Instigator / Con
Benjamin's avatar
14
Benjamin
1740
rating
56
debates
73.21%
won
Topic
#2711

The mind is obsolete

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
6
0
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
2
1

After 2 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Benjamin
Tags
Philosophy
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
vishnu_2006's avatar
7
vishnu_2006
1483
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Description

Pros burden of proof: Science has made the mind obsolete and is able to provide a replacement
Cons burden of proof: The scientific replacement for a mind is either nonexistent, far worse or self-contradictory

Only 10 000 characters - no more

Assumptions and rules:
- Science has not disproven or favoured pure atheism or theism
- Concepts exist only within a mind or the replacement
- Both Pro and Con has a mind or something similar
- Science has not and cannot prove the mind to be nonexistent
-Otr means "or the alternative" and refers to what will be inserted instead of the mind

Definitions:
- Mind = What makes a living human different from a zombie copy.
- Brain = what zombies like to eat, and what my opponent does not have.
- Apologies for the joke
- Concept = an abstract idea that is not physical
- Experience = how the mind (otr) perceives reality

Round 1
Benjamin's avatar
Benjamin
Con
#1
I think therefore I am:
This is how humans have proved their existence for the last couple of thousands of years. I, in this case, is the mind
The mind is the only thing we can know for sure exists since if it did not exist we would not question its existence.

What is the mind?
Philosophy has tried to answer it many times but never agreed on a definitive answer.
So far we have only learned about its attributes:
  • Concepts exist only within the mind
  • Our mind experiences both itself and the surroundings
  • Consciousness provides the mind with information about the surroundings
  • The mind is what makes us observe things
  • Whatever the mind observes, we call a fact (for example, we have a body)
  • The mind is the only thing we have full insight into.
  • The mind is me
A very dominant idea that both atheists and theists have agreed upon is that the mind is not material. I want to prove that this is still the only logical conclusion.


Why is it important to keep this idea?
Since the mind is me, it should be obvious why it is important for myself to keep existing.
The mind is an outside observer looking at what we call reality through the lens of consciousness.
Me cannot even claim me does not exist without existing thus making the claim false.

  1. If me is material, it cannot support concepts.
  2. If concepts do not exist, humans cannot think.
  3. If humans cannot think, they cannot think that me is material.

Morality is built upon the idea that mind is different from matter.
It is immoral to destroy matter which is under the control of another mind but not immoral to destroy matter not controlled by another mind.
It is not immoral for pure matter to destroy matter. It is not immoral for ice to destroy a mountain.
vishnu_2006's avatar
vishnu_2006
Pro
#2
Forfeited
Round 2
Benjamin's avatar
Benjamin
Con
#3
Extend
vishnu_2006's avatar
vishnu_2006
Pro
#4
I think you are wrong.  
through my research, I have found that nothing can defeat the mind in thinking, controlling, and the other things the mind can do.
 
But the mind can be obsolete by 5000.
but now the mind is not obsolete in 2021.

Round 3
Benjamin's avatar
Benjamin
Con
#5
Victory then!

vishnu_2006's avatar
vishnu_2006
Pro
#6
Forfeited
Round 4
Benjamin's avatar
Benjamin
Con
#7
Extend
vishnu_2006's avatar
vishnu_2006
Pro
#8
the answer to" what is mind"?
answer: The mind is the set of faculties including cognitive aspects such as consciousness, imagination, perception, thinking, intelligence, judgement, language, and memory, as well as noncognitive aspects such as emotion and instinct.

nothing in the world can defeat the human mind.
Round 5
Benjamin's avatar
Benjamin
Con
#9
I won, my opponent admitted it.
vishnu_2006's avatar
vishnu_2006
Pro
#10
I am so sorry that it is my first debate and I don't know much about debates and how to debate.