstrably the opposite. The reason they do this is so that they can gain the support of the masses with false promises and weasel their way into power."
- https://bit.ly/2LigFuc
- https://bit.ly/2MppfwK (graduate work)
- https://bit.ly/1KBj4sO
- https://tinyurl.com/y9wbb9bo
"We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!" [2]- Gregor Strasser
In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany, an enemy he often mentions in Mein Kampf. During the trial for his involvement in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism".[102] Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their use in Mein Kampf:In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.[103]Later in his seminal tome, Hitler advocated for "the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms."[104] According to Hitler, Marxism was a Jewish strategy to subjugate Germany and the world and saw Marxism as a mental and political form of slavery.[105] From Hitler's vantage point, Bolsheviks existed to serve "Jewish international finance."[106] When the British tried negotiating with Hitler in 1935 by including Germany in the extension of the Locarno Pact, he rejected their offer and instead assured them that German rearmament was important in safeguarding Europe against communism,[107] a move which clearly showed his anti-communist proclivities.[108]
In 1939, Hitler told the Swiss Commissioner to the League of Nations, Carl Burckhardt, that everything he was undertaking was "directed against Russia" and continued with, "if those in the West are too stupid or too blind to understand this, then I shall be forced to come to an understanding with the Russians to beat the West, and then, after its defeat, turn with all my concerted force against the Soviet Union."[109] When Hitler finally ordered the attack against the Soviet Union, it was the fulfillment of his ultimate goal and the most important campaign in his estimation, as it comprised a struggle of "the chosen Aryan people against Jewish Bolsheviks."[110]
Biographer Alan Bullock avows, Hitler "laid great stress" on the need to concentrate on a single enemy, an enemy he lumps together as "Marxism and the Jew."[111]Shortly in the wake of the Commissar Order, a directive pursuant to the German invasion of the Soviet Union, SS Deputy Reinhard Heydrich informed the SS of Hitler's geopolitical philosophy, which conflated Bolshevism and Jews, writing "eastern Jewry is the intellectual reservoir of Bolshevism and in the Führer's view must therefore be annihilated."[112] Considering the eventual Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union (Operation Barbarossa), no additional inducements are really requisite concerning Hitler's hatred of communism, particularly since the Nazi persecution and extermination of these groups was not only systematic, but it was extensive both within Germany and only intensified in the occupied zones during the war under Hitler's leadership.[113]
Because Nazism co-opted the popular success of communism among working people while simultaneously promising to destroy communism and offer an alternative to it, Hitler's anti-communist program allowed industrialists with traditional conservative views (tending toward monarchism, aristocracy, and laissez-faire capitalism) to cast their lot with, and help underwrite, the Nazi rise to power.[114][115]
"The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism" [1].
"any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods" [2].-Merriam Webster
"As value is but the embodiment of socially necessary labour, commodities exchange with each other in proportion to the labour quanta they contain. This is true for the exchange of iron against wheat, as it is true for the exchange of iron against gold or silver. Marx’s theory of money is therefore in the first place a commodity theory of money. A given commodity can play the role of universal medium of exchange, as well as fulfil all the other functions of money, precisely because it is a commodity, i.e. because it is itself the product of socially necessary labour" [3]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Anti-capitalism
- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
- https://www.ernestmandel.org/en/works/txt/1990/karlmarx/6.htm
I don't usually give the Conduct vote to the one forfeited against because I think it's not bad conduct to forfeit and not good conduct to get forfeited against but in this case I will. The reason I give the Conduct vote is that Pro, clearly with forethought, saved more arguments for the last Round of debate than the entire 2 rounds above. Additionally, I know for a fact that Pro was not inactive on the site during the time he had to post Round 2. Posting so much new content in the last Round is not damning in my eyes since Con is the second one to argue and has a chance to retort but it's extremely poor conduct because now Con can't bring new points or evidence against you without looking like the bad guy themselves (since you, Pro won't get a chance to fight back).
I will also give sources to Con because all were extremely reliable and used in severely relevant ways to the case he made. Pro embedded by copying and pasting pre-made hyperlinks that link you to a pre-typed Reference on Wikipedia and only about 2 of them was actually relevant to proving that Nazism directly opposed Marxism which still doesn't mean it could be a form of Centrist or left-wing politics that differed to Marxism. These sources were not even all that reliable in and of themselves and the reliable ones were the ones that proved something about Nazism that wasn't to do with the resolution in my opinion.
Pro did a very good job ignoring conduct (he was also rude in a couple places on top of the post-order conduct) at proving that Fascism stands against Libertarianism and Marxism but never once explained how this forces it to not be centrist and/or something beyond the wing dichotomy (he didn't ever specify what the wing dichotomy was only what it wasn't). Con wins because Pro proved 2 things that were not directly the resolution and because Con successfully turned back on Pro the fact that Stalin used Fascist means to stay in power and said that it is actually the Nazis and Italians and such who used Socialist policies and masked it as right-wing and not the other way around. This was really interesting because it conceded the overlap and flipped the narrative.
Pro does a good job fighting it back in Round 3 but never explains why Fascism is inherently right-wing because he never explains what it is to be right-wing the entire debate (only what it is not).
Sorry, meant to add the arguments vote on top of the other 2 but I doubt severely that the one I voted for is going to lose. If you do lose let me know and I'll get the admin to add the 3 points. Otherwise I do not want to hassle him.
ok, thanks
In the future, link this in your debates, it enables people to screen your URL in a safe manner.
http://www.cekpr.com/decode-short-url/
I use URL-shorteners. Idk, it is an old habit of mine from DDO.
One thing I don't like about the sourcing of Con is it requires trust. He could be linking to porn or a virus for all we know based on the URL.
This is the first debate where Type1 has genuinely impressed me even though he forfeited as per usual. He's improving, I like it.
Edit in "Observation": My opponent asserts that Fascism is a right wing form of government*
However you want lol.
What about the formatting? How does it go?
Yes, I will accept you as an opponent. Just post whenever you're ready, my schedule is loose. I will initiate the first round some time today.
Okay, I guess that is reasonable. How does your schedule look like? Would you be willing to accept me as your opponent?
Also you can argue that it's left wing or that it's neither, or even that it can be both. As long as you're arguing against the notion that it is right wing.
In my view the whole burden of proof thing is usually just a cop out from defending your position so in most cases (such as this one) I would say burden of proof is equal.
Edit: Left-wing ideology*
I would be willing to accept this debate, but I would like to know where the burden of proof lies. Is it the contender's BoP to prove that fascism is a right-wing ideology, or can the contention purport that the ideology is neither left or right? That would be my take on this topic.